freddie d Posted January 28, 2023 Report Share Posted January 28, 2023 Hi folks, I was curious to know what bore diameter the more modern Miroku models were, are they all the same as the browning at 18.7. I read something that the Miroku MK60 had a tighter 18.4 bore which was supposedly better for gas sealing with fibre wads. Is this true? or are all models of miroku barrels 18.7? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveo26 Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 Same as Browning I believe. 18.7mm for invector + choked guns. The older invector choked guns were not back bored. I read on some other forum that someone bought a brand new Mk60 and thought the barrels were choked tighter than they should have been, he measured the bore as 18.7 on his MK60so I suppose it depends on the age of the gun, older mk60s could have 18.4 bores, maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) Dont bother yourself with all the " supposedly this and supposedly that " written in magazines,and sales publicity ,its all gimmick sales pitch and suppersition. Was in the trade all my working life and I've heard it all ,I've bored barrels to ridiculous sizes for people who believe an extra thou or two will make all the difference , same as choke boring requests , that a .007 " will be so so much better than a .008" or .006" . The one thing I have decided beyond any doubt in my own mind is that there is a lot of psychology involved in shooting . If you believe something is so it must be so . People have come to me with problems about gun fit , chokes etc where the biggest problem is that they THINK they have a problem .My advice was to stop thinking about it and just shoot . I know this does not answer your original question and to be truthful I dont know and really dont care and I suggest you do the same , once its in the mind it will always be there and every poor shot or miss will feed the little voice in your ear ,whispering " if only you had ........."🤫 Edited January 29, 2023 by Gunman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, Gunman said: Dont bother yourself with all the " supposedly this and supposedly that " written in magazines,and sales publicity ,its all gimmick sales pitch and suppersition. Was in the trade all my working life and I've heard it all ,I've bored barrels to ridiculous sizes for people who believe an extra thou or two will make all the difference , same as choke boring requests , that a .007 " will be so so much better than a .008" or .006" . The one thing I have decided beyond any doubt in my own mind is that there is a lot of psychology involved in shooting . If you believe something is so it must be so . People have come to me with problems about gun fit , chokes etc where the biggest problem is that they THINK they have a problem .My advice was to stop thinking about it and just shoot . I know this does not answer your original question and to be truthful I dont know and really dont care and I suggest you do the same , once its in the mind it will always be there and every poor shot or miss will feed the little voice in your ear ,whispering " if only you had ........."🤫 Excellent! One of the most sensible posts I have seen on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 I agree with Gunman and London Best on this. To answer your question, my MK38 2013 model is 18.7 but for the definitive answer read Gunmans post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reindeer Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Gunman said: Dont bother yourself with all the " supposedly this and supposedly that " written in magazines,and sales publicity ,its all gimmick sales pitch and suppersition. Was in the trade all my working life and I've heard it all ,I've bored barrels to ridiculous sizes for people who believe an extra thou or two will make all the difference , same as choke boring requests , that a .007 " will be so so much better than a .008" or .006" . The one thing I have decided beyond any doubt in my own mind is that there is a lot of psychology involved in shooting . If you believe something is so it must be so . People have come to me with problems about gun fit , chokes etc where the biggest problem is that they THINK they have a problem .My advice was to stop thinking about it and just shoot . I know this does not answer your original question and to be truthful I dont know and really dont care and I suggest you do the same , once its in the mind it will always be there and every poor shot or miss will feed the little voice in your ear ,whispering " if only you had ........."🤫 I have always suspected that the ‘back bored’ hype was created by Browning/Miroku fot only two reasons: 1: to convince hunters with older models that they are now outgunned and that the only sensible thing to cure that situation is to buy a new back bored model. Of course the obsolete model will be taken in as part of the payment, but only for a very disappointing price because they are not in demand anymore. Just now, reindeer said: I have always suspected that the ‘back bored’ hype was created by Browning/Miroku fot only two reasons: 1: to convince hunters with older models that they are now outgunned and that the only sensible thing to cure that situation is to buy a new back bored model. Of course the obsolete model will be taken in as part of the payment, but only for a very disappointing price because they are not in demand anymore. 2: By backboring, the outer diametre of the tubes can be slightly wider aswell without changing wall thickness and this reduces the visible flare that is needed to house the screw in chokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Gunman said: Dont bother yourself with all the " supposedly this and supposedly that " written in magazines,and sales publicity ,its all gimmick sales pitch and suppersition. Was in the trade all my working life and I've heard it all ,I've bored barrels to ridiculous sizes for people who believe an extra thou or two will make all the difference , same as choke boring requests , that a .007 " will be so so much better than a .008" or .006" . The one thing I have decided beyond any doubt in my own mind is that there is a lot of psychology involved in shooting . If you believe something is so it must be so . People have come to me with problems about gun fit , chokes etc where the biggest problem is that they THINK they have a problem .My advice was to stop thinking about it and just shoot . I know this does not answer your original question and to be truthful I dont know and really dont care and I suggest you do the same , once its in the mind it will always be there and every poor shot or miss will feed the little voice in your ear ,whispering " if only you had ........."