should i ..shant i..?

[Fisheruk]

Well I’m booked in for number 5 next week. Absolutely no side effects with any of the others. There are still plenty of people around with Covid 

[ordnance]

10 hours ago, tweedledee said:

Amen......folk need to research these jabs better....just look at stillbirth ,miscarriage rates in Europe let alone excess deaths appearing now.....there's a massive elephant in the room that the MSM are ignoring.....it's been 2 years of constant brainwashing,I've been mocked and abused for my stance..I have men telling me weekly they wished they hadn't taken their jabs now....just lookk round and see who is taking COVID and ask yourselves if they're jabbed it not???? Do the sums for yourselves.....

Unlike you i think most adults are capable of doing their own research like they would do with any medication they were asked to take and make their own minds up. But typically some out there, usually conspiracists think they are smarter than everyone else and know something they need to preach to others. Let people make their own minds up take it or leave it their choice. PS I am a male and contrary to what some would tell you these days i don't think i will get pregnant so even if true which i doubt, i don't think miscarriage will be a issue for me. 

Fact check 

VERDICT

Missing context. There is no evidence to suggest COVID-19 vaccines increase the risk of miscarriage. Data cited in the blog post has missed crucial context related to the overall number of vaccinations administered in the time frame, along with the number of miscarriages expected to occur among the population.

Quote

just lookk round and see who is taking COVID and ask yourselves if they're jabbed it not????

You have lost me with that, its well known and well publicised that the vaccine will not prevent you catching Covid but it can help prevent serious illness.  Again take it or leave it.  

Edited September 24, 2022 by ordnance

[tweedledee]

40 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Unlike you i think most adults are capable of doing their own research like they would do with any medication they were asked to take and make their own minds up. But typically some out there, usually conspiracists think they are smarter than everyone else and know something they need to preach to others. Let people make their own minds up take it or leave it their choice. PS I am a male and contrary to what some would tell you these days i don't think i will get pregnant so even if true which i doubt, i don't think miscarriage will be a issue for me. 

Fact check 

VERDICT

Missing context. There is no evidence to suggest COVID-19 vaccines increase the risk of miscarriage. Data cited in the blog post has missed crucial context related to the overall number of vaccinations administered in the time frame, along with the number of miscarriages expected to occur among the population.

You have lost me with that, its well known and well publicised that the vaccine will not prevent you catching Covid but it can help prevent serious illness.  Again take it or leave it.  

Good luck.youre entitled to your opinion as I am mine

[ordnance]

55 minutes ago, tweedledee said:

Good luck.youre entitled to your opinion as I am mine

[serrac]

11 hours ago, ordnance said:

Unlike you i think most adults are capable of doing their own research like they would do with any medication they were asked to take and make their own minds up. But typically some out there, usually conspiracists think they are smarter than everyone else and know something they need to preach to others. Let people make their own minds up take it or leave it their choice. PS I am a male and contrary to what some would tell you these days i don't think i will get pregnant so even if true which i doubt, i don't think miscarriage will be a issue for me. 

The OP asked for arguments for and against vaccination. 
You are the one trying to deny people the opportunity to make informed choices by attempting to stifle viewpoints contrary to your own.

 

11 hours ago, ordnance said:

Fact check 

VERDICT

Missing context. There is no evidence to suggest COVID-19 vaccines increase the risk of miscarriage. Data cited in the blog post has missed crucial context related to the overall number of vaccinations administered in the time frame, along with the number of miscarriages expected to occur among the population.

Please cite your source along with a statement of their funding sources. 
If they derive any funding from Government or any organisation associated with Pharma or the Gates foundation etc, then we can assign them firmly to the "laughable" category.

In any case the "fact check" you quoted looks like it was specifically targeted at analysis of the released Pfizer documents so doesn't even begin to address the "stillbirth/miscarriage rates in europe" cited by tweedledee.  Nice attempt at misdirection there.

