That was a great success then........

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

Of course, yet again, "one rule for us....one rule for you".

Other news reports say the PM will be isolating at Chequers.  Chancellor also said to be self isolating.

[12gauge82]

44 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I've not seen that one mentioned before,  but if it's TRUE then it's very worrying,  4 days in an over worked NHS ward could flash by in the blink of an eye.

Is it really? 

A meteor could wipe the entire planet out tomorrow and there'd be nothing anyone could do. 

I think people need to get a grip of themselves, all this fear mungering by government and the media is irrational. 

[Mice!]

17 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Is it really? 

A meteor could wipe the entire planet out tomorrow and there'd be nothing anyone could do. 

I think people need to get a grip of themselves, all this fear mungering by government and the media is irrational. 

I've watched Armageddon we'll be fine.

So you don't think having a 4 day window if your hospitalised is worrying?

Like I said I hadn't heard of it mentioned before. 

Change of plan, they've realised they can put their feet up for a few days.

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I've watched Armageddon we'll be fine.

So you don't think having a 4 day window if your hospitalised is worrying?

Like I said I hadn't heard of it mentioned before. 

Change of plan, they've realised they can put their feet up for a few days.

I don't think a 4 day window is worrying really no. No more worrying than getting killed in a car crash with no warning at all. Or getting electricuted by a toaster.

 

At the end of the day, if your alive, something one day will kill you, that is one of the only 100% certaintys we will ever have. We've isolated and vaccinated as much of the population as we can, now is the time to get on with it and accept it as another one of life's risks. 

[Mungler]

I’ve not heard of this 4 day window and remain skeptical - it smacks of every other second hand mate’s aunt’s dog who works in the NHS says story. Indeed, the amount of ‘mate’s aunt’s dogs who say their ward is full of otherwise fit dying 19 year olds’ and yet that is just not made out by the published ONS stats or admission figures.

If this 4 day ‘thing’ is true, I bet if you looked into the detail it only applies to those over 85 years of age admitted to hospital or those of an age where every day is a gift.

Anyone well and under 50 has more chance of choking to death on the prevailing fear and panic.

Oh and here are those stats again. 

Please do bear in mind that we are a population of 70,000,000.

.

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Mungler

[Mungler]

Oh and looky here, just found this on the ONS webby.

Tells you pretty much all you need to know.

.

[ordnance]

Quote

 it smacks of every other second hand mate’s aunt’s dog who works in the NHS says story. Indeed, the amount of ‘mate’s aunt’s dogs who say their ward is full of otherwise fit dying 19 year olds’ and yet that is just not made out by the published ONS stats or admission figures.

I have missed that, who is saying the wards are full of fit 19 year olds dying. 

[Mungler]

On 17/07/2021 at 15:35, LeedsZeppelin said:

I have a relative who is an A&E nurse. She has seen more than her fair share of deaths recently. She recently told me of a 19 year old with COVID who is unlikely to come out of hospital alive. She had no underlying health problems.

 

21 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I have missed that, who is saying the wards are full of fit 19 year olds dying. 

Plenty of similar anecdotes on other threads on this site (and on Facey). 

[figgy]

There will always be the exception to the rule, where by a youngster will die of covid but not as likely to happen as to an elderly or to a person with underlying health problems.

I've heard of people dying who looked perfectly healthy, who knows if they had other undiagnosed problems that caused their death from covid.

I really don't see a problem, get jabbed wear a mask don't wear a mask stay in or go out. No one is forcing you either way. Make your choice and live with it.

I am not the only one sick to the back teeth of people whining and moaning about what could have should have happened. Like hearing idiots after a football game telling how the manager should done this that or the other, all experts.

We have to live with this like or not.

 

[ordnance]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

 

Plenty of similar anecdotes on other threads on this site (and on Facey). 

 

All i have seen is the opposite, very few young people are dying from CV.

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

 

All i have seen is the opposite, very few young people are dying from CV.

Indeed. That’s the point. If we look at the official stats we ought to be able to sift fact from hysteria. 

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Indeed. That’s the point. If we look at the official stats we ought to be able to sift fact from hysteria. 

Facts tell us that we are losing old people and frail/ill people, what else do we need? "You've had a great life, sorry but you are either locked up or dead, okay?" 

Government are not throwing granny under the bus, so why not? They have the dosh, houses, clogging up old folks homes and the NHS, and on top of that taxable stuff lots of money in state pensions could be freed up too, why are they not doing it? Beats me, either the Tories have bottled it or there is the possibility that by going all out back to normal, vaccine or not, it's probably just a bad flu mentality that it could mutate badly and win. I hope it isn't but would you be the one to roll that dice?

