Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[mchughcb]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Does it.

They got half way there with devolution.

[henry d]

1 minute ago, mchughcb said:

Scotland wants its independence...

*** what's wrong with you? Some people in Scotland want independence, they were defeated.

[mchughcb]

2 minutes ago, henry d said:

*** what's wrong with you? Some people in Scotland want independence, they were defeated.

But some people can't accept any referendum result out of the Donbass. Interesting.

[Mungler]

3 minutes ago, mchughcb said:

But some people can't accept any referendum result out of the Donbass. Interesting.

Errrr show me a proper referendum where the voters are verified and the procedure witnessed and checked as democratic, fair and independent - oh hang on, that’s never going to happen. Let’s have a sham one now anyway eh?
😆

EDIT

I can’t wait until they announce the postal votes on this referendum 😆😆

Edited September 24, 2022 by Mungler

[Dave-G]

34 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Errrr show me a proper referendum where the voters are verified and the procedure witnessed and checked as democratic, fair and independent - oh hang on, that’s never going to happen. Let’s have a sham one now anyway eh?
😆

EDIT

I can’t wait until they announce the postal votes on this referendum 😆😆

Pigs might fly but it could be a way out for Putin if the votes don't go for Russia.

[Mungler]

8 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Pigs might fly but it could be a way out for Putin if the votes don't go for Russia.

You know what, that would be a perfect way down for Putin from the top of the ladder he’s currently balancing off.

[johnphilip]

58 minutes ago, mchughcb said:

Scotland wants its independence but most voted no in Brexit. 

Donbass wants its independence and most are going to vote for Urexit.

 

Fair enough.

The SNP and there followers want independence.  The vote on brexit was a UK vote  

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

The SNP and there followers want independence.

That is what the SNP was created for - but the vote for all Scotland residents on independence in 2014 went (narrowly but clearly with 2 million against. 1.6 million for) for retaining the current position within the UK.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, timps said:

So basically you agree with me that the vote is a sham which was my only point as some believe it to be the same level of democracy as the brexit vote

Said it would be a sham as soon as it was announced, simply because all residents of the area aren't present, and running such things in a war zone isn't right. 

This doesn't detract from the fact that many will genuinely want to join Russia though. 

[Dave-G]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Said it would be a sham as soon as it was announced, simply because all residents of the area aren't present, and running such things in a war zone isn't right. 

This doesn't detract from the fact that many will genuinely want to join Russia though. 

Correct - most Ukrainians will have fled

[mchughcb]

19 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

The SNP and there followers want independence.  The vote on brexit was a UK vote  

Correct but if you look at how each region voted the majority of Scots wanted to stay.

[Mungler]

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Said it would be a sham as soon as it was announced, simply because all residents of the area aren't present, and running such things in a war zone isn't right. 

This doesn't detract from the fact that many will genuinely want to join Russia though. 

So many people have already been forcibly relocated to the far regions of Russia and scooping up any who actually want to go, well that’s go to be worth a conversation.

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Correct - most Ukrainians will have fled

They're all Ukrainians {mostly} some identify themselves as Russian Ukrainian though. 

It's very easy to say that xxxxx people in line are patsies, or bussed in to make it look like they are flying the Russian flag, and some probably are, but some do want this, its just what percentage, and if most pro western Ukrainians aren't present, how can it be fair? 

It's hardly the first time Ukraine has had a rigged vote is it? So they're all likely used to it now anyway. 

3 minutes ago, Mungler said:

So many people have already been forcibly relocated to the far regions of Russia and scooping up any who actually want to go, well that’s go to be worth a conversation.

Can't really be too trustful of the source for that material to be honest. 

Forcibly relocated, doesn't sound plausible in a broad sense. 

I could be wrong, but I'd like to see more data on that before I accept its not the machinations of UKRinform. 

[Jaymo]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Errrr show me a proper referendum where the voters are verified and the procedure witnessed and checked as democratic, fair and independent - oh hang on, that’s never going to happen. Let’s have a sham one now anyway eh?
😆

EDIT

I can’t wait until they announce the postal votes on this referendum 😆😆

Apparently the turn out was excellent and 400% 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[timps]

36 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

This doesn't detract from the fact that many will genuinely want to join Russia though. 