My daughter and daughter-in-law wouldn't even have a glass of wine when they were pregnant. but yeah go right ahead and flood your body with pathogenic spike proteins - what could possibly go wrong?

 

11 hours ago, ordnance said:

You have lost me with that, its well known and well publicised that the vaccine will not prevent you catching Covid but it can help prevent serious illness.  Again take it or leave it.  

"well known ...it can help prevent serious illness"?
please cite the the data sources you rely on to make this statement?

[ordnance]

Quote

The OP asked for arguments for and against vaccination. 
You are the one trying to deny people the opportunity to make informed choices by attempting to stifle viewpoints contrary to your own.

No i am saying people are capable of making their own minds up when it comes to medications and health care. Personally i would be asking my doctor or other health care professionals, rather that people like you posting conspiracy theories from the twilight zone of the internet. But you think you know something that the rest of us uneducated don't know and feel the need enlighten us with your superior knowledge. My view, its down to the induvial take it or leave their choice. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by ordnance

[RyanMc]

49 minutes ago, ordnance said:

No i am saying people are capable of making their own minds up when it comes to medications and health care. Personally i would be asking my doctor or other health care professionals, rather that people like you posting conspiracy theories from the twilight zone of the internet. But you think you know something that the rest of us uneducated don't know and feel the need enlighten us with your superior knowledge. My view, its down to the induvial take it or leave their choice. 

As mentioned before in this thread... there really wasn't much choice for workplace settings (I believe it stopped short of all workplaces when it was deemed there would be a riot) such as hospitals etc. No choice when you had to show proof of a vaccine to travel anywhere, restaurants etc. But yes a veil of a choice is there, but coercion, exclusion is not a choice. 

[ordnance]

8 minutes ago, RyanMc said:

As mentioned before in this thread... there really wasn't much choice for workplace settings (I believe it stopped short of all workplaces when it was deemed there would be a riot) such as hospitals etc. No choice when you had to show proof of a vaccine to travel anywhere, restaurants etc. But yes a veil of a choice is there, but coercion, exclusion is not a choice. 

I am not aware of anyone having to get a Covid booster, who do you that has to get a Covid booster their could be a few exceptions. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by ordnance

[serrac]

13 hours ago, ordnance said:

I am not aware of anyone having to get a Covid booster, who do you that has to get a Covid booster their could be a few exceptions. 

Mostly travel related *at present*

Anyone who has to travel internationally as part of their occupation.
Anyone who works on a cruise ship.

[serrac]

14 hours ago, ordnance said:

No i am saying people are capable of making their own minds up when it comes to medications and health care.

And how did that work out for the people who blindly took thalidamide, vioxx, oxycontin?
In fairness to many of them the damaging side effects only became apparent when it was too late (as has been the case for numerous Covid jabbed already).
There are now numerous indicators the Covid jab is counterproductive for health and people deserve to be fully informed before they decide anything.
 

Personally i would be asking my doctor or other health care professionals,

How about these health care professionals:
https://doctors4covidethics.org/doctors-for-covid-ethics-signatories/

Founding signatories

Professor Sucharit Bhakdi MD, Professor Emeritus of Medical Microbiology and Immunology, Former Chair, Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hygiene, Johannes Gutenberg University of Mainz (Medical Doctor and Scientist) (Germany and Thailand)

Dr. Marco Chiesa MD FRCPsych, Consultant Psychiatrist and Visiting Professor, University College London (Medical Doctor) (the United Kingdom and Italy)

Dr. C Stephen Frost BSc MBChB, Specialist in Diagnostic Radiology, Stockholm, Sweden (Medical Doctor) (the United Kingdom and Sweden)

Dr. Margareta Griesz-Brisson MD PhD, Consultant Neurologist and Neurophysiologist (studied Medicine in Freiburg, Germany, specialty training for Neurology at New York University, Fellowship in Neurophysiology at Mount Sinai Medical Centre, New York City; PhD in Pharmacology with special interest in chronic low-level neurotoxicology and effects of environmental factors on brain health), Medical Director, The London Neurology and Pain Clinic (Medical Doctor and Scientist) (Germany and United Kingdom)

