Next Prime minister lads/lassies ?

[udderlyoffroad]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

The flip side of this is that COVID may well have temporarily hidden the true horrors of would've allowed them to concentrate on implementing a better Brexit.

Fixed that for you.

14 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

What evidence would you cite in supporting this?

We're never told what-ifs so I suspect this aspect of discussion will be circular.

Pretty sure the trains running slow is Brexit's fault, according to some on here, and doubtless they'll find a way to blame 'bushfires' on Brexit too, rather than arson/careless arsewipes with fagbutts.

Anyway, we all know it's going to be Rishi Rat as next PM.  His enthusiasm for  'central bank digital currency' might not be the vote-winner he thinks it is, but I doubt that'll stop him.

So we'll head into a General Election as a Hobson's choice between his continuity new-labour spend and burn, and actual labour.  Net result will be the coalition hell-scape favoured by @oowee , with the greens driving policy to tax us into serfdom.  What a time to be alive.  

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Borrowed money has to be paid back - something often forgotten

This is the main reason we are in the troubles we are in.

[Raja Clavata]

24 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Fixed that for you.

Thanks, but I don't need you to fix anything for me.

So, you've provided no evidence and gone off on a tangent about some people blaming everything on Brexit, classy.

This notion that everything that went OK / good is due to Boris and anything less so is somebody else's wrong (scapegoating) or due to COVID / the EU / Macron / <insert whatever> simply has to stop. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Raja Clavata

[Mice!]

42 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

What evidence would you cite in supporting this?

The flip side of this is that COVID may well have temporarily hidden the true horrors of Brexit.

I'm not proposing one over the other, my personal view is that COVID trumped pretty much everything.

Nothing on the scale of lockdowns,  furlough or the track and trace sham had ever been done before,  the costs were huge.

Add to this the Aviation industry and holiday sector for two simple examples of areas of employment that were hammered, some people weren't earning,  others weren't spending,  Boris won a massive majority and could have pushed forwards but for having to lock the country down.

Then throw in the Ukraine just as we were getting passed covid and we are where we are.

If things had been normal then I don't think Brexit would have been an issue,  personally I'm still not sure it is, I've yet to notice anything different. 

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

It is a popular policy with many people; why should they care - they will be long gone by then; someone else's problem.

That, in effect was what Corbyn, McDonnell and Co were offering - and chillingly McDonnell even hinted that should the interest rates cause the debt burden to get too great, they would have to consider their options, hinting at defaulting.

Plant more magic money trees?

5 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

“It can’t be worse than it is at the moment” type of thinking

I was listening to a conversation in work last week, the high price of fuel and food is all Boris's fault and that Truss women has said she'll cut those straight away!!

I mentioned that the government need to get back what covid cost, nah they don't 😳 Labour could do what they normally do, promise cuts and it'll be lapped up.

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Nothing on the scale of lockdowns,  furlough or the track and trace sham had ever been done before,  the costs were huge.

Add to this the Aviation industry and holiday sector for two simple examples of areas of employment that were hammered, some people weren't earning,  others weren't spending,  Boris won a massive majority and could have pushed forwards but for having to lock the country down.

Then throw in the Ukraine just as we were getting passed covid and we are where we are.

If things had been normal then I don't think Brexit would have been an issue,  personally I'm still not sure it is, I've yet to notice anything different. 

I'd add the multi billion PPE scam with seemingly no accountability anywhere to be seen.

The thing is Boris did do precisely want he wanted and aspects of both his personal actions and those of his government have been found to be unlawful.

I guess normal is a subjective thing, many outsiders found Brexit far from normal, for example.

I've noticed negative impacts of Brexit, both from a personal and professional perspective. I am yet to see any positives frankly but am hopeful they may become apparent in due course. Frankly I'll take any positives I can get.

I appreciate you conceding that you're yet to notice anything different in relation to Brexit.

[ShootingEgg]

14 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I've noticed negative impacts of Brexit, both from a personal and professional perspective. I am yet to see any positives frankly but am hopeful they may become apparent in due course. Frankly I'll take any positives I can get.

Not trying to rattle anything but what impacts have you seen that are due to Brexit? Genuine question.

[Raja Clavata]

25 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Not trying to rattle anything but what impacts have you seen that are due to Brexit? Genuine question.

Some examples:

In 2018 I was invited to re-join the US Corporation I voluntarily left in 2016 - meeting the CEO f2f in Michigan, US - he told me Brexit was the final nail in the coffin for UK Engineering in the Group, so if I wanted to go back I had to choose between German or US residency as they planned to close the UK engineering operation (== less UK jobs). 

