Ideal gun weight

[Lloyd90]

10 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, interesting post Loyd , I've shot O/U  around 8llb ( clays) down to Side by Sides around 6llb, for the type of shooting you mention my thoughts are around 7llb , my present O/U is 6.5 LLB but I am not shooting that much these times so I can reduce weight and cartridge to 28 g , one other point is do Beretta have a light game O/U around 7 LLB ?

Their “field” (game) model as noted above seems to be 7.5 lb and the “sporter” model a tad under 8lb … I saw 2 in the shop at Ian Coleys and when out on the scale the field was heavier than the sporter for those 2 guns they had in. 

[Westley]

12 hours ago, London Best said:

Does your Westley Richards kick like a mule, and does it weigh 7lbs?

I would bet the answer to both questions is no.

You are quite right  !  I have used 32 gram 5's on high pheasants, without any ill effects. The gun weighs 6lbs3ozs.  BUT IT HAS BEEN FITTED BY WESTLEY'S and that is where the secret lies.

[Gunman]

I do not and have never been of the school of thought that you can have one gun to shoot all disciplines or kinds of shooting . 

So many variables .You size , your weight ,  your physical strength , what you want to shoot, where you shoot , walking / standing ,what loads you like , what feels comfortable to you , do want a gun for specific needs or looking for an all rounder ?

That said having shot a very wide variety of guns of many different makes I can assure you that for me , some kicked like mules ,some not so  much .A lot has to with gun fit and your shooting style as well as cartridge compatibility .

Then down to the whole and often blown out of proportion topic of balance .This will depend on the gun ,O/U SxS and the way the gun is made ,boxlock , sidelock etc. IMO its not if a gun balances on the hinge pin in as traditionally excepted , but where the weight feels between your hands .Longer barrels with multi chokes will tend to be barrel heavy hence IMO the trend for longer barrels for so called better swing .

Sorry for the ramble but it is a question I have argued for many years , I have handled thousands [I mean that quite literally ] of guns .Some seemed to be alive in my hands as if they wanted to be shot , others felt little better than a lumps of wood .Even with guns of the same make and model one  ,could for no discernible   reason  could feel so much better than another.

My conclusion ,after many years  and taking all the outlined factors into consideration ,comes down to if it feels right its probobly the one for you .

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, Westley said:

You are quite right  !  I have used 32 gram 5's on high pheasants, without any ill effects. The gun weighs 6lbs3ozs.  BUT IT HAS BEEN FITTED BY WESTLEY'S and that is where the secret lies.

Indeed the old late Victorian and early Edwardian period standard load was it seems, and it is advised in Letters to Young Sportsmen by Payne-Gallwey an 1 1/8 oz of English #5. My late father used nothing else in the Henry Clarke. Usually paper cased Sellier and Bellot Mark II. It's only later that Payne-Gallwey comes to advocate 1 oz of English #7.

1 hour ago, Gunman said:

IMO its not if a gun balances on the hinge pin in as traditionally excepted , but where the weight feels between your hands .

It's why many such as Gough Thomas praised the Greener GP. The "half weight" (that is half of the total weight of the gun) is within a quarter of the total overall length of the gun of either side of the balance point Or as he explained "between your hands".

[JohnfromUK]

33 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

The "half weight" (that is half of the total weight of the gun) is within a quarter of the total overall length of the gun of either side of the balance point Or as he explained "between your hands".

The Darne is another example of this.  It is light (my 12 weights around 6 lbs, but 16's are also common and are lighter) - but the weight is also very centralised.  This has been done by;

1. Short(ish) barrels, typically 27" and only a single rib (no lower rib)
2. No separate forend (like a muzzle loader)
3. Most weight is in the central sliding breech assembly
4. The stock tends to be on the slim side compared to most s/s guns

When picked up 'in the shop', the Darne feels lightning fast compared to most s/s guns.  It is lovely to carry on the arm.  The downside is that (and mine fits me reasonably well) it does kick, but also has noticeable barrel 'upward flip'.  I bought mine more out of interest (it was used and slightly 'abused' and was not expensive at all at the time) about 40 years ago and had it tidied up and 'fitted' in as much as is possible with a Darne (the way the stock is fitted means that once 'made', the 'hand' area cannot be bent).

My personal preference for weight (on a s/s) is around 6lbs 8 oz to 6 lbs 12 oz.  This is based on having owned several s/s and that just seems to feel 'right' for me.  Interestingly, one English gun I have at 6 lb 12oz feels as light or lighter than another (Spanish) gun that is 4 oz lighter.  Both are nice to use.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Gunman said:

I do not and have never been of the school of thought that you can have one gun to shoot all disciplines or kinds of shooting . 

So many variables .You size , your weight ,  your physical strength , what you want to shoot, where you shoot , walking / standing ,what loads you like , what feels comfortable to you , do want a gun for specific needs or looking for an all rounder ?

