Barrels catch firing pin ??

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, Westley said:

Do you jack up your car when you are not using it, it takes the pressure off the springs, you know  ?  🤔

That is generally recommended if ‘laying up’ a vehicle for long periods, and was quite common during WW2.

[Old farrier]

30 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Purdey suggest snap caps be used on all their guns both SXS and OU. Good enough for me.

There assisted opening model yes they are built on a different system to the op gun 

and a very nice gentleman shows your butler or chauffeur exactly how to do it when you purchase one 

including taking off the forend while you are doing the process

or your ejector spring will be remaining under tension 

it’s a purdey thing and not nessecarily applicable to other makes as the construction is different 

[Westley]

13 minutes ago, London Best said:

That is generally recommended if ‘laying up’ a vehicle for long periods, and was quite common during WW2.

Yes, BUT not every blooming time yer leave it  !  😄

I stopped people from bringing snap caps to the clay ground that I ran, I fail to see the point of putting snap caps in, releasing the springs until they got home and then stripping and cleaning the gun  ?  I have never used them in my O/U's unless I am checking trigger pull weights.

[1Ab]

Snap cap or not the fact remains the gun catches the closing face of the barrels. 

Not the snap caps.

Even if I get rid of the snap caps there will sometimes be a situation where the hammers are down and I have to open/close the gun.

So as per my gunsmith/RFD advice I need to deepen the gouge on closing face every time I get in this situation  because it will hit the firing pin.

[London Best]

I did not use snap caps until I had to have new mainsprings in my ‘knockabout’ gun, a Spanish BLE bought new and used regularly, (very regularly), for thirty years. As my ‘best’ side lock went out ten times last season I use snap caps when not in use. All the other guns, all SxS, get far less use, the .410’s once or twice a year and the 20 bore maybe every two years. Maybe the Spanish 12 had springs of lesser quality? Who knows? All the others are English made.

[Old farrier]

14 minutes ago, 1Ab said:

Snap cap or not the fact remains the gun catches the closing face of the barrels. 

Not the snap caps.

Even if I get rid of the snap caps there will sometimes be a situation where the hammers are down and I have to open/close the gun.

So as per my gunsmith/RFD advice I need to deepen the gouge on closing face every time I get in this situation  because it will hit the firing pin.

You should take it to bits as every time the firing pins catch there’s a danger of them bending 

then possibly staying protruding when you close the gun with a live cartridge in it 

sadly it’s a problem that needs sorting and it’s probably going to be new pins + other parts 

ignore the forums banter and get it to bits 

[1Ab]

24 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

then possibly staying protruding when you close the gun with a live cartridge in it 

You are right I had not considered this malfunction. 

It's just frustrating when you follow best practice and take your gun to someone who "knows" what they are doing instead of tinkering yourself to ensure you have a safe firearm.

And then what you get in return is a gun that does not function correctly and is potentially unsafe. 

And then to brush off the issue as snap caps. Boils my blood just a tad.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The issue is not the snap caps.

I simply question why you need them?

They have not caused the problem, but they will not be of much use.

Take the gun to a reputable Gun Smith and get it sorted.

[Old farrier]

21 minutes ago, 1Ab said:

You are right I had not considered this malfunction. 

It's just frustrating when you follow best practice and take your gun to someone who "knows" what they are doing instead of tinkering yourself to ensure you have a safe firearm.

And then what you get in return is a gun that does not function correctly and is potentially unsafe. 

And then to brush off the issue as snap caps. Boils my blood just a tad.

I fully understand and you have my sympathy 

now thinking rationally about this snap cap or cartridges it’s got a problem which seems to be caused by the firing pin 

that’s your starting point 

it maybe just grimy or dirty although possibly it’s bent or not located properly 

One is a clean and polish 

the other is a bit technical as you will probably need parts 

Then you have to work back from there if this doesn’t solve the problem 

sorry I can’t be more help 

come on chaps scrap the snap cap stuff and give the chap a hand here 

he seems a nice chap 

anyone got a exploded picture of a bennesole action or a link to a video of how you do it ? 
 

appologies for spelling my phone won’t do Italian or English come to that 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Old farrier

[London Best]

22 minutes ago, 1Ab said:

You are right I had not considered this malfunction. 

It's just frustrating when you follow best practice and take your gun to someone who "knows" what they are doing instead of tinkering yourself to ensure you have a safe firearm.

And then what you get in return is a gun that does not function correctly and is potentially unsafe. 

And then to brush off the issue as snap caps. Boils my blood just a tad.

As I regularly have to remind my RFD friend, you don’t need any qualifications to start a gun shop.

Again, use a gunmaker.

[Velocette]

Snap caps,,,,Pah !  Get a Baikal IZH54 which allows you to lower the hammers gently by opening the gun then pull and hold both triggers when  closing  it. Simple.

[Gordon R]

Quote

That is generally recommended if ‘laying up’ a vehicle for long periods, and was quite common during WW2.

More to do with the tyres than springs. Valve springs are always under tension on at least one cylinder on an engine.

[enfieldspares]

On 23/07/2022 at 13:30, TIGHTCHOKE said:

When sorted get rid of the pointless snap caps.   

+1. Snap caps are for testing if ejectors are timed, They are not for the pointless exercise of "letting down springs".

