Should we shoot foxes?

[kitchrat]

Should we shoot foxes (with landowners permission and out of sight of The Public of course) if we get the chance? I see from GL40 that we can shoot jays and maypies to protect songbirds etc I also see that the RSPB are saying that putting down lots of gamebirds helps support a larger fox population than normal, which impacts on songbirds and ground-nesting birds in general. Of course, this ignores the efforts of gamekeepers to control the fox population, which seem to be very effective. I rarely see a fox when beating game covers.

The RSPB admit to shooting 100's:

So, should we take on another task, in the name of conservation??

Yes, pigeons have gone to ground, hence starting another topic!

Cheers,

[Walker570]

I have a fox that uses my wood and I don't harrass it. It is part of nature.  On a farm where I control vermin there are more foxes than needs and the farmer asks me to control the numbers. It is also on the edge of a built up area so we get a lot of urban foxes as well.  Shame not to see the odd fox about but once they get to silly proportions like badgers or even deer and wild boar, then control is required.  It will be interesting to see how the RSPCA handle the wild boar once they arrive in their area, which they will.

We have upset the balance of nature, we humans as well as causing all the pollution in the world but we keep producing and enlarging the world population.

[Ultrastu]

I dont think nature -  in a totally natural state, is ever balanced . It goes from boom to bust .excess and then famine  . Just think of locust in there billions  and then gone for 3 years .just to return . I think humans actually create more balance In the natural world than we give our selves credit for . Not in all areas obviously  but in many ,and pigeons and crows are a very good example .left totally alone the populations would explode and then later  crash when either a  lack of food source or disease  happen .  

[Fellside]

I think Ultrastu makes a good point. Seldom is nature in balance - there is a constant state of flux. Also, we have a managed countryside - therefore managed intervention is continually necessary for conservation. As the fox no longer has tertiary predators (wolves, lynx and bears etc) it’s UK population would explode without general culling. Short of having bears and wolves roaming the urban fringes, the only practical control mechanism is shooting. 

[dessyb]

i have not shot a fox on any of my permissions for over5 yrs. it has had no effect what so ever some have sheep others are game shoots

[RyanMc]

22 minutes ago, dessyb said:

i have not shot a fox on any of my permissions for over5 yrs. it has had no effect what so ever some have sheep others are game shoots

I have noticed in the space of 18 months a difference in the small permission areas I access, pheasants, woodcock, snipe & rabbits etc. have shown up in greater numbers in that time. Probably an increase in the number of mice and rats as a consequence but I have had no reports of this or cause for concern from the farmers.

[bumpy22]

I have been controlling foxes in one way or another since I was old enough to walk with my dad. Seen the damage they do and witness there clever brain in doing so.

For anyone to say that they don't need controlling needs to spend more time looking at nature and the small eco system we live in on a small island. 

I have more respect for foxes than I do most of the humans I meet. But without control I think it be very costly.

On the subject of releasing game birds and higher numbers of foxes. This I believe will be correct. if you supply a food source they will come as anyone that keeps poultry will know. But its how they are managed. As the gentleman said above nothing better than seeing a fox in woodland. Providing its not by one of my pens. 

The fox is the most adaptable and opportunist creature on our planet. We need to respect it for this. But also control it when needed

[Walker570]

bumpy22  I don't believe I have ever been called or considered a gentleman but agree with everything you say. 75 -80years ago my Grandfather controlled them with half an egg laced with strychnine which you could buy from the chemists shop in the village on the poisons register.  The little glass jar was on a high shelf in the back hallway of the farmhouse along with a large tub of blackpowder with strict instructions not to touch either.  I think a rifle bullet is preferable.

[old'un]

33 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

bumpy22  I don't believe I have ever been called or considered a gentleman but agree with everything you say. 75 -80years ago my Grandfather controlled them with half an egg laced with strychnine which you could buy from the chemists shop in the village on the poisons register.  The little glass jar was on a high shelf in the back hallway of the farmhouse along with a large tub of blackpowder with strict instructions not to touch either.  I think a rifle bullet is preferable.

It was the go to poison in the day and it wasn't just eggs that were laced with it, remember on old keeper (now long dead) who used it for just about anything he did not want on his patch, I used to-be a bit nervous when on his ground with the dog, I asked him once why he was using it and he said...”lad, if something eats that rabbit then its more than likely going to eat my birds”.