Prior to Brexit, the UK division of my new / current employer (large multinational with ~350,000 employees globally) was able to leverage Horizon Europe and other EU funding, we are no longer able to do this and this has had a significant impact on the UK R&D funding and therefore the UK headcount budget (== less UK jobs). 

At a Group level, despite the UK division being seen as a key player in support of critical systems and infrastructure with skills relevant to growth within the Group e.g. UK Air traffic control, there are lower levels of Group investment allocated to the UK than before Brexit (== less UK jobs).

Despite being a Group employee with a global role, I'm somewhat "tarred with the same brush" as the majority who voted Brexit. Some of it is "only banter" but I'm not the only UK based employee with a Group role that feels there are negative implications with us being seen as "guilty by association" (== less global opportunities for UK based employees within the Group). 

My work involves a reasonable amount of travel, I have already detailed some of the issues with passport control based on needing to take the "rest of world" channel upon arrival in all EU countries elsewhere on this forum. In some cases now I have to travel the day before to mitigate delays - this has been cited as a first world problem by some here, but it has a significant impact on my "free time" and home life (== personal impact on quality of home life)..

Basically the rest of the world, apart perhaps from Ukraine - but that's nothing to do with Brexit, basically see us as less relevant as a nation on the global stage than we were prior to Brexit.

[Mice!]

32 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'd add the multi billion PPE scam with seemingly no accountability anywhere to be seen.

Absolutely,  I'm sure much of that was down to panic and demand but it was all money spent that wasn't planned for.

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

The thing is Boris did do precisely want he wanted and aspects of both his personal actions and those of his government have been found to be unlawful

He didn't want to lock the country down, or have people sat at home not working.

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

guess normal is a subjective thing, many outsiders found Brexit far from normal, for example.

I've noticed negative impacts of Brexit, both from a personal and professional perspective. I am yet to see any positives frankly but am hopeful they may become apparent in due course. Frankly I'll take any positives I can get.

I appreciate you conceding that you're yet to notice anything different in relation to Brexit.

I realise you are seeing travel delays and outsiders might think Brexit was strange,  but then I've never understood us having to follow rules made in Europe,  in time I expect us having left the European super state will pay off.

[Raja Clavata]

10 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Absolutely,  I'm sure much of that was down to panic and demand but it was all money spent that wasn't planned for.

Think we're talking cross purposes, I'm talking about the billions paid to companies that had not even existed prior to the pandemic. (tax payer money passed to "cohorts" of the decision makers based on nepotism).

12 minutes ago, Mice! said:

He didn't want to lock the country down, or have people sat at home not working.

Again, cross purposes here. No need to go over it again though.

13 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I realise you are seeing travel delays and outsiders might think Brexit was strange,  but then I've never understood us having to follow rules made in Europe,  in time I expect us having left the European super state will pay off.

Added a bit more context on this from a personal perspective per ShootingEgg's request.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

 

If things had been normal then I don't think Brexit would have been an issue,  personally I'm still not sure it is, I've yet to notice anything different. 

 

Bully for you.

Cost me another £275 this morning. Import tax and handling fee.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Think we're talking cross purposes, I'm talking about the billions paid to companies that had not even existed prior to the pandemic. (tax payer money passed to "cohorts" of the decision makers based on nepotism).

Again, cross purposes here. No need to go over it again though.

Added a bit more context on this from a personal perspective per ShootingEgg's request.

Who are these companies which never existed prior to covid, which were paid billions? 
I’m not disputing it, just genuinely interested. 
I know in business ( at a much more local level ) it is often the case ( especially when something is needed urgently ) that someone will say to a mate ‘do you know of anyone who could do such and such in a rush?’ More often than not the answer is yes. 
There are a couple of lads I know who are now millionaires on the back of such opportunities. Nothing sinister about them, just in the right place at the right time. Serendipity. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Bully for you.

Cost me another £275 this morning. Import tax and handling fee.

So what did you buy? Why did it need to come from abroad?

[Raja Clavata]

33 minutes ago, Scully said:

Who are these companies which never existed prior to covid, which were paid billions? 
I’m not disputing it, just genuinely interested. 
I know in business ( at a much more local level ) it is often the case ( especially when something is needed urgently ) that someone will say to a mate ‘do you know of anyone who could do such and such in a rush?’ More often than not the answer is yes. 
There are a couple of lads I know who are now millionaires on the back of such opportunities. Nothing sinister about them, just in the right place at the right time. Serendipity. 

The reference to billions is the entire PPE debacle.

https://www.transparency.org.uk/track-and-trace-uk-PPE-procurement-corruption-risk-VIP-lane

There are multiple sources on this online but I think you've said before that you don't follow posted links, so, in summary:

Key findings

High-risk contracts

• Contracts awarded to companies with political connections:

Twenty-four PPE contracts worth £1.6 billion were awarded to those with known political connections to Conservative Party.

