LEAD SHOT an Interesting Viewpoint - Robin Scott article

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Link to an article in SHOOTING UK

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammunition/the-future-of-lead-shot-the-threats-that-lie-ahead-133478?utm_source=Selligent&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=22%2F8%2F13+SUK&utm_content=Copy+of+20220730_YSW-X_NWL_EO&utm_term=815304&m_i=5VZilQXzV78GSt6weEkD3ZbSPUvlYSXykz1Yn53LYCUn8PiDrUV6mkXUe5UOfKRjfwF0tFJObNS76BHnsi%2BViJ2bD2yZI8555z&lrh=3b574575690ed4955e50de6634ef5468df2b76645c54c6e6e34d7911ca419616&M_BT=332486282872

 

The future of lead shot: the threats that lie ahead

Robin Scott August 5, 2022

Robin Scott is not reassured by the shooting organisations’ response to the Health and Safety Executive’s recent pronouncement on the future of lead shot

Many thought that by leaving the European Union the UK would be freed from the shackles of mega-state bureaucracy and win back the ability to set its own laws. In short, paddle our own canoe again. Well …

Yes, small gains have been made since we cast adrift from the Continent, but as the potentially game-changing lead shot review being undertaken by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) clearly proves, we’re still merrily dancing to the union’s tune. All thanks to agreements and protocols signed during our term of membership. (Read more on the EU is moving towards an outright ban on lead shot.)

The future of lead shot
OK, we knew the review was coming because two years ago the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) along with eight other countryside organisations kindly announced on our behalf a five-year, voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting. All neat and dandy, but it transpires the HSE isn’t just interested in gamebirds, woodpigeon, rabbits and deer killed with lead. Or claims it can harm unborn children (as does blue cheese, by the way). It’s also taking a close look at clay pigeon shooting grounds and the possible damage they might be causing to the environment. Oh, and youngsters popping off airgun pellets at an odd rat or two.

I was about to say ‘shock-horror’ at clay shooting’s inclusion in the list, but it was clear from the start that this wonderful recreation would be dragged into the mix and mincer as well. There’s now talk of grounds that can’t recover a high percentage of spent lead shot being forced to go steel-only. Which is all very rich considering the majority of them banned the use of steel years ago on the grounds of ricochet dangers and/or damage to commercial woodland. And those that can recover lead will have to be licensed. So yet more unwanted red tape and bureaucracy at goodness knows what cost to clubs and shooters.

Ah well, let’s look on the bright side. If the worst should happen, then regulation disciplines such as Skeet, Trap and Sportrap on flat field sites with fall-out space for spent shot might be spared. But what of the numerous sporting facilities operating in and over woodland, in steep valleys or close to farmland? Many of our finest grounds with facilities and infrastructures to match could be wiped off the map at a stroke if this review goes to the limit. How many grounds could be lost? Has the Clay Pigeon Shooting Association (CPSA) got a figure?

I’m a long-standing member of this fine organisation yet can’t recall ever reading an article in its magazine Pull! about this upcoming threat or what the association might be doing about it. No need to worry, though. According to a recent statement issued by Iain Parker, the CPSA’s chief executive, the organisation has been working behind the scenes to protect – and fight – for the sport. Really? So why wait so long to give members reassuring news? And what assurances has the association actually been given by those in power? Furthermore, just how far might things go now the HSE has been unleashed on a Euro-backed directive? Your guess is as good as mine.

After waging a relentless and somewhat hypocritical PR war against lead shot – at goodness knows what cost to the membership – BASC says it will, “challenge proposed restrictions where there are no viable alternatives to lead, where socio-economic factors mean a transition isn’t appropriate, and where lead can continue to be used in settings that present negligible or no risk”.

Questions
That’s reassuringly rich of them, but what on earth does this masterful piece of gobbledygook actually mean? You tell me. Hypocritical? Yes. While saying the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting in the countryside is indefensible because of the contamination and birds deaths it causes, how come BASC has continued to allow its widespread use on its own clay lines at green field game and country fairs, and fundraising events? The same applies to some of the other organisations, with clay shoots run for their benefit.

But there’s more. After publicly haranguing UK cartridge makers for not developing non-lead loads fast enough to meet the self-imposed five-year deadline, the organisation now has the brass neck to say it has “significant concerns about the short time frames outlined in the dossier for transition away from the use of lead ammunition, which could be as little as 18 months. This is particularly alarming in light of current global supply-chain issues. We will fight for timelines that are realistic and guided by the sector to ensure that the range of lead-free products and their supply can meet market demands”.

So does this mean it will campaign for a 10-year phase-out period, rather than five, to ensure cartridge manufacturers, and the market, have enough time to deliver exactly what’s needed?

 

And finally: “BASC will be engaging with the regulator to ensure that proposals are robustly scrutinised and that any future restrictions are based on evidence and proportionate to identified risks. We will not accept disproportionate restrictions that unfairly disadvantage shooting activities.”

