snow white Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 Pity those coppers that where on the scene when lee rigby was killed didn’t shoot to kill now we are keeping the two ******* in prison and giving them compassion for getting beat up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 I was literally just around the corner when this happened - Heard a handful of shots at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, Fatcatsplat said: I was literally just around the corner when this happened - Heard a handful of shots at best That's really interesting, which could suggest as others have said the cops shot simultaneously into the terrorist, what you reckon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: That's really interesting, which could suggest as others have said the cops shot simultaneously into the terrorist, what you reckon? It was a handful of cracks - Didn't sound like automatic gunfire. I was in the courtyard of a pub on the north side of the bridge and remember hearing the cracks and then suddenly everywhere went mad with police cars, ambulances and running people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bavarianbrit Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 6 hours ago, toontastic said: You mean let them detonate on a crowded bus just to confirm it's a real bomb. I think you misunderstood my meaning because the police normally attend non bomber driven events and they seem to shoot to kill and never just to wound/disable to de-escalate the situation hence my cynical chair leg comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, bavarianbrit said: I think you misunderstood my meaning because the police normally attend non bomber driven events and they seem to shoot to kill and never just to wound/disable to de-escalate the situation hence my cynical chair leg comment. Why do you say that, they shoot to stop the threat, which is a centre mass body shot, which unfortunately often kills to, but since they only shoot when there is an immanent threat to life, what else can they do? The only time they shoot to the head is when there is a threat that shooting to stop could result in loss of life, like a bomber with a trigger, or if a shot to centre mass is not viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Scully said: You don’t detonate explosives by firing rounds into it. True for commercial explosive, the type they are cooking up is known to be very volatile and could easily be detonated by a bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, ordnance said: True for commercial explosive, the type they are cooking up is known to be very volatile and could easily be detonated by a bullet. Really? Ah well, in that case in future it might be best practise to wait til they’re close enough to taser, or whack with a baton? 🤷♂️ Just out of interest, what do you suggest the officers on the bridge should have done, or others in future should do, when confronted by some barm pot rolling around on the pavement claiming to be wearing a suicide vest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Scully said: Really? Ah well, in that case in future it might be best practise to wait til they’re close enough to taser, or whack with a baton? 🤷♂️ Just out of interest, what do you suggest the officers on the bridge should have done, or others in future should do, when confronted by some barm pot rolling around on the pavement claiming to be wearing a suicide vest? They should have done what they did, shot until they were sure he was dead while hoping he did not have a bomb, or was able to denote a bomb if he had one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangolin Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Scully said: Really? Ah well, in that case in future it might be best practise to wait til they’re close enough to taser, or whack with a baton? 🤷♂️ Just out of interest, what do you suggest the officers on the bridge should have done, or others in future should do, when confronted by some barm pot rolling around on the pavement claiming to be wearing a From a safe distance with an appropriate backstop. DistantWildFishingcat-mobile.mp4 Edited June 2, 2021 by Pangolin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, ordnance said: They should have done what they did, shot until they were sure he was dead while hoping he did not have a bomb, or was able to denote a bomb if he had one. Grand. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 57 minutes ago, Scully said: Really? Ah well, in that case in future it might be best practise to wait til they’re close enough to taser, or whack with a baton? 🤷♂️ Just out of interest, what do you suggest the officers on the bridge should have done, or others in future should do, when confronted by some barm pot rolling around on the pavement claiming to be wearing a suicide vest? A tazer could theoretically activate a device. The best thing to do is therfore stick a load of rounds in the subjects brain aimed at a certain spot to sever the connection between the brain and spinal cord, which will prevent them detonating the device. Which is what I assume they did. It's not too dissimilar to destroying an animal, just without the luxury of having time and the correct ammunition ect. Which is usually made up for with multiple shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: A tazer could theoretically activate a device. The best thing to do is therfore stick a load of rounds in the subjects brain aimed at a certain spot to sever the connection between the brain and spinal cord, which will prevent them detonating the device. Which is what I assume they did. It's not too dissimilar to destroying an animal, just without the luxury of having time and the correct ammunition ect. Which is usually made up for with multiple shots. I wasn’t serious regarding the taser or the baton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, Scully said: I wasn’t serious regarding the taser or the baton. 