[Mungler]

14 minutes ago, henry d said:

Facts tell us that we are losing old people and frail/ill people, what else do we need? "You've had a great life, sorry but you are either locked up or dead, okay?" 

Government are not throwing granny under the bus, so why not? They have the dosh, houses, clogging up old folks homes and the NHS, and on top of that taxable stuff lots of money in state pensions could be freed up too, why are they not doing it? Beats me, either the Tories have bottled it or there is the possibility that by going all out back to normal, vaccine or not, it's probably just a bad flu mentality that it could mutate badly and win. I hope it isn't but would you be the one to roll that dice?

If we look at the ONS death heat map (above) we can see that anyone under 60 years of age has very little to worry about.

Facts tell us that this year our death rate is running below the 5 year average. 

We have what, 4 or 5 million able bodied working people currently on furlough. We are killing the education, lives and prospects of the young. We are consigning future generations to poverty and the repayment of the massive debt currently being amassed. We are facing financial ruin, and it is economic activity that pays for ‘stuff’, stuff like the NHS.

With the stats to hand, a vaccine and the summer months it is only right to open up now - if don’t, then when?

Those at particular risk (who are not of working age in any event) can take extra care if they so choose.

There will be a stream of variants coming - and we’ve had (and the media told us to fear) the Kent, the South African and the Brazilian variants - what news of them now? But a distant memory as too the Delta variant will become.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Mungler

[LeedsZeppelin]

15 hours ago, Mungler said:

Facts tell us that this year our death rate is running below the 5 year average. 

But last year's rates were well up, which shows the potential danger of COVID and a need to be cautious.

 

15 hours ago, Mungler said:

With the stats to hand, a vaccine and the summer months it is only right to open up now - if don’t, then when?

The stats are showing an increase in hospitalisation rates again, even with more people getting vaccinated. Isn't that a worrying sign?

With those rates increasing, experts tipping it to get worse, and everyone suddenly deciding that all precautions are now unnecessary, what is in store for the immediate future?

I would rather spend the summer months in sensible restrictions than another miserable winter in lockdown. Of course I'd much rather do neither, but I cannot see that happening.

15 hours ago, Mungler said:

We have what, 4 or 5 million able bodied working people currently on furlough. We are killing the education, lives and prospects of the young. We are consigning future generations to poverty and the repayment of the massive debt currently being amassed. We are facing financial ruin, and it is economic activity that pays for ‘stuff’, stuff like the NHS.

This is all true. I personally don't know what the answer is though.

Let everyone catch it and let nature take it's course? That will overwhelm the NHS and have other implications.

It's impossible decisions like this that make me glad I'm not in a position to have to make them.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

Let everyone catch it and let nature take it's course? That will overwhelm the NHS and have other implications.

 

 

This is todays virus spread map, is the NHS 'overwhelmed' ? 

5.5 million people have had positive tests over the past 14 months , many , many more will have had it , and either didnt get tested , or didnt even notice they had it, many had it before there were even tests for  it , and spread it about with gay abandon, the NHS NEVER got overwhelmed.

36 million of the most vulnerable are doubled jabbed, 46 million are singled jabbed.
A million tests are done a day , some 50 ,000 a day are positive 'new' cases, the NHS hospital admissions have gone up slightly.
Hysteria aside, if now isnt the time to put on the big boy pants and start living with this sensibly, rather than cowering in fear,  when will it be ?

 

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

But last year's rates were well up, which shows the potential danger of COVID and a need to be cautious.

Correlation is not causation!  If you still believe the official death figures weren't vastly inflated, well I've got some magic beans to sell you.

2 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

I would rather spend the summer months in sensible restrictions than another miserable winter in lockdown.

That is a total false dichotomy, we must do neither. 

Lockdowns do not work, it baffles me that people still think they do, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

At a push, I would accept perhaps a Swedish model, no not 'no lockdown', but rather the vulnerable sheltering, the rest of us getting on with it.  If you think determining who's vulnerable is difficult, it isn't, it's the same as the priority groups for vaccines.

2 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

Let everyone catch it and let nature take it's course? That will overwhelm the NHS and have other implications.

To certain extent yes.  Vaccines work to protect a population by herd immunity, the young and fit catching it being much the same thing.

I do not agree it will overwhelm the NHS.  The NHS was never overwhelmed OR the NHS is overwhelmed annually by this new thing called 'winter'.   Which is not a lack of money, it is poor management, pure and simple.

 

 

[Mungler]

4 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

But last year's rates were well up, which shows the potential danger of COVID and a need to be cautious.