[Old farrier]

11 hours ago, Old farrier said:

I fully understand and you have my sympathy 

now thinking rationally about this snap cap or cartridges it’s got a problem which seems to be caused by the firing pin 

that’s your starting point 

it maybe just grimy or dirty although possibly it’s bent or not located properly 

One is a clean and polish 

the other is a bit technical as you will probably need parts 

Then you have to work back from there if this doesn’t solve the problem maybe you could post a picture of the problem it would be very helpful 

 

11 hours ago, Old farrier said:

sorry I can’t be more help 

[Gunman]

On 26/07/2022 at 19:06, DUNKS said:

Purdey suggest snap caps be used on all their guns both SXS and OU. Good enough for me.

Purdey sell very expensive snap caps . I'll say no more .

[DUNKS]

3 minutes ago, Gunman said:

Purdey sell very expensive snap caps . I'll say no more .

Hooray for marketing. Thanks.

[Downforce]

On 26/07/2022 at 19:37, Old farrier said:

a very nice gentleman shows your butler or chauffeur

Just realised what I have been doing wrong!

[Fil]

On 23/07/2022 at 13:52, 1Ab said:

How about I get rid of one and keep the other 🤪.  I have not heard convincing enough evidence from either side of this argument. I sit on the fence 

It's a Bettinsoli. It's got the usual bettinsoli symptoms and they have been tinkering with it in an attempt to put it right. 

Bettinsoli o/u's have striker return springs. They should not be "sticking out" except when fired. Years ago a lot would misfire. Normally down to the strength of the return springs taking some of the force away from the main springs. So I would either fit weaker ones or you could get away with cutting a coil or two off them thus making them weaker but still returning the striker into the action. 

If the gun is hard to open when fired IE: strikers sticking in primers or snap caps, then either their is not enough rebound adjusted into the mainsprings or they have messed with the cocking of the gun as guns without adjustable main springs ease the pressure off the strikers as you open the gun thus re cocking it. 

I can't remember what main springs a Bettinsoli has without opening one up and I haven't one to hand.  

As already mentioned. Find a proper gunsmith or a gun maker. 

[1Ab]

Thanks for the info I appreciate it.

I think they did mention at one stage that they did something with a spring that was weak. But they did not clarify if it was the main spring or the striker return spring. 

I'll open it up at some point to identify the issue to the best of my knowledge. And if there is nothing obviously wrong I'll send it to a gunsmith. 

[Gunman]

23 hours ago, Fil said:

Bettinsoli o/u's have striker return springs. They should not be "sticking out" except when fired. Years ago a lot would misfire. Normally down to the strength of the return springs taking some of the force away from the main springs. So I would either fit weaker ones or you could get away with cutting a coil or two off them thus making them weaker but still returning the striker into the action. 

If the gun is hard to open when fired IE: strikers sticking in primers or snap caps, then either their is not enough rebound adjusted into the mainsprings or they have messed with the cocking of the gun as guns without adjustable main springs ease the pressure off the strikers as you open the gun thus re cocking it. 

I can't remember what main springs a Bettinsoli has without opening one up and I haven't one to hand.  

As already mentioned. Find a proper gunsmith or a gun maker. 

Or distorted /worn strikers Or broken striker springs .OR wear on the cocking timing so the hammers are not lifting as soon as the gun is opened or several other things .

Not being funny here but without stripping it down and looking at all the possibilities ,some you may not be aware off or wont realise so any suggestion is a guess at best .

 

Graham [retired gunsmith ]

 

 

[Fil]

On 11/08/2022 at 11:29, Gunman said:

Or distorted /worn strikers Or broken striker springs .OR wear on the cocking timing so the hammers are not lifting as soon as the gun is opened or several other things .

Not being funny here but without stripping it down and looking at all the possibilities ,some you may not be aware off or wont realise so any suggestion is a guess at best .

 

Graham [retired gunsmith ]

 

 

Quite right. But the best suggestion by far is take to some one who knows what they are doing. 

 

Phil (Non retired gunmaker) 

[1Ab]

After finally having some time to strip down the bettinsoli I could not find much wrong initially but then something caught my eye. 

The tang on the forend that pushes the loading bar looks like it has been bodged with a grinder leading me to believe that for what ever reason they have have ground down the tang and thus the hammers do not move back straight away when the gun is opened leaving the stickers in the way.

You can just make out a bit of grinder burn on the edge of the tang. 

If memory serves me right this was not there before.

If anyone has a bettinsoli diamond X can you send me a picture of the tang on the forend to see if it looks the same.

[Newbie to this]

18 minutes ago, 1Ab said:

After finally having some time to strip down the bettinsoli I could not find much wrong initially but then something caught my eye. 

The tang on the forend that pushes the loading bar looks like it has been bodged with a grinder leading me to believe that for what ever reason they have have ground down the tang and thus the hammers do not move back straight away when the gun is opened leaving the stickers in the way.

You can just make out a bit of grinder burn on the edge of the tang. 

If memory serves me right this was not there before.

If anyone has a bettinsoli diamond X can you send me a picture of the tang on the forend to see if it looks the same.

I have a Bettinsoli Xtrail, it looks the same design. I can take a photo tomorrow if you like.

[1Ab]

19 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

have a Bettinsoli Xtrail, it looks the same design. I can take a photo tomorrow if you like.

That will be a great help thank you 

[Gunman]

10 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

I have a Bettinsoli Xtrail, it looks the same design. I can take a photo tomorrow if you like.

Be very careful . A few thou can make a lot of difference as can the radii. Before even thinking about doing anything else you need to check whether the hammers are dead fall or have some rebound ,which is often set with " nuts" on the mainspring guides [ long time since I had one of these part so not sure ].

It is very easy when adjusting the forend cam pressure on the cocking plate or rods  to get it to over cock as well as not cocking early enough or at the right progression  . 

As said previously there are a lot of things to look at and take into consideration for what appears to be a simple problem .