After helping to let this particular genie out of the jar, that’s going to be a big ask, even coming from the sport’s self-proclaimed ‘voice of shooting’.

So let’s take a knee, give our leaders the benefit of doubt, and hope the HSE is listening.

[Scully]

If ‘any future decisions’ had in fact been based on evidence, as BASC now claims it must be, then we wouldn’t be in this mess. Is it me? 🤷‍♂️

[TIGHTCHOKE]

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

If ‘any future decisions’ had in fact been based on evidence, as BASC now claims it must be, then we wouldn’t be in this mess. Is it me? 🤷‍♂️

No, not at all, we have been "hoodwinked", mislead, lied to or even "sold down the river" by our supposed "shooting organisations"

[Brad93]

Nice article. BASC have a lot to answer for, this mess is their own making. Rolling over and conceding more compromises. You keep making concessions; before you know it, you don't have anything left to give away and the whole thing is dead in the water. 
 

Just another attack on gun ownership in my opinion. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Brad93

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Brad93 said:

Just another attack on gun ownership in my opinion. 

Yes, but from those people we all used to pay to look after our interests!

[Weihrauch17]

BASC is obviously now staffed to a degree at the top level by antis like John Swift was.

[Stonepark]

It's not that they are anti's but that they are trained to collaborate and get along, rather than be seen as the odd man out, combative or as a independent critical thinker and stand up for what a large proportion of their membership to believe in.

Basically, they are, like a lot of politicians malleable by the people who surround them (anti's, government, environment agency, rspb etc etc) and unlike the NRA in the USA will not draw a line in the sand.

Just now, Stonepark said:

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Stonepark

[wymberley]

Oh, I say, steady on!  A few years ago some of these posts would have had some folk screaming 'BASC bashers' but they've seemed to have quietened down now.

[Fisheruk]

I suggest everyone who has an interest provides a response to the HSE consultation. It’s open until 6th November 2022. Your response would be best from an evidence point of view. I for one have tried several non lead air gun pellets and not found any reliably accurate beyond 15 metres. That’s both in sub 12 and FAC. FAC was better than sub 12.Others experience may be different. I’ve personally not found a problem with steel shot on live quarry using 12 or 20g. 
.22lr would be a problem, doesn’t seem to be a great deal of non lead ammo about in the Uk. 17hmr is ok as I already have non lead. Centre fire seems ok in non lead albeit a bit pricey.

[clangerman]

13 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Oh, I say, steady on!  A few years ago some of these posts would have had some folk screaming 'BASC bashers' but they've seemed to have quietened down now.

hard to deny the truth now it’s in their face hope everyone bought a catapult it’s all we are going to end up with 

[London Best]

I hope John Swift has spent the last 25 years looking over his shoulder, nervously.

[Graham M]

53 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Oh, I say, steady on!  A few years ago some of these posts would have had some folk screaming 'BASC bashers' but they've seemed to have quietened down now.

I don't know if anyone on here remembers, but I brought this up years ago. I actually posted an article that John Swift had written in one of the gun magazines, in which he was promoting the use of non-lead shot, in which he ended by saying "We should be seen to be doing the right thing", in regards to the use of lead.

I was lambasted by many members on here and accused of being anti BASC. David BASC, who used to post on this forum was absolutely adamant that BASC had no intentions of trying to get lead banned, and many people on here began to question him about this, only to be assured by David that it was all false.

So BASC was going down this road for years before the lead ban was announced, and now they are claiming to be fighting on our behalf, whilst at the same time recruiting members like mad without any thought to their shooting future.

I simply cannot understand why anyone would pay over the odds to join a shooting organisation that seems hell bent on destroying our sport.

[8 shot]

54 minutes ago, London Best said:

I hope John Swift has spent the last 25 years looking over his shoulder, nervously.

Went to the Gamefair with a coach load of dad's shooting friends many moons ago, and they got into a conversation with him on the BASC stand about the time they were doing the wildfowling ban, god what an arrogant vile man i thought he was. Thought then why would anyone join the BASC if that man was in charge.

3 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Went to the Gamefair with a coach load of dad's shooting friends many moons ago, and they got into a conversation with him on the BASC stand about the time they were doing the wildfowling ban, god what an arrogant vile man i thought he was. Thought then why would anyone join the BASC if that man was in charge.

Also recall I met Jack Chalton at the same Gamefair Chalk and Cheese  characters, got his autogragh somewhere.

Edited August 14, 2022 by 8 shot

[London Best]

Wasn’t Shifty Swifty John Anderton’s nephew? He was a decent type.

Jack Charlton had a reputation as a selfish, greedy, very poor sportsman.

Edited August 14, 2022 by London Best

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I strongly believe that BASC has no place representing our shooting sports.

[McSpredder]

5 hours ago, Fisheruk said:

I suggest everyone who has an interest provides a response to the HSE consultation. It’s open until 6th November 2022. Your response would be best from an evidence point of view.