 

The stats are showing an increase in hospitalisation rates again, even with more people getting vaccinated. Isn't that a worrying sign?

With those rates increasing, experts tipping it to get worse, and everyone suddenly deciding that all precautions are now unnecessary, what is in store for the immediate future?

I would rather spend the summer months in sensible restrictions than another miserable winter in lockdown. Of course I'd much rather do neither, but I cannot see that happening.

This is all true. I personally don't know what the answer is though.

Let everyone catch it and let nature take it's course? That will overwhelm the NHS and have other implications.

It's impossible decisions like this that make me glad I'm not in a position to have to make them.

I don’t know where to start:

1. last year’s rates are well documented on the ONS website. The average age of Covid death was higher than the usual average age of death. You know that means that the average Covid victim’s age was higher / older than the usual average age of mortality, right? That is incredible and should take your breath away. It is beyond telling and it underlines that this is predominantly a disease of age.

2. Again, saying there’s a rise in infection or hospitalisation is meaningless in isolation. 1 increasing to 2, is an increase or a catastrophically dangerous doubling if you work for the BBC.  Testing and infections are through the roof but that is not manifesting in a corresponding increase in death rates. Yes, death rates will increase from 19 (as of today) and 19 is a ridiculously low number with a population of 70,000,000 especially in the context of the above in that if 19No. ninety year olds die within 28 days of a positive Covid test result then so what? I don’t want to be harsh but that’s the natural end to a long and we’ll travelled road.

3. Hospitals are there to treat the sick - it’s their primary purpose. We can’t be surprised if they get busy. In normal years they get so busy to the point of collapse treating old people with flu. This is no different save that it involves £3 trillion of debt which climbs everyday and 5 million healthy people of working age (and thus not being in the age demographic at risk of Covid) being paid to stay at home. 

4. If not now, then when? If you think the government will wait to release restrictions in autumn come winter, and you want a continuation of lockdown through summer then you are frankly bonkers. 

[Gordon R]

Mungler - You are clouding the issue with facts, which Covid fans hate.

I agree that there are some bonkers people about. There is no reasoning with them.

[12gauge82]

Here's the thing I don't get with people calling for lockdowns to continue. (although I think house arrest is a more accurate term). We've done all that can be done to tackle the virus with vaccines and drugs to treat the symptoms. So what are they advocating, indefinitely being imprisoned in our own homes? Because if they're not, when exactly are we going to lift restrictions since it seems almost enviable Covid is with us for the foreseeable. 

 

[Mungler]

On 17/07/2021 at 13:17, Mungler said:

We are currently running below the 5 year average mortality rate - quite a feat in a pandemic, no? 

The spikes last year were dry tinder and deaths brought forward early.

 

 

 

 

So, it’s increasingly looking like ‘dry tinder theory’ was correct.

Not sure why the news from the CDC today that “Over 75% Of COVID Deaths In Vaccinated Had ‘At Least 4 Comorbidities” isn’t all over the BBC.

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/cdc-director-admits-over-75-of-covid-deaths-in-people-with-at-least-4-comorbidities?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR3Zht9BAJGTQbhxOLqNG8gLqOhe_vdP5GFNqn1WoKC5c38ESspWBiN5jzM

Edited January 11, 2022 by Mungler

[Gordon R]

It's probably because it doesn't fit the current thinking by those who want to lockdown just about everything. 

The country cannot continue to afford to spend the kind of money that has been thrown at the pandemic - a large proportion of which has gone in fraud, useless track and trace, plus the consultants who provide nothing but gloom and doom. Not to mention firms springing up providing face masks, with no previous track record. 

The sooner we learn to live with it, the better off we will be.

[Mungler]

Down to 5 days now. They’re still making it up as they go along but it is all fizzing out now.

I still can’t for the life of me work out what’s going on with Wales and Scotland.

I wonder what the history books will make of this 😆

[39TDS]

33 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I wonder what the history books will make of this

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it

 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

still can’t for the life of me work out what’s going on with Wales and Scotland.

Nobody does, I was looking a while back but lost interest because it doesn't affect me or mine.

What does make me laugh though is that the likes of Ian Blackford likes to moan and rant about Boris without getting their own affairs in order, but then they'll ask for a load of money?

Almost makes you want them to go it alone,   but it's the ordinary Scotts folk who will suffer.

 

[amateur]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

Almost makes you want them to go it alone,   but it's the ordinary Scotts folk who will suffer.

What do you mean, "Almost".

It would be worth it (for us ordinary English folk), not least so that  Scottish devolution ceased to be a constant topic on  BBC news