Three contracts worth £536 million went to politically connected companies for testing related services.

• Contracts awarded without competition:

Between February and November 2020, 98.9 percent of COVID-19 related contracts by value (£17.8 billion) were awarded without any form of competition, many without adequate justification.

• Contracts awarded to companies with no track record of supplying goods or services:

Fourteen companies incorporated in 2020 received contracts worth more than £620 million, of which 13 contracts totalling £255 million went to 10 firms that were less than 60 days old.

Losing the money trail

Whitehall has faced understandable resource challenges, but our study catalogues the woefully inadequate arrangements for enabling scrutiny over the use of taxpayers’ money.

• Contracts awarded to politically connected companies were more likely to be published late. Details of 93 percent (28) of the 30 contracts awarded to politically connected companies were published late, compared to 70 percent (688) of the 970 without. Seven of these late contracts awarded to politically connected suppliers went unpublished for more than 100 days.

• Seventy two percent (711) of COVID-related contracts awarded during our sample period, worth £13.3 billion, were reported after the 30-day legal deadline, with £7.4 billion of this total reported more than 100 days after the contract was awarded. In comparison, on average it took Ukraine less than a day to publish information on 103,263 COVID-19 contracts after their award during the same period.

 

[Mice!]

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Fourteen companies incorporated in 2020 received contracts worth more than £620 million, of which 13 contracts totalling £255 million went to 10 firms that were less than 60 days old.

I'm only commenting on this bit, I'd hope it was because someone saw an opportunity and bought the PPE that was needed, and not insider trader as such, but given the huge sums of money involved I've no doubt it'll be investigated for years to come.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

So what did you buy? Why did it need to come from abroad?

A tablet. Its designed and specced in France and no doubt made in China. I can only buy it from France. 

[Mice!]

49 minutes ago, oowee said:

A tablet. Its designed and specced in France and no doubt made in China. I can only buy it from France. 

Might have been cheaper to pop to France 😅

But I'll take some things being dearer rather than surrendering control to France & Germany 

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Might have been cheaper to pop to France 😅

But I'll take some things being dearer rather than surrendering control to France & Germany 

It probably would have been had I known the charges would be applied 😁 It's also a lottery as it depends on staffing levels, packaging and the number of items in despatch. 

I can live with more expensive on one off purchases, its the delay, uncertainty and inconvenience that's a PITA and I am an individual. Imagine the situation for business and that's one of the reasons we have seen such a decline in trade.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's also a lottery as it depends on staffing levels, packaging and the number of items in despatch. 

It's that way from non EU parts as well.  I had two large pallets, roughly £500 each, two parts of the same item assembly, on the same flight, same handler (Kuhne & Nagle) from the same supplier to the same destination, same customs description - and got different rates of duty!

I see it's Sunak or Truss in the final.

[ditchman]

so now it is truss and sunak

dont make me puke.........the poo always floats to the top in the sewer.........you are now seeing the collapse of the consertaive party............always happens from within ..dosnt it...?

[oowee]

20 minutes ago, ditchman said:

so now it is truss and sunak

dont make me puke.........the poo always floats to the top in the sewer.........you are now seeing the collapse of the consertaive party............always happens from within ..dosnt it...?

Oh 🤮 Well at least its a change of personnel. They would have to be world class carp to be worse than the last ***.

[Raja Clavata]

So it boils down to the Conservative Party Members choosing which dressing they prefer, or dislike the least, to accompany their poo sandwich.

That said, I really fear it could be a disaster under Liz Trustless...

[Rewulf]

35 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So it boils down to the Conservative Party Members choosing which dressing they prefer, or dislike the least, to accompany their poo sandwich.

Never a truer word, I could have felt reasonably comfortable with Mordaunt, but Jesus, what a mess.....

35 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

That said, I really fear it could be a disaster under Liz Trustless...

Please God no, Sunak is terrible , but her ? 

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Never a truer word, I could have felt reasonably comfortable with Mordaunt, but Jesus, what a mess.....

Please God no, Sunak is terrible , but her ? 

I might be able to bring myself to vote Tory at the next GE under Sunak, can't see how I'll do anything other than continue to abstain if it's the other one...

[ditchman]

can the conservertives win at the next election with either sunak or truss as PM........what we have ended up with is what the 1922 commitee have brought forward.......nothing to do with what the conservertive electorect want

mess...mess...mess.....

[Dave-G]

45 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So it boils down to the Conservative Party Members choosing which dressing they prefer, or dislike the least, to accompany their poo sandwich.

That said, I really fear it could be a disaster under Liz Trustless...

Fully agreed.