Is it OK to shoot Jays?

[Fellside]

9 minutes ago, London Best said:

We (shooters) do not “prey” on anything. 
The species we shoot are quarry, not prey.

Semantics only. 

[London Best]

Seventy odd replies on this thread and the only one required was ‘yes’.

[Fellside]

9 minutes ago, London Best said:

Seventy odd replies on this thread and the only one required was ‘yes’.

I did try that at the start……😁

[Gas seal]

Hi 70 odd replies and the answer is still yes with authority and no without. The man who asked the question hasn’t replied to any one. Maybe he quit his job or got the sack, but he could have replied. Could a member who can use a computer better than me please print the part of the licence that says ( who can use this licence) thanks. It should help the man . He could have just read it himself.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I believe the terms are;

"As a land owner, occupier or authorised person, use this general licence to kill or take certain wild birds to conserve wild birds, flora or fauna of conservation concern"

[Gas seal]

Almost, again it’s the terms and conditions quoted any of the above may not be able to use it. The license is quite specific as to who can use it. Maybe we are discussing different licenses, l refer to the English licence. This is really interesting for such a simple question. All he had to do is Google it, He could have done that in the field on his phone. That’s what the kids are always telling me just Google it. I hope he gets sorted, he’s had enough answers.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Gas seal said:

Almost, again it’s the terms and conditions quoted any of the above may not be able to use it. The license is quite specific as to who can use it. Maybe we are discussing different licenses, l refer to the English licence. This is really interesting for such a simple question. All he had to do is Google it, He could have done that in the field on his phone. That’s what the kids are always telling me just Google it. I hope he gets sorted, he’s had enough answers.

He had enough answers on the first page!  

[ilovemyheckler]

Thanks for all the replies and as I see it (and I may be wrong) you can only shoot Jays under General Licence 40 and then only to conserve endangered woodland birds.

there is a specific list of endangered species. Intrestingly Woodcosk are on the list so you could shoot a jay if woodcock are around but you can also shoot woodcock so this is a bit of a contradiction?

If challenged would the shooter not have to prove that at least one of those endangered species was present in the woodland?

With regard to permission to shoot many of the above have said that the gamekeeper can give permission to shoot Jays but legally the only person who can give permission would be the landowner or the owner of the shooting rights? Although the gamekeeper could be one of those on alot of shoots the gamekeeper is only an employee

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Still overthinking it then?

[Fellside]

6 hours ago, ilovemyheckler said:

Thanks for all the replies and as I see it (and I may be wrong) you can only shoot Jays under General Licence 40 and then only to conserve endangered woodland birds.

there is a specific list of endangered species. Intrestingly Woodcosk are on the list so you could shoot a jay if woodcock are around but you can also shoot woodcock so this is a bit of a contradiction?

If challenged would the shooter not have to prove that at least one of those endangered species was present in the woodland?

With regard to permission to shoot many of the above have said that the gamekeeper can give permission to shoot Jays but legally the only person who can give permission would be the landowner or the owner of the shooting rights? Although the gamekeeper could be one of those on alot of shoots the gamekeeper is only an employee

There isn’t a contradiction with woodcock. If you shoot them in December and January you have a 97% chance of shooting a Eurasian migrant (GWCT, 2021), rather than a UK native bird. It’s the UK nesting pairs which are of key concern. Hence being red listed and a legit’ reason for shooting jays. 

[Gas seal]

Hi yes it’s GL40 the jay is only on this one, some birds are on different licenses for different reasons. If you are shooting woodpigeon with authority and then shoot a jay you will need authority to shoot the jay and use a different licence. Just be sure you can (rely ) on the license for your actions.

[Fellside]

Perhaps succumb to analysis paralysis, and do nothing…….?!

Or….. if you have permission, crack on and shoot them! That’s all ‘authority’ means. 

Its as simple as that really. 

[Gas seal]

Authority is needed to kill the jay . Did the man who shot it have authority. Yes the license is simple it’s black and white. Not a grey area anymore. Is it a case of looking for a reason to kill the jay or killing the jay for a reason. If you have authority and keep to the conditions then the license you can rely on the license. If l was asked to shoot jays l would want to see why Before shooting them the same as I do with other other birds on the licence. I would have to show good reason for taking action. When using any of the licences the user has to show why they took action . I would say that the man who shot the jay would have no idea of what red listed dicky birds were in area he was shooting. 

 

[Fellside]

I think this has gone round in circles long enough.

Over and out. 
 

Happy jay shooting all……..🙂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 hours ago, Fellside said:

I think this has gone round in circles long enough.

Over and out. 
 

Happy jay shooting all……..🙂

Amen to that, listening - OUT!

[Jaymo]

No it’s not ok to shoot Jays- I can’t run very fast and it hurts!!!

Oh, you don’t mean me 🤔

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Blimey, it was a long day in the sim, wasn't it!  

[Walker570]

On 24/01/2022 at 23:08, Gas seal said:

The man asked if jays can be shot on a driven pheasant shoot. The only answer is yes if they have authority. No if they don’t. The first question always asked by the police will be have you got a gun license and have you got authority to kill the birds. Has anyone looked at the license to see who can use it . When it can be used. And were it can be used. This is the only reason why the license works. This was the first thing I looked for and noticed that it was for two years. The license is no trap it gives immunity from prosecution. 

This.

I have a wood which houses a large number of red listed birds and as the owner I give myself permission to control the jays, magpies and any other 'rodent' likely to damage the future of these little birds.   BUT if your a guest on the shooting area, estate then ask for permission. Simples.

Usually at the start of a driven game day we ask what winged vermin they would like shot and also are grey squirrels in trees classed as ground game.

[merseamal]

On 20/01/2022 at 19:40, Fellside said:

The GLs are very open to interpretation and full of confusing contradictions. They are written that way to avoid legal challenge. There is no reference as to when the red listed species can be protected. I personally have no hesitation in shooting jays. It is up to each individual as to whether they wish to control them or not. ‘Illegal’ though…… doesn’t have any relevance in this context. 

Think you’ll find the general license very clear and no need for interpretation. Jays kill red list young therefore as you say, fine to kill them.

[Fellside]

15 hours ago, merseamal said:

Think you’ll find the general license very clear and no need for interpretation. Jays kill red list young therefore as you say, fine to kill them.

So suddenly I’ve got you marking my homework from over a year ago….?!

The GLs are riddled with contradictions in several key areas - precisely to avoid legal challenge. That is the nature of the beast. As for the jay, yes fine to shoot. We’re all surrounded by red listers anyway. I trust the OP might have shot a few in the last year or so since seeking advice. 

[enfieldspares]

Well just tell them that if it was good enough for Colonel Downham then it's OK enough for you too.

[Fellside]

12 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Well just tell them that if it was good enough for Colonel Downham then it's OK enough for you too.

Yes - and great for the authentic ‘Dunkeld’. Makes a lovely summer grilse fly. 

[dessyb]

On 21/01/2022 at 10:08, Old farrier said:

Shot a jay and a magpie on a pheasant day

was billed £37 each at the end of the day 

 

so you should

[Scully]

On 24/04/2023 at 14:42, dessyb said:

so you should

Why? 🤔

[welsh1]

I think this one has been done to death, time to put it to bed.