Professor Martin Haditsch MD PhD, Specialist (Austria) in Hygiene and Microbiology, Specialist (Germany) in Microbiology, Virology, Epidemiology/Infectious Diseases, Specialist (Austria) in Infectious Diseases and Tropical Medicine, Medical Director, TravelMedCenter, Leonding, Austria, Medical Director, Labor Hannover MVZ GmbH (Medical Doctor and Scientist) (Austria and Germany)

Professor Stefan Hockertz, Professor of Toxicology and Pharmacology, European registered Toxicologist, Specialist in Immunology and Immunotoxicology, CEO tpi consult GmbH. (Scientist) (Germany)

Dr. Lissa Johnson, BBSc (Psychology and Psychobiology) BA(Media) MPsych(Clin) PhD, Clinical Psychologist and Behavioural Scientist, Thesis in neuroimmunology, PhD in shaping reality-perception, Expertise in the social psychology of atrocity, torture, collective violence and propaganda, former professional body Public Interest Advisory Group member (Psychologist) (Australia)

Professor Ulrike Kämmerer PhD, Associate Professor of Experimental Reproductive Immunology and Tumor Biology at the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, University Hospital of Würzburg, Germany, Trained molecular virologist (Diploma, PhD-Thesis) and Immunologist (Habilitation), Remains engaged in active laboratory research (Molecular Biology, Cell Biology) (Scientist) (Germany)

Associate Professor Michael Palmer MD, Department of Chemistry (studied Medicine and Medical Microbiology in Germany, has taught Biochemistry since 2001 in present university in Canada); focus on Pharmacology, metabolism, biological membranes, computer programming; experimental research focuses on bacterial toxins and antibiotics (Daptomycin); has written a textbook on Biochemical Pharmacology, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada (Medical Doctor and Scientist) (Canada and Germany)

Professor Karina Reiss PhD, Professor of Biochemistry, Christian Albrecht University of Kiel, Expertise in Cell Biology, Biochemistry (Scientist) (Germany)

Professor Andreas Sönnichsen MD, Professor of General Practice and Family Medicine, Department of General Practice and Family Medicine, Center of Public Health, Medical University of Vienna, Vienna (Medical Doctor) (Austria)

Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg, Specialist in Pulmonary and Bronchial Internal Medicine, Hygiene and Environmental Medicine, Epidemiology, and Public Health; Honorary Member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and former Head of the Health Committee of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe; former Member of Parliament, German Bundestag; Initiator and Spokesman for the study commission ‘Ethics and Law in Modern Medicine’; Author and University Lecturer (Medical Doctor) (Germany)

Dr. Michael Yeadon BSc (Joint Honours in Biochemistry and Toxicology) PhD (Pharmacology), Formerly Vice President & Chief Scientific Officer Allergy & Respiratory, Pfizer Global R&D; Co-founder & CEO, Ziarco Pharma Ltd.; Independent Consultant (Scientist) (United Kingdom)

rather that people like you posting conspiracy theories from the twilight zone of the internet.

You obviously don't understand what a conspiracy theory actually is.
Highlighting concerns about a medical intervention does nor require belief in or promotion of a conspiracy theory.
When Dr. Alexander Leslie Florence first raised questions about the safety of thalidamide, did that make him a conspiracy theorist?
After all the prevailing view at the time was that thalidamide was "safe and effective".

But you think you know something that the rest of us uneducated don't know and feel the need enlighten us with your superior knowledge. My view, its down to the induvial take it or leave their choice. 

I can't help that you're uneducated but it would probably be best if you stayed out of discussions which are above your capabilities 😁

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by serrac

[udderlyoffroad]

5 minutes ago, serrac said:

Anyone who has to travel internationally as part of their occupation.