That said having shot a very wide variety of guns of many different makes I can assure you that for me , some kicked like mules ,some not so  much .A lot has to with gun fit and your shooting style as well as cartridge compatibility .

Then down to the whole and often blown out of proportion topic of balance .This will depend on the gun ,O/U SxS and the way the gun is made ,boxlock , sidelock etc. IMO its not if a gun balances on the hinge pin in as traditionally excepted , but where the weight feels between your hands .Longer barrels with multi chokes will tend to be barrel heavy hence IMO the trend for longer barrels for so called better swing .

Sorry for the ramble but it is a question I have argued for many years , I have handled thousands [I mean that quite literally ] of guns .Some seemed to be alive in my hands as if they wanted to be shot , others felt little better than a lumps of wood .Even with guns of the same make and model one  ,could for no discernible   reason  could feel so much better than another.

My conclusion ,after many years  and taking all the outlined factors into consideration ,comes down to if it feels right its probobly the one for you .

This. It’s so subjectively personal I’m not sure anyone could give a definitive answer. 

[Westley]

2 hours ago, Gunman said:

I do not and have never been of the school of thought that you can have one gun to shoot all disciplines or kinds of shooting 

 

My sentiments entirely..........now if I can just convince SWMBO    !    😄

[silver fox 1]

On 25/01/2023 at 20:25, Lloyd90 said:

Their “field” (game) model as noted above seems to be 7.5 lb and the “sporter” model a tad under 8lb … I saw 2 in the shop at Ian Coleys and when out on the scale the field was heavier than the sporter for those 2 guns they had in. 

Hi Loyd, I done exactly what you’re thinking of doing in April 2021 I went to Chris potters in Kent and bought a silver pigeon 3

they had three guns in two sporting and a game gun I went originally to buy the game gun but when they put them on the scales, the sporting gun weighed the same as the game gun but the sporting felt more comfortable and balanced exactly on the hinge pin, I ended up buying the sporting and bought flush fitting chokes, I shot it for a year and then had it fitted i’m really pleased with the way things have turned out.

I think the weight of a gun is a personal thing as we are all built different, for all, for all I know you could be 6 foot seven and built like a brick all i can tell you from my experience is the gun, doesn’t feel heavy because of weight is in between my hands and all guns are not built the same they’re all different which I’m sure you’re aware of probably the best advice I can give you is go to a gun shop and try as many, as you can 

all the best, and let us know how you get on

Edited January 29, 2023 by silver fox 1

[Lloyd90]

6 hours ago, silver fox 1 said:

Hi Loyd, I done exactly what you’re thinking of doing in April 2021 I went to Chris potters in Kent and bought a silver pigeon 3

they had three guns in two sporting and a game gun I went originally to buy the game gun but when they put them on the scales, the sporting gun weighed the same as the game gun but the sporting felt more comfortable and balanced exactly on the hinge pin, I ended up buying the sporting and bought flush fitting chokes, I shot it for a year and then had it fitted i’m really pleased with the way things have turned out.

I think the weight of a gun is a personal thing as we are all built different, for all, for all I know you could be 6 foot seven and built like a brick all i can tell you from my experience is the gun, doesn’t feel heavy because of weight is in between my hands and all guns are not built the same they’re all different which I’m sure you’re aware of probably the best advice I can give you is go to a gun shop and try as many, as you can 

all the best, and let us know how you get on

I went out the other day with my AYA side by side and some newly acquired Eley Impax 28g 7’s … took two nice birds for 2 shots and then missed a bird right in front that the dog flushed off his nose … the dog looked at me with disgust 🤣 

 

I think I may not bother with a new Silver Pigeon. 
 

It’s not so much the weight in the hand, it’s carrying them for 1-2 hours through boggy ground or clay soil that makes your feet like lead, then being whippy enough to flip up and drop a bird that flushes and may be your only chance all day. 
 

I hit one such cracker today with the SxS, hence the current idea I don’t need a new gun 🤣

[ditchman]

24 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I went out the other day with my AYA side by side and some newly acquired Eley Impax 28g 7’s … took two nice birds for 2 shots and then missed a bird right in front that the dog flushed off his nose … the dog looked at me with disgust 🤣 

 

I think I may not bother with a new Silver Pigeon. 
 

It’s not so much the weight in the hand, it’s carrying them for 1-2 hours through boggy ground or clay soil that makes your feet like lead, then being whippy enough to flip up and drop a bird that flushes and may be your only chance all day. 
 

I hit one such cracker today with the SxS, hence the current idea I don’t need a new gun 🤣

how did you like the impax.....ive always found them to be a bit punchy ?

[Lloyd90]

5 minutes ago, ditchman said:

how did you like the impax.....ive always found them to be a bit punchy ?

I genuinely didn’t notice that.

Although I only fired 3 carts and only 1 at a time with a gap in-between. 
 

I weighed my current guns the other day, the AYA is 6lb 12oz. 
 

