Do you trust BASC

[flycoy]

It's refreshing to see some support for BASC on here I had given up commenting and contributing , although i have written some accounts of good days pigeon shooting and never put them on.

The stand at the BSS was very busy with staff and volunteers given weekend time to help existing and new members with all sorts of questions, i am very proud to be part of it.

which ever organisation you choose, there is no doubt we all need help keeping our shooting alive. 

Times they are a changing

 

 

 

 

 

[holloway]

10 hours ago, Fellside said:

I can appreciate the points you and others make, but really, Conor and current (I say CURRENT!) BASC employees are humans not machines. They have a lot of tough commitments, and will undoubtedly become distracted by raging irrational attacks via PW and other media. Some of the behaviour of PW members towards BASC has been akin to the token drunken looney on a train carriage who you avoid sitting beside. That’s not directed at any single individual - but a general observation of a few. I’ve no doubt there have been past BASC mistakes. Hell, I’ve made a few of those I’m my career too, who hasn’t? However, the past is just that, passed, gone, over, a dead parrot! I too wouldn’t have supported the life membership of Swift, but it’s happened. It’s not major news - let’s move on!

While helpful constructive suggestions may be useful, I’m not sure the sustained level of hateful attacks contribute to our future in any way. May I respectfully suggest that we avoid any kind of shooting community implosion - which our detractors would delight in.

For the record I too would definitely prefer to use lead ammunition, and have requested special ‘derogations’ in this respect. However it is completely understandable that BASC and other shooting org’s have seen the writing on the wall, and are trying to ‘ride the green wave’ so to speak, rather than allowing us all to become drowned by it…! Stretching the maritime analogy yet further, does the name King Canute mean anything to you?

At last a common sense post .

[holloway]

43 minutes ago, albifrons said:

I trust BASC 100%!

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of BASC knockers that surface every time one of them finds some problem and looks for a whipping boy.

As a Secretary of a wildfowling Club, who truly knows the value of BASC, when we have had problems with leases and any other concern, they have always been on the end of a phone or email etc. I guarantee you will not find that expertise any where else.   (I’ll await the responses to say “I cannot contact them”)

To harp back to Swifty and the lead shot issue, it’s gone, forget it. 
 

Increased pressure on Fieldsports is increasing and will continue to increase, and the only org than could possibly combat this pressure is BASC. If you seriously think that any other org will have the clout, the knowledge or the expertise to take that on, then give your head a wobble, as the biggest excuse I see for leaving BASC from the knockers is, “there is cheaper Insurance out there”.

Tin hat is firmly on!

 

Sadly the ignorance of the work Basc do is astounding well done for highlighting it .

[flycoy]

3 minutes ago, holloway said:

Sadly the ignorance of the work Basc do is astounding well done for highlighting it .

well said !!

next time your at the game fair have a look at the shotgun coaching line, all the coaches on there doing scores of lessons a day, all work for free. 3 days hard graft to get new people into shooting!  that's just one department 

[holloway]

12 minutes ago, flycoy said:

well said !!

next time your at the game fair have a look at the shotgun coaching line, all the coaches on there doing scores of lessons a day, all work for free. 3 days hard graft to get new people into shooting!  that's just one department 

You will never persuade the Basc haters, they remind me very much of the animal rights ,modern woke society, fuel protesting types they have there own view and are blinkered to any good stuff Basc do ,accepted Basc have in my opinion made mistakes but there is no organisation that does more ,most of the haters do absolutely zero just criticise …….sad really.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 hours ago, flycoy said:

well said !!

next time your at the game fair have a look at the shotgun coaching line, all the coaches on there doing scores of lessons a day, all work for free. 3 days hard graft to get new people into shooting!  that's just one department 

And the CPSA line is just as long, if not longer!

 

No other single body, supposedly representing its Members and supposedly defending Shooting Sports has failed to actually ask their Members what they wanted.

 

Since the John Swift debacle, BASC have constantly failed to do what they purport to do.

 

That is why a lot of us have left BASC, we do not trust them!

[Scully]

I can’t say I distrust BASC; I I’m just heartily disappointed in their ability to deliver any sort of defence against creeping encroachment into my way of life, and that’s why I will no longer support them financially. I simply grew increasingly frustrated at a lack of ‘punch’ I suppose, but then I am quite pro-active, confrontational and militant. 
I just hope all those who spring to their defence are just as quick to respond when their input is needed, because as was just recently proved with the HSE consultation,  less than 1% of members could be bothered, which begs the question why people are actually members! 🤔If you’re not going to get involved then why join? 
There is a list of what we have lost through creeping ineffective legislation and an anti agenda due to ineffective representation, so giving up one’s free time to conduct a bit of coaching doesn’t really impress me I’m afraid; I do that and I don’t charge a penny. 🤷‍♂️

 

[merseamal]

On 01/03/2023 at 10:01, BlaserF3 said:

https://markavery.info/2016/07/26/guest-blog-john-swift-chair-lead-ammunition-group/

Does anyone trust BASC today after this?

I went back to this from 2016, why do shooters keep giving this organisation money?

I don’t get your point?

[merseamal]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And the CPSA line is just as long, if not longer!

 

No other single body, supposedly representing its Members and supposedly defending Shooting Sports has failed to actually ask their Members what they wanted.

 

Since the John Swift debacle, BASC have constantly failed to do what they purport to do.

 

That is why a lot of us have left BASC, we do not trust them!