This.

I had a choice: Take the "vaccine" + boosters or seek new employment.  I appear to be fine so far.  Will try not to make that mistake again.

[ordnance]

7 hours ago, serrac said:

 

 

 

And you think you are the one to fully inform people, it's as well have people like you to keep us all informed  👍 as we can't do our own research and make decisions for ourselves.

7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

This.

I had a choice: Take the "vaccine" + boosters or seek new employment.  I appear to be fine so far.  Will try not to make that mistake again.

You had to get the upcoming booster, that we are discussing ?

[ordnance]

8 hours ago, serrac said:

Mostly travel related *at present*

Anyone who has to travel internationally as part of their occupation.
Anyone who works on a cruise ship.

You have to have the upcoming booster to travel, so if you don't qualify for the booster you can't travel internationally 🤔

[marsh man]

On 22/09/2022 at 12:27, ditchman said:

yup thats me to.........all my aches and pains ...stiff knees and ankles ..painful shoulders...feeling run down sometimes ...multipul low grade chest infections.......all seem to stem from the time of my 1st covid jab...............

i have one part of me sayin ...dont be stupid and get the jab.......and the other part is sayin...enough is enough ..im fed up up being under par all the time....i monitor my SATS regular and they can go from 89% ...to 97%.....very up and down

We had our fourth one last night at the J P H , we booked up on line on Saturday night and could have had any time slot throughout the day , the hospital itself was very good as we were in and out in 25 minutes and that included siting about for over 10 minutes as I was the driver .

Today both me and my wife were full of aches and pains and this was the worse reaction out of the three previous ones , mind you I wasn't in the best of nick before I went and had the jab , this was mainly due to a bit of a cold I have had this last week , what we also have to take in account is we are not getting any younger and like the Queen we cannot go on for ever feeling 100% all the time .

I have been out today with my dog so I am not bedridden or anything like that , but it is a matter of rest and a bit of play and time the next one id due ,( if there is a next one ) then depending if the virus is still active or weather it is no longer a threat I will more than likely in giving the next one a miss , a case of wait and see . 

[Walker570]

Will not be having a fourth.  as most of you know I and my wife are over the 80 mark but in general fit and well apart from normal aches and pains due to aging limbs.

A friend had all of the jabs, flew to Iceland and caught it on the plane and was laid up for a couple of days.  I don't do pubs and clubs or mix with large groups and both of us are willing to miss out as we do with flu jabs. Cannot remember ever having flu.  Sniffy cold occasionally that's about it.

At the end of the day it is a personal decision plus based on your physical health....obese diabetic smoker...probably a good idea.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Walker570

[marsh man]

8 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Will not be having a fourth.  as most of you know I and my wife are over the 80 mark but in general fit and well apart from normal aches and pains due to aging limbs.

A friend had all of the jabs, flew to Iceland and caught it on the plane and was laid up for a couple of days.  I don't do pubs and clubs or mix with large groups and both of us are willing to miss out as we do with flu jabs. Cannot remember ever having flu.  Sniffy cold occasionally that's about it.

At the end of the day it is a personal decision plus based on your physical health....obese diabetic smoker...probably a good idea.

You both have done well to reach 80+ and both in reasonable health , not all by any means, but I find a lot of people who have spent most of there lives in the countryside seem to live a ripe ole age , this might be down to getting plenty of fresh air and exercise , the last funeral I went to was our ole head game keeper and he was nearly 95 , we also had a couple who had been married over 70 years , one reached nearly 101 and the other one passed away at 99 and in his low 90s he could bend over a lot better than I could .

When is your first day this season and at what ?

[Walker570]

50 minutes ago, marsh man said:

You both have done well to reach 80+ and both in reasonable health , not all by any means, but I find a lot of people who have spent most of there lives in the countryside seem to live a ripe ole age , this might be down to getting plenty of fresh air and exercise , the last funeral I went to was our ole head game keeper and he was nearly 95 , we also had a couple who had been married over 70 years , one reached nearly 101 and the other one passed away at 99 and in his low 90s he could bend over a lot better than I could .