I am on a walked up shoot tomorrow and another Wednesday so will use the SxS and the Impax and let you know after a bit more use. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

hence the current idea I don’t need a new gun

You can get a new one any time ........... but once you have one, you will take a ££ hit to get rid of it, even with a 'big' name like Beretta.

[ditchman]

9 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I genuinely didn’t notice that.

Although I only fired 3 carts and only 1 at a time with a gap in-between. 
 

I weighed my current guns the other day, the AYA is 6lb 12oz. 
 

I am on a walked up shoot tomorrow and another Wednesday so will use the SxS and the Impax and let you know after a bit more use. 

 

i know the big barley barons of east anglia (back in the day)...liked their Impax for the partridge days....in those days they looked on pheasants as vermin...

[Old farrier]

12 hours ago, ditchman said:

how did you like the impax.....ive always found them to be a bit punchy ?

The paper case one is a totally different cartridge from the plastic case impax 

 

[ditchman]

3 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

The paper case one is a totally different cartridge from the plastic case impax 

 

intersting ....explain more please

[enfieldspares]

3 minutes ago, ditchman said:

intersting ....explain more please

The paper "grips" the chamber walls more than does the plastic so the back thrust is less (the reason that proof cartridges are oiled is to increase back thrust). Therefore they seem a "softer" cartridge to shoot. 

[ditchman]

44 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

The paper "grips" the chamber walls more than does the plastic so the back thrust is less (the reason that proof cartridges are oiled is to increase back thrust). Therefore they seem a "softer" cartridge to shoot. 

every day is a skool day ...cheers for that

[wymberley]

56 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

The paper "grips" the chamber walls more than does the plastic so the back thrust is less (the reason that proof cartridges are oiled is to increase back thrust). Therefore they seem a "softer" cartridge to shoot. 

Are we also talking shotgun cartridges for the increase in bolt thrust during proof?

[Walker570]

Balance and fit are far more important. I agree with keeping it light and using sensible loads. I breasted a hen pheasant this week and it had eleven shot hits and three where al,most in the same place and look like 4s. Went as fox bait.   As you most likely all know, I now shoot exclusively a 410 and 18.7 grains of #6 Bismuth and if I do my job it will do birds out to 40-45yrds no problem and is a joy to carry.

in edit....just learned that the supposed #6s are in fact #5 size....still do the job.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Walker570

[Westley]

15 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I genuinely didn’t notice that.

Although I only fired 3 carts and only 1 at a time with a gap in-between. 
 

I weighed my current guns the other day, the AYA is 6lb 12oz. 
 

I am on a walked up shoot tomorrow and another Wednesday so will use the SxS and the Impax and let you know after a bit more use. 

 

Try the Fiocchi 28 gram 6's fibre wad game cartridge. I have used them a lot in my S x S and they are excellent but a tad dirty. Worth a try and they will be cheaper than Impax.

 

[London Best]

3 minutes ago, Westley said:

cheaper than Impax.

 

When I started buying 12 bore cartridges (1961) I bought Impax because they were 10 shillings and threepence per 25 (51p). Grand Prix were 10 shillings and sixpence per 25 (52.5p).

[Westley]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

When I started buying 12 bore cartridges (1961) I bought Impax because they were 10 shillings and threepence per 25 (51p). Grand Prix were 10 shillings and sixpence per 25 (52.5p).

Don't you need a lit taper to fire them back then though  ?    🤣

[London Best]

1 minute ago, Westley said:

Don't you need a lit taper to fire them back then though  ?    🤣

Should’ve gone to Specsavers. I wrote 1961, not 1661!

[silver fox 1]

20 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I went out the other day with my AYA side by side and some newly acquired Eley Impax 28g 7’s … took two nice birds for 2 shots and then missed a bird right in front that the dog flushed off his nose … the dog looked at me with disgust 🤣 

 

I think I may not bother with a new Silver Pigeon. 
 

It’s not so much the weight in the hand, it’s carrying them for 1-2 hours through boggy ground or clay soil that makes your feet like lead, then being whippy enough to flip up and drop a bird that flushes and may be your only chance all day. 
 

I hit one such cracker today with the SxS, hence the current idea I don’t need a new gun 🤣

Hi Sounds like you’re making the right decision, I’m a member of a walk, one stand one syndicate so my gun either goes in the slip on my back, or in the Gator so not too much of a problem, having said that I have got an itch for a side-by-side something a bit lighter, and more traditional than my over and under

[Lloyd90]

On 30/01/2023 at 19:47, silver fox 1 said:

Hi Sounds like you’re making the right decision, I’m a member of a walk, one stand one syndicate so my gun either goes in the slip on my back, or in the Gator so not too much of a problem, having said that I have got an itch for a side-by-side something a bit lighter, and more traditional than my over and under

Shot our final mop up day at my syndicate today we did walked up / semi driven for a change. 
 

I took 6 birds for 6 shots, flushed by my own dog. 
 

The Eley Inpax 28g 7’s were bang on… seemed to do the job really well