Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[oowee]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Can you give me a recent historical example where this has happened, say in the last 100 years ?

Milosvic. Karadzik. 

[Mungler]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Pelosi has just sneaked into Taiwan 

Madness. 

What runs through these peoples heads?

[Rewulf]

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

Milosvic. Karadzik. 

Ill give you milosovic, although the Serbs really didnt want to give him up, 'anonymous donors' came up with $1 billion dollars as a sweetener to let him go, Im sure that money didnt find its way into private Swiss bank accounts at all 😆

Karadic , wasnt really at the helm when he was indicted, and evaded capture for over a decade, with SERB help, operating freely as a doctor under assumed names, in various countries , so the sanctions thing doesnt really work for him.
I find the fact that we host him in a UK prison at huge expense , rather distasteful.
Maybe he will share the slobs fate eventually, and do an epstein ?

22 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Madness. 

What runs through these peoples heads?

Well I cant see she did it without presidential approval, so make of it what you will.
I would call it provocation, testing the mettle of the Chinese.

The trip is certainly unnecessary.

[Rewulf]

 

[Mungler]

Well, it’s a free country. Oh hang on, no it’s not, not in China anyways 😆

[Stonepark]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pelosis-plane-avoiding-south-china-sea-taiwan-pla-surges-forces-just-across-strait

 

And here comes Ukraine 2.0.....

 

[bostonmick]

if the west sanctions china lik russia it means we will be closed.as most of the world has been only to happy to enjoy the cheap prices of its goods regardless of inferior quality.some interesting times ahead not good but interesting

[islandgun]

Not seeing anything about China on the BBC website

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Not seeing anything about China on the BBC website

Directors probably had a bung off the CCP

[Stonepark]

 

[oowee]

Yep in for a penny lets close them down. We can't have CCP bullying the world. 

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Yep in for a penny lets close them down. We can't have CCP bullying the world. 

That might not be as easy as you make it sound. 😂

 

[Rewulf]

Trigger alert for some, as this report is not 'kind' to the Ukrainian government/military, and its not from Russia either 😆

Basically, Amnesty international has criticised Ukraine for siting military forces and weapons installations within , or beside civilian buildings and infrastructure.https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ukraine-military-endangering-civilians-locating-forces-residential-areas-new

Believe it or not , its not thought that Amnesty works for the Kremlin, but has in fact , indirectly, accused the Ukrainian military of using its own civilians as human shields.
This in no way detracts from the fact , or trys to insinuate, that Russias invasion of Ukraine is at all justified.
Just so we are clear on that bit.

Russia did however accuse Ukraine of doing this right from the beginning , and was thoroughly dismissed from the conversation, as liars ect.
Zelensky is apoplectic with steroid induced rage over it apparently.
And has ordered the 'liquidation' of any Amnesty 'operatives' on sight ...maybe..

 

 

[oowee]

Not sure where else they could put them they are after all defending the cities. Out in the middle of a field I guess but they wont last long. 

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Trigger alert for some, as this report is not 'kind' to the Ukrainian government/military, and its not from Russia either 😆

Basically, Amnesty international has criticised Ukraine for siting military forces and weapons installations within , or beside civilian buildings and infrastructure.https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ukraine-military-endangering-civilians-locating-forces-residential-areas-new

Believe it or not , its not thought that Amnesty works for the Kremlin, but has in fact , indirectly, accused the Ukrainian military of using its own civilians as human shields.
This in no way detracts from the fact , or trys to insinuate, that Russias invasion of Ukraine is at all justified.
Just so we are clear on that bit.

Russia did however accuse Ukraine of doing this right from the beginning , and was thoroughly dismissed from the conversation, as liars ect.
Zelensky is apoplectic with steroid induced rage over it apparently.
And has ordered the 'liquidation' of any Amnesty 'operatives' on sight ...maybe..

 

 

indeed - and many of us have seen images of tanks outside apartment blocks.

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

accused the Ukrainian military of using its own civilians as human shields.

Just as the invading Russians are allegedly deploying missiles to attack civilians within the 'shelter' of nuclear power installations - because they know they won't be shelled/bombed due to the radiation risk.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62432873

War is a dirty business.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not sure where else they could put them they are after all defending the cities. Out in the middle of a field I guess but they wont last long. 

No they wont , but I said this right from the start, if you position troops in residential buildings, and they are firing on the enemy, are the enemy expected to just let them carry on shooting at them without retaliation ?
This takes a whole new turn , when you deliberately use occupied civilian buildings , hoping the enemy will leave them alone, often in vain.
We didnt leave them alone in Afghan or Iraq, the Israelis dont leave them alone in Gaza, and the Russians certainly aint doing it in Ukraine.

 

10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Just as the invading Russians are allegedly deploying missiles to attack civilians within the 'shelter' of nuclear power installations - because they know they won't be shelled/bombed due to the radiation risk.

The Ukrainians did exactly the same in the early days at Chernobyl, to international outcry when the Russians fired on them anyway.

 

12 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

War is a dirty business.

Yep.