I don’t dispute that at all, I have said in the previous comments  there are those prepared to fight in a civil war over this so plenty want to breakaway from Ukraine.  
 

But for a democratic vote we need to know how many for and against for it to be of any significance. 
 

My original post was aimed at those that think this will be a genuine democratic vote and we in the west are hypocrites for not accepting it. 
 

 

[henry d]

2 hours ago, mchughcb said:

But some people can't accept any referendum result out of the Donbass. Interesting.

If it was about the Donbas then why did Russia invade elsewhere? If it was about it then they would have invaded from there and job done. The whole thing is a sham.

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, timps said:

 

My original post was aimed at those that think this will be a genuine democratic vote and we in the west are hypocrites for not accepting it.

👍

Some towns and villages are abandoned or flattened, how will they vote? 

Likewise, I wouldn't have thought Zelensky fans are too plentiful in Donbas these days. 

We shall just have to let the story play out, but what I will accept, is this is a desperate move by Russia to alter the landscape {literally} of the chessboard. And as much as we in the west say we won t accept the inevitable result, it is a major headache for NATO. 

Who's bluffing? 

Russia is already escalating with mobilisation, as much as we are told they have no men or equipment left, that's clearly not the case. 

Are the west going to up the stakes to counter, is it actually worth it for them? 

I said right at the beginning, the US/NATO are happy to let Russia break itself against the anvil of Ukraine, but did they bank on it going this far? 

Did they seek the complete collapse of Russia, with all of the uncertainty and risk this involves? 

I have my doubts. 

 

[Mungler]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

Did they seek the complete collapse of Russia, with all of the uncertainty and risk this involves? 

I have my doubts. 

 

Ask Putin that one first 😆

 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Ask Putin that one first 😆

 

I know what you're saying, and I do believe he has bought Russia to the brink, is 'miscalculation' an understatement 😂

But again, do the west want regime and economic collapse in Russia? 

Because if this all goes wrong, that's what we're looking at. 

I still say the west couldn't give a flying fig for Ukraine, they are just bait, chum to bring the shark in. And the idea of it being some kind of moral duty to help them fight Russia is laughable. 

They have no morals. 

[Mungler]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I know what you're saying, and I do believe he has bought Russia to the brink, is 'miscalculation' an understatement 😂

But again, do the west want regime and economic collapse in Russia? 

Because if this all goes wrong, that's what we're looking at. 

I still say the west couldn't give a flying fig for Ukraine, they are just bait, chum to bring the shark in. And the idea of it being some kind of moral duty to help them fight Russia is laughable. 

They have no morals. 

Well, if you believe the West has no morals, I’m afraid the West still has the monopoly on morals when compared to Russia. 

This is the Putin **** show. He carries on regardless and everyone else reacts if, as and when, because they have to. It’s all on him.

[12gauge82]

I had no idea there were so many supposed PW members who were actually Russian bots. 

[ordnance]

Quote

Russia is already escalating with mobilisation, as much as we are told they have no men or equipment left, that's clearly not the case. 

Obviously there are plenty of men in Russia that can be forced into he army, as for equipment i doubt you know what equipment and how good it is they are receiving. 

[Mungler]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I had no idea there were so many supposed PW members who were actually Russian bots. 

Weird isn’t it. So very weird.

 

[Newbie to this]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I had no idea there were so many supposed PW members who were actually Russian bots. 

 

6 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Weird isn’t it. So very weird.

 

That's got as much truth in it, as the Russian referendum results will have.

[Rewulf]

7 hours ago, Mungler said:

Weird isn’t it. So very weird.

 

What's weird is some on here's perception of what a bot is 😂

Seems to be a catch all name to call anyone who disagrees with the official narrative. 

You disagreed with the official narrative on covid, did that make you a 'bot'.? 

No one here works for the Russians, as exciting that may sound in a Hollywood voice, it's just a bunch of blokes with opinions that differ, that I personally find interesting. No ones mind is going to be changed, and no governments are going to be undermined by PW. 

The sweepstake on voter turnout and result percentages definitely needs doing though. 😏