🤫 This, this, this and this! I’m convinced that 3/8th and 1/2 ( with my particular favourite cartridge ) is the perfect combination for game, for me. I have two guns set up with this combination, and although I know it’s psychological it gives me tremendous confidence and I shoot very very well with either gun in this combination. I’m old enough now to realise that if I have an off day however, and it does happen, then it’s not the chokes, it isnt the gun, and it isn’t the cartridges, it’s me! As a result I change nothing. I know folks who have an off day with a combination they’ve shot well with previously, but as a result they allow doubt to creep in, then next thing you know they’re swapping chokes, but they’ve already lost confidence, so it doesn’t work, so next thing they’ve changed cartridges, but it’s too late….a mates having great success with his Browning 20 bore, and so it’s off to the gun dealers! 🙂 I know it’s psychological because I shoot very well with a 3/8th choke in my auto when decoying, but with a totally different cartridge, and with that same cartridge but through my trap gun. 🤷♂️ It’s a strange old game this shooting lark, but if you KNOW you can shoot, then you’ve got it cracked; if you have any doubts then it can be an expensive frustrating nightmare! 🙂 The best thing you can do if the wheels come off when previously they were free wheeling, in my opinion, is correct and repetitive practise of your mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, reindeer said: I have always suspected that the ‘back bored’ hype was created by Browning/Miroku fot only two reasons: 1: to convince hunters with older models that they are now outgunned and that the only sensible thing to cure that situation is to buy a new back bored model. Of course the obsolete model will be taken in as part of the payment, but only for a very disappointing price because they are not in demand anymore. I agree - gun makers figured our years ago that shotguns (if looked after) last forever. You often need a gimmick to sell more guns when the existing ones are just fine (which isn't to say that there have been no technological developments, but still....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 14 hours ago, freddie d said: Hi folks, I was curious to know what bore diameter the more modern Miroku models were, are they all the same as the browning at 18.7. I read something that the Miroku MK60 had a tighter 18.4 bore which was supposedly better for gas sealing with fibre wads. Is this true? or are all models of miroku barrels 18.7? Cheers Can't answer your question specifically about Miroku, but you're right to ask. I'm not for one minute saying that backboring WILL cause gas leakage passed a fibre wad, but it CAN. Pattern testing my Maxus reflected blown patterns, filthy barrels and worst of all, balled shot. However, it must be emphasised that this only occured with just one cartridge make of those tried. No need to panic, but just be aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 Gunman has it spot on. Marketing claims re back boring are….well….just that really….marketing. Re the Miroku guns. I really like them and have shot with them a fair bit over the years. The MK60 and 70 (I can’t comment on the 38) both became back bored from a certain date onwards, perhaps 2012….? The only advantage I could discern with the later type, was that with an extra 10 to 12 thou taken out of the bore, the barrels were lighter and handling was a tad livelier - and all the more pleasant for it. Not part of the marketing message, but a reasonable plus. As far as ballistics…….. well…. if I was on them I hit, if I wasn’t I missed. Simple as that. With the longer forcing cones, they were slightly more cartridge fussy, but I found the soft Eley fibre wads gave a good seal and nice patterns. That’s my two penneth for what it’s worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger687 Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 OP asked whether back boring reduced sealing effectiveness of fibre wads. Yes, it does, this was demonstrated by Nigel Teague many years ago. Longer forcing cones are also detrimental to fibre wads too. Nitro cards and fibre wads are limited in their ability to expand and fill the bore; the longer the forcing cone the longer it takes for the card to get a tight fit. My old yildiz with 18.6mm bores and long forcing cones performed horribly with fibre wadded ammunition; always sounded like a cough rather than a crack when it was fired, and it would inevitably experience heavy lead fouling which took forever to remove. By contrast, my supernova with an 18.4 mm bore and short forcing cone has neither of these problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 On 29/01/2023 at 09:04, London Best said: Excellent! One of the most sensible posts I have seen on this forum. Thank you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 15 hours ago, Smudger687 said: OP asked whether back boring reduced sealing effectiveness of fibre wads. Yes, it does, this was demonstrated by Nigel Teague many years ago. Longer forcing cones are also detrimental to fibre wads too. Nitro cards and fibre wads are limited in their ability to expand and fill the bore; the longer the forcing cone the longer it takes for the card to get a tight fit. My old yildiz with 18.6mm bores and long forcing cones performed horribly with fibre wadded ammunition; always sounded like a cough rather than a crack when it was fired, and it would inevitably experience heavy lead fouling which took forever to remove. By contrast, my supernova with an 18.4 mm bore and short forcing cone has neither of these problems. My old (1930) English gun has bores measuring 18,65 and patterns and performs faultlessly with fibre wads. The only fouling that happens is plastic if I am unfortunate enough to have to fire a plaswad through it. It does, of course, have short forcing cones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigroomboy Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 I've got a 2003 MK60 it's bored 18.4. I would guess it's changed later 2000s because newer MK60s I've handled have slightly lighter barrels like many browning or miroku guns and may handle a bit better. Although I have no issues shooting my gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les53 Posted February 4, 2023 Report Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) I never really care what boring is in a gun, so long as it does what it should. 😂 Edited February 4, 2023 by Les53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOPGUN749 Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 I can’t say exactly what the bore size is as I don’t have a bore gauge,and the sizes stamped with the proof marks are never spot on,could be 5 thou out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les53 Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 Checked mine, 18.8. So definitely over bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 29/01/2023 at 08:39, Gunman said: The one thing I have decided beyond any doubt in my own mind is that there is a lot of psychology involved in shooting . If you believe something is so it must be so . This. Very much so. Sometimes based on actual benefit in performance, Sometimes just a confidence booster based on a belief, a theory, and half heard long repeated practice of this "great shot" or that "great shot". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 Gunman - as usual - excellent post. Straight to the point and robustly put. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.