[Mungler]

“Many of the Russian strikes that Amnesty has documented in recent months were carried out with inherently indiscriminate weapons, including internationally-banned cluster munitions or other explosive weapons with wide-area effects. The Ukrainian military’s practice of locating military objectives within populated areas does not in any way justify indiscriminate Russian attacks. All parties to a conflict must at all times distinguish between military objectives and civilian objects and take all feasible precautions - including in their choice of weapons - to minimise civilian harm. Indiscriminate attacks which kill or injure civilians or damage civilian objects are war crimes.”

 

It’s just victim blaming. It’s like on Facey, round our way a Range Rover gets stolen off someone’s driveway every night. The comments are - didn’t you get a tracker? Didn’t you use a steering lock? Oh I bet you didn’t have a faraday pouch. Very few say ‘scumbag car thieves’ anymore.

If Russia hadn’t started a war and invaded a neighbour…

Indeed, given that Ukraine hadn’t planned for this and didn’t have military installations where they were needed, using existing structures may have been the only option. 

 

[bostonmick]

its a reasonable thing to yry and defend your cities and their population.i doubt any country that has gone through any war has not militarized their cities and major towns.the type of weapons would depend on the times and how the war is being fought.did we not have weapons of various kinds around ours in ww2.in reality there are no rules in war as this one has proved.

[Rewulf]

16 hours ago, Mungler said:

Indeed, given that Ukraine hadn’t planned for this and didn’t have military installations where they were needed, using existing structures may have been the only option. 

Err, artillery or SAM systems dont really need existing structures, in fact the back blast and pressure waves , are highly detrimental to residential areas , so that excuse literally blows away in the wind.
Normal practice for siting artillery or other heavy equipment, is to put it in places where collapsing buildings wont hinder its removal after its given its position away, ie open woodland.
Amnesty has drawn the conclusion that the positions have been deliberately placed near civilians , more as a shield, than cover.

And whats good for the goose is good for the gander, as the Russians have placed artillery positions within the Zaporizhia nuclear plant, which has since taken hits by Ukrainian artillery, knocking out power to some civilian areas, and risking hitting nuclear infrastructure.
The Ukrainian response is that the Russian 'terrorists' have risked nuclear disaster by shelling their own positions , so they can blame the Ukrainians.
What a tangled web we weave....

[ordnance]

Quote

Amnesty has drawn the conclusion that the positions have been deliberately placed near civilians , more as a shield, than cover.

Amnesty international is about as left wing as they come, to think placing Ukraine military in civilian areas would deter the Russians attacking it is laughable. 

[Rewulf]

10 hours ago, ordnance said:

Amnesty international is about as left wing as they come

They are either telling the truth or lying, are they left wing, in league with the Russians? It's irrelevant, the evidence they found is either true or its not. 

 

10 hours ago, ordnance said:

to think placing Ukraine military in civilian areas would deter the Russians attacking it is laughable

You've messed up with that statement. If they didn't think it would deter the Russians from firing on them, then why place it there, putting civilians in the line of fire? 

Blatent disregard for the safety of the citizens they are supposed to be protecting. 

And if the insinuation is that Russians don't care about firing at residential buildings, what military doesn't? The Americans had a recognised and approved ROE in Iraq when they came under fire in urban areas, 360 degree fire with all weapons, indiscriminate fire from HMGs into houses, you know how many walls a 50 cal round goes through? 

The Brits and Yanks regularly put a 500lb bomb or artillery strike into houses or compounds they took fire from, no regard for non combatants within. 

So please leave out the wierd idea that it's only Russians who do this. 

[Mungler]

Someone on here in early June said it would be all over with a total Russian victory and inside a month. I think there were other predictions that Zelensky would be toppled etc (all straight off Russia Today).

So, what’s the current prediction? 😆

I smell an agreement of sorts in the wind - whilst Russian artillery has flattened most of the East (the bit they wanted, well done them) but now the Russian pain is getting to a point it can’t be ignored. 

If a deal is going to happen, it has to be now whilst there’s good weather. Get into winter and this will drag out even longer with the Russians believing an energy advantage will get them a better deal (and they could be right).

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Someone on here in early June said it would be all over with a total Russian victory and inside a month. I think there were other predictions that Zelensky would be toppled etc (all straight off Russia Today).

So, what’s the current prediction? 😆

I smell an agreement of sorts in the wind - whilst Russian artillery has flattened most of the East (the bit they wanted, well done them) but now the Russian pain is getting to a point it can’t be ignored. 

If a deal is going to happen, it has to be now whilst there’s good weather. Get into winter and this will drag out even longer with the Russians believing an energy advantage will get them a better deal (and they could be right).

i agree with you.......and they know that the lull in fighting has given the Ukraines the chances to up- gun/train/re-equip/re-supply.......any further advances the russians will now make will be very very costly in man power and equipment

[Mungler]

So, I have over recent years lost any respect for Amnesty international an organisation apparently fully and only stocked with Jeremy Corbyn carbon cut outs and who rarely get stuck into any Russian or Chinese issues / abuses.

Anyways, they’ve taken a deserved bashing in all media platforms (except the pro Russian ones) for victim blaming the Ukrainians in their response to being invaded and all the while with no criticism of Russia for the invasion.