I agree that as many as possible should respond, but it is not really a consultation at all, because the HSE proposals are based almost entirely on publications from two LAG members (Rhys Green and Deborah Pain), and  nothing emanating from LAG can be criticised.   Note the words of the executive Summary:   “Data which LAG and/or ECHA assessed to be reliable are considered to be of a sufficient standard for inclusion in this report without duplicative detailed review and analysis by the Agency”.   I suspect your response will simply be discarded if you attempt to point out any weaknesses in the evidence.

It might be more effective to write to your MP.   For example, if you are interested in human health, you could point out:

• The website HSE claims “We work collaboratively with other regulators, agencies and government departments”, but in assessing effects of lead on human health the HSE has chosen to exclude all the information published by government nutritionists in relation to meat consumption by very young children, and is relying entirely on the opinions expressed by ornithologists who have neither qualifications nor experience in any branch of health care or human nutrition.  
   
• Furthermore, in a consultation that is largely concerned with effects of lead on the health of children, the HSE has suppressed all evidence from the two UK Government schemes carrying out long-term monitoring of lead exposure in children.
   
• This is an insult to the health professionals whose expertise and accumulations of actual data have been rejected in favour of amateur opinions, and an insult to the taxpayers who have funded the work of all these government bodies.

If your MP happens to be a Conservative, you might add:  “The present government will appear to be an utter shambles unless the Minister can state clearly whether he/she will allow HSE to continue giving precedence to amateurs, or will insist that the various agencies start working together in a professional manner."  

If possible, seek answers to one or two very specific questions, the sort that cannot easily be batted aside (“Would you please ask the Minister to state how many xxxxxxxxxxxxx").    Not easy to find the right form of words, and most politicians can wriggle faster than most worms.

[harkom]

19 hours ago, London Best said:

Wasn’t Shifty Swifty John Anderton’s nephew?

The older generation will recall that Anderton "shoehorned" ****wit into the leadership role at bsac....(.all spelling mistakes entirely intentional.)

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, harkom said:

The older generation will recall that Anderton "shoehorned" ****wit into the leadership role at bsac....(.all spelling mistakes entirely intentional.)

I remember that. Not one of his better decisions.

[Conor O'Gorman]

The article was in Sporting Gun, and they have also published Q&A articles with BASC on the lead restriction proposals in their July and August issues.

Copies of both articles are available to read online using the weblinks below:

Sporting Gun July

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/shooting-answers/burning-questions-about-the-end-of-lead-shot-132223

Sporting Gun August

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammunition/basc-some-tricky-questions-lead-133733

Edited August 15, 2022 by Conor O'Gorman

[Pushandpull]

To my recollection, John Swift got the job in a selection process which also involved John Richards who had worked as Development Officer. I remember coming back from Scotland and meeting up with some friends at the Bridge Hotel to find out if our man (J.R.) had been successful. They were running a young wildfowlers course there and this was before mobile phones.

[London Best]

J.R. would certainly have been a better man for the job.

[Weihrauch17]

Anyone remember the leaked BASC meeting minutes from many years ago agreeing with a Lead Ban, I certainly do and John Swift was actively pursuing it many many years ago.  It would seem they are still bang on track, quite why anyone renews their membership is totally beyond me they are the enemy within and have been for many many years. 

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Anyone remember the leaked BASC meeting minutes from many years ago agreeing with a Lead Ban, I certainly do and John Swift was actively pursuing it many many years ago.  It would seem they are still bang on track, quite why anyone renews their membership is totally beyond me they are the enemy within and have been for many many years. 

The ‘enemy within’? Their agenda being what? 

[Weihrauch17]

Well pushing a Lead Ban won't do anything but seriously harm many branches of our sport especially Rimfire users and Airguners and push up costs for everyone else for absolutely no good reason. I would imagine their agenda is the end of Shooting Sports in the UK by a thousand cuts.  Where were they when Patel introduced Medical Certs for all of us on the back of a heinous crime by someone who should not have had a gun in a million years according to current legislation.  That was very simply a massive Police failure as has nearly every mass shooting by SGC / FAC holders in the UK been.  They are very obviously no longer staffed by people supportive of Field Sports.  If it is all about the food chain then let Commercial shoots and Pigeon shots selling into it use Steel and get off the backs of everyone else but very obviously it is nothing to do with that. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[Scully]

38 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Well pushing a Lead Ban won't do anything but seriously harm many branches of our sport especially Rimfire users and Airguners and push up costs for everyone else for absolutely no good reason. I would imagine their agenda is the end of Shooting Sports in the UK by a thousand cuts.  Where were they when Patel introduced Medical Certs for all of us on the back of a heinous crime by someone who should not have had a gun in a million years according to current legislation.  That was very simply a massive Police failure as has nearly every mass shooting by SGC / FAC holders in the UK been.  They are very obviously no longer staffed by people supportive of Field Sports.  If it is all about the food chain then let Commercial shoots and Pigeon shots selling into it use Steel and get off the backs of everyone else but very obviously it is nothing to do with that. 

I’m no fan of BASC at all, but just think through what you’ve written regarding their agenda being the end of UK shooting.