When is your first day this season and at what ?

This Saturday, just a small 100 bird day probably a mixed bag which is usual at Prestwold,  but to be honest numbers mean nothing to me, just being out with like minded folk is what it is all about. I have to admit I do appreciate some help getting to my peg these days as the old legs don't move as well as they did 40 years ago round the Welsh Hills.

Yes we have been very fortunate and lucky in our lives so these days we...🎵 just give a little whistle and always look on the bright side 🎵

[Peteg]

10 hours ago, serrac said:

Mostly travel related *at present*

Anyone who has to travel internationally as part of their occupation.
Anyone who works on a cruise ship.

Yup. I’d probably still have my job if I said no to the jabs.  
 But I’d have no work away as lots of places wouldn’t let me on with proof of a negatives test and vaccine record

[serrac]

12 hours ago, ordnance said:

  👍 as we can't do our own research and make decisions for ourselves

 
You are happy to post snippets from fact checking sites as if they are absolute truth.
Is that not you trying to "inform" people as you assume they can't do their own research and make decisions for themselves?
After all fact check sites are the easiest "research" of all to find - they always come up first on Google searches so there's hardly a need to ever post their content here.

Edited September 27, 2022 by serrac

[ordnance]

20 hours ago, Peteg said:

10 hours ago, serrac said:

 
You are happy to post snippets from fact checking sites as if they are absolute truth.
Is that not you trying to "inform" people as you assume they can't do their own research and make decisions for themselves?
After all fact check sites are the easiest "research" of all to find - they always come up first on Google searches so there's hardly a need to ever post their content here.

 

As opposed to you posting conspiracy nonsense, it's also easy to find with a Google search. You are right I am not trying to inform people, I think grow adults can inform themselves. You seem to feel the need to post antivax nonsense for some reason, but If it makes you feel better/ important go for it.

20 hours ago, Peteg said:

Yup. I’d probably still have my job if I said no to the jabs.  
 But I’d have no work away as lots of places wouldn’t let me on with proof of a negatives test and vaccine record

That was then, this is a booster available to some. Having or not having it will not effect travel or employment.

[serrac]

3 hours ago, ordnance said:

I think grow adults can inform themselves.

If you really believed that you wouldn't feel the need to go on the attack whenever someone posts something that calls the jab into question.
You'd be confident to stand back and let people identify the "antivax nonsense" for themselves if it's that obvious.

[Deker]

I received the text yesterday, I won't be getting one, no other reason than I think at some point we (read I) need to stop relying on jabs and let our body build up a natural defence, I have asthma which doesn't bother me at all so at no real risk, I've had covid and fortunately for me it was very mild (I've seriously had worse hangovers).

For others, if you want it crack on and if you don't want it crack on... now that the world isn't locked down under threat of jabs it doesn't really matter which camp you're in

[mossy835]

i will be giving this one a miss as well.

[Scully]

5 minutes ago, Deker said:

I received the text yesterday, I won't be getting one, no other reason than I think at some point we (read I) need to stop relying on jabs and let our body build up a natural defence, I have asthma which doesn't bother me at all so at no real risk, I've had covid and fortunately for me it was very mild (I've seriously had worse hangovers).

For others, if you want it crack on and if you don't want it crack on... now that the world isn't locked down under threat of jabs it doesn't really matter which camp you're in

I received the text a few days ago and am booked in for the booster and flu jab in Nov sometime. 
Like you say, if you want it get it, if not then don’t. 🤷‍♂️ 
Just talking to a mate yesterday who is heading off to N. Zealand next month for 6 months, for the first time since lockdown. He’s having his before he goes; he has no choice if he wants to go. 

[Gordon R]

Not sure why ordnance appears to be getting stick. His post have been sensible, unlike some others.