[old man]

3 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

I dont think nature -  in a totally natural state, is ever balanced . It goes from boom to bust .excess and then famine  . Just think of locust in there billions  and then gone for 3 years .just to return . I think humans actually create more balance In the natural world than we give our selves credit for . Not in all areas obviously  but in many ,and pigeons and crows are a very good example .left totally alone the populations would explode and then later  crash when either a  lack of food source or disease  happen .  

That is the natural state, boom and bust. Red in tooth and claw?

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, dessyb said:

i have not shot a fox on any of my permissions for over5 yrs. it has had no effect what so ever some have sheep others are game shoots

Somebody else will be controlling them in the wider area - they do travel quite widely. Be in no doubt re damage to wildlife if their numbers are permitted to boom. The young of any ground nesting birds just become a quick and easy fox treat!

[jall25]

2 hours ago, dessyb said:

i have not shot a fox on any of my permissions for over5 yrs. it has had no effect what so ever some have sheep others are game shoots

With the advent of thermal it is increasingly obvious the number and damage that foxes actually do 

Sometimes when people have multiple permissions they are not on the ground enough to see what is happening - and almost skim the top of the land rather than get really into it. 

How do you judge it has no effect ?

We monitor the birds by counts and since we stepped up fox and indeed corvid control have seen marked upswings in number of those and indeed hares too.

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, jall25 said:

With the advent of thermal it is increasingly obvious the number and damage that foxes actually do 

Sometimes when people have multiple permissions they are not on the ground enough to see what is happening - and almost skim the top of the land rather than get really into it. 

How do you judge it has no effect ?

We monitor the birds by counts and since we stepped up fox and indeed corvid control have seen marked upswings in number of those and indeed hares too.

Couldn’t agree more. The title of this thread is a silly question really. 

[JKD]

The answer is simply yes,,,, where necessary 🙄

[Fellside]

13 minutes ago, JKD said:

The answer is simply yes,,,, where necessary 🙄

You were on to something with: “The answer is simply yes”. You lost me on the “where necessary”.

[Sweet11-87]

the UK is only 13% woodland and less than 20% of that is ancient woodland  e.g developed as it would have done so if we were never here.  the whole island is pretty much man made so we have to manage the whole thing really. we introduced or eradicated far too much of the flora and fauna long before any of us were alive to just let it crack on now, the results would be catastrophic.  thats the kicker for me. rspb, natural england, the forestry commission, APHA and all the rest activly shoot as a managment tool for conservation yet none of them have been very public in defence of shooting or shooters becasue they dont want to get any mud on them.

[jall25]

7 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

the UK is only 13% woodland and less than 20% of that is ancient woodland  e.g developed as it would have done so if we were never here.  the whole island is pretty much man made so we have to manage the whole thing really. we introduced or eradicated far too much of the flora and fauna long before any of us were alive to just let it crack on now, the results would be catastrophic.  thats the kicker for me. rspb, natural england, the forestry commission, APHA and all the rest activly shoot as a managment tool for conservation yet none of them have been very public in defence of shooting or shooters becasue they dont want to get any mud on them.

Yes - i sometimes highlight these facts on RSPB instagram page 

[kitchrat]

Well, we got the keypads smoking anyway! My real point was that the RSPCA and others condemn us for shooting animals but when it suits them, they do the same. If they were honest, they would applaud keepers for controlling foxes.

Of course, it's just the same when the help given to songbirds etc by game covers and feeders is "overlooked" by our critics.

(called Hypocrisy I think!) 

[Eddie B]

21 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

the UK is only 13% woodland and less than 20% of that is ancient woodland  e.g developed as it would have done so if we were never here.  the whole island is pretty much man made so we have to manage the whole thing really. we introduced or eradicated far too much of the flora and fauna long before any of us were alive to just let it crack on now, the results would be catastrophic.  thats the kicker for me. rspb, natural england, the forestry commission, APHA and all the rest activly shoot as a managment tool for conservation yet none of them have been very public in defence of shooting or shooters becasue they dont want to get any mud on them.

This post is spot on 👍