😂 Sorry mate, hard to get sarcasm on here sometimes, particularly with some of the armchair experts who like to criticise anything the police do without giving a credible explanation of how it could be done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: A tazer could theoretically activate a device. The best thing to do is therfore stick a load of rounds in the subjects brain aimed at a certain spot to sever the connection between the brain and spinal cord, which will prevent them detonating the device. Which is what I assume they did. It's not too dissimilar to destroying an animal, just without the luxury of having time and the correct ammunition ect. Which is usually made up for with multiple shots. And hope they haven't thought of that. Quote Brian Corcoran said parts of a pipe bomb and pressure-cooker bomb — including a dead man’s switch, a circuit board and a homemade remote control— were found on a residential street in Watertown after the Tsarnaevs had a violent confrontation with police. A dead man’s switch is typically used to detonate an explosive device if the operator is killed or incapacitated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 42 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: A tazer could theoretically activate a device. The best thing to do is therfore stick a load of rounds in the subjects brain aimed at a certain spot to sever the connection between the brain and spinal cord, which will prevent them detonating the device. Which is what I assume they did. It's not too dissimilar to destroying an animal, just without the luxury of having time and the correct ammunition ect. Which is usually made up for with multiple shots. That might not work as well as you hope as tonic activity may be a problem. I've never shot a person so can only go with my experience with animals. So my advice to the cops with guns in this situation would be keep shooting and hope for the best. As far as I can see that is all they can do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, bavarianbrit said: the police normally attend non bomber driven events and they seem to shoot to kill and never just to wound/disable to de-escalate the situation Wow? Really? On a shooting forum? You do not use lethal force in a non-lethal manner. ‘Shoot to kill’ is pure Hollywood - it’s never said because everyone knows that there is no such thing as (deliberately) shooting to wound or disable. As someone who goes shooting, this should be known to you. This forum comes up with some belters occasionally, but this thread takes the cake. Although admittedly, most posts on this thread appear to be supportive of the police response, and moreover recognise that a deer stalk bares very little relation to this scenario. An ARV carries a team of four – so 20/4 =5 shots each, of a suspected suicide bomber, and all were on target? Where exactly is the problem? 22 hours ago, oscarsdad said: the general public with no experience (or understanding or explosives according to this thread) should not be criticising them. Of course you can, but you might at least base your comments on something other than Call of Duty or the oeuvre of Bruce Willis. You’ll sound like far less of a plank. As for the JC DeMenzes argument – what exactly would you charge them with @ordnance Following procedure? They were told that a confirmed suicide bomber had got onto a train and they were authorised to 'disable' him. The fact that he had been mis-identified as such, was a massive f-up, but charging the team who pulled the trigger is very wrong. In case it wasn’t obvious, procedure is not that you give a suicide bomber a chance to detonate. It wasn’t widely shown on UK news, but an actual (would be) suicide bomber had been disabled in Spain the week before – the bomb squad had to disable the device on the body of the wearer, after they'd shot him. If you must charge someone, charge the senior officer who gave the authorisation on that day, based on poor recce/intel. One Cressida ****. What became of her I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumfelter Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 It's a shame the bloke with the narwhal tusk didn't go for the head instead of centre mass, could have saved the police a job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: 😂 Sorry mate, hard to get sarcasm on here sometimes, particularly with some of the armchair experts who like to criticise anything the police do without giving a credible explanation of how it could be done better. 😀👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 Quote As for the JC DeMenzes argument – what exactly would you charge them with @ordnance Following procedure? They made the decision to pull the trigger, they were not ordered to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 17 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: The fact that he had been mis-identified and there we have the real culprit responsible for this lad being shot to pieces some half wit identified him as a bomber so said half wit should face the full consequences for his failure or nobody’s child is safe wearing a ruck sack on the tube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 Bit late to this thread but.. I would imagine properly shot certainly would do the job, however they seldom get the time for a proper shot. It’s a double tap to the centre target / body mass which is usually fatal anyway. If there was 5 officers that's 4 taps each to hit 20, all sent there to neutralise the threat. So they did what they are trained to do. But they discharged their weapons so it have to now do the paperwork etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 51 minutes ago, ordnance said: They made the decision to pull the trigger, they were not ordered to. I said authorised, not ordered. In any case, you've completely ignored my question, what would you charge them with? 45 minutes ago, clangerman said: and there we have the real culprit responsible for this lad being shot to pieces some half wit identified him as a bomber so said half wit should face the full consequences for his failure Dragged before a public inquiry? Interrogated by QCs? Hounded by the press? Again, same question, what prey tell would you charge him with? Mis-identifying someone isn't a crime. 47 minutes ago, clangerman said: or nobody’s child is safe wearing a ruck sack on the tube Oh please, that's what you worry about when your beloved first born goes to the big city? Because it's happened so many times before and since. Not the fact he's orders of magnitude more likely to die from an actual terrorist attack? Or even a traffic accident, or some scrote pushing him under tube train? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) Quote I said authorised, not ordered. In any case, you've completely ignored my question, what would you charge them with? Murder. Edited June 2, 2021 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, ordnance said: Murder. I shouldn't bite, but I will. What about Cressida ****, who authorised the procedure? What about Clangerman's intel guy who mis-identified him? Murder all round? Ever heard of guilty beyond all reasonable doubt? The officers truly believed they were dealing with a postively id'd suicide bomber and followed the authorised procedure. If that results in a murder charge in your universe, well good luck making that stick in the real world. And following that, good luck getting serving police officer to volunteer for firearms duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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