What didn’t you get asked about?

would you;

A) have an instant total ban on all lead

or

B) a voluntary phased approach based on data and allows time for manufacturers to make enough suitable alternatives

 

 

[Newbie to this]

Just now, merseamal said:

What didn’t you get asked about?

would you;

A) have an instant total ban on all lead

or

B) a voluntary phased approach based on data and allows time for manufacturers to make enough suitable alternatives

 

 

 the only two options available 

[merseamal]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

 the only two options available 

Other options being?

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

 the only two options available 

Perhaps 

C) beat your chest, fight any ban and have it imposed on us before we’re ready?

I’ve been wildfowling for 30 years, about 20 of which has been without lead and never had any issues.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 hours ago, merseamal said:

What didn’t you get asked about?

would you;

A) have an instant total ban on all lead

or

B) a voluntary phased approach based on data and allows time for manufacturers to make enough suitable alternatives

I would have asked the Membership about a quicker phase out of plastic wads and a much slower transition from lead to non toxic.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, merseamal said:

Other options being?

We'll never know now will we.

1 hour ago, merseamal said:

fight any ban and have it imposed on us before we’re ready?

Because not fighting it, has stopped it being imposed on us before we are ready, right.

Or perhaps BASC (etc.) calling for a ban for live quarry, has instigated the mess we are now in. We'll never know, unless you are suggesting that BASC have indeed got the insider knowledge, which they deny.

1 hour ago, merseamal said:

I’ve been wildfowling for 30 years, about 20 of which has been without lead and never had any issues.

Good for you,

but it can not be argued that steel shot is like for like as effective as lead, or they wouldn't be seeking degradation for Olympic competitors so they can still compete at world standard.

[udderlyoffroad]

23 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Or perhaps BASC (etc.) calling for a ban for live quarry, has instigated the mess we are now in.

It hasn't.  EU REACH was heading in that direction regardless of what BASC did or didn't do.

And, once again, BASC never called for a ban! It was a voluntary phase out with an -ahem- aggressive, unconsulted-on, timetable.

To reiterate: EU REACH is seriously considering (more aggressively) banning PFAS containing chemicals, whose danger to humans or the environment is still far more unknown.  Non-stick coatings on frying pans?  PTFE tape?  Refrigerants?  The list goes on, and will have noticeable impacts on everyday life to a far greater percentage of the population.  Lead, with its blatant toxicity to humans*, is pretty done for.  This is the reality that all the org-bashers on here must accept, if not like.

*Yes I know; delivery mechanism matters, don't eat lead pellets, water pipes, ad nauseum.  History suggests that distinction will be lost on EU (and UK) REACH.

Edited March 3, 2023 by udderlyoffroad

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, merseamal said:

C) beat your chest, fight any ban and have it imposed on us before we’re ready?

Id much prefer that yes, a shooting body that speaks for shooters (we'll come back to that later) PROPOSING the ban, NOT speaking to ammunition manufacturers BEFORE they were ready, made NO attempt to discuss the  matter with those using the cartridges , OR indeed its own paying membership ?
What is it , a democratically elected body, or a junta ?

2 hours ago, merseamal said:

I’ve been wildfowling for 30 years, about 20 of which has been without lead and never had any issues.

Im glad to hear youre alright Jack.

 

Ive kept out of this so far , as there was some interesting comments at first, until the Swift comments attracted some truly astounding counter comments, words like 'hateful' and 'libellous' , and he 'deserved' his honourary life membership, the man who headed up an organisation to ban lead ammunition 8 years ago , gets honoured by the organisation who WITHOUT CONSULTATION (because BASC doesnt work like that ) have effected, without much of a fight , a lead ban.

What people like Conor should be doing is wondering why threads like this exist, why do 'BASC bashers exist' are there GWCT bashers or CA bashers ?

Do I trust BASC ? With what , legal insurance, doctors letters, fighting to keep at least some aspects of lead ammunition, how can I ?
They have had no effect on anything meaningful in all the time I have been involved in the sport , UNLESS IT SUITS THEM, that being game shooting , or rather , where the money is.
Where is the fighting fund , where are the legal challenges, where is the 'voice' of shooting ?

4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It hasn't.  EU REACH was heading in that direction regardless of what BASC did or didn't do.

We arent in the EU anymore , just saying.

[udderlyoffroad]

To be fair I said "potentially" libelous... 🤣

I'm beginning to think BASC have a similar problem to MPs.  Speak to an individual about their local MP, often times the response you get is, "nice chap, very helpful to me on such and such, despite the fact I wouldn't have voted for them", but ask them about MPs in general "Useless corrupt troughers the lot of 'em"

24 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

We arent in the EU anymore , just saying.

The way certain elements of the public sector act, you wouldn't know. 

And indeed, from what we've seen so far of UK REACH, they're happy to be entirely in lockstep with their EU namesakes, if not going above and beyond.

[Gordon R]

I am unclear why BlaserF3 has been criticised for starting the thread. Is there a hidden list of what threads can or cannot be started, of which we are unaware?

I know BlaserF3 personally - straight as a die and genuine.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Gordon R

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

The way certain elements of the public sector act, you wouldn't know. 

And indeed, from what we've seen so far of UK REACH, they're happy to be entirely in lockstep with their EU namesakes, if not going above and beyond.

Agreed , it seems their mindset is firmly set in pre Brexit mode, and they simply cant accept that we dont HAVE to follow Brussels lead on everything.
I always thought , rather naively it would seem , that Brexit was the exact reason for things like this, making up our own mind on what is best for the UK ?
But I cant blame BASC for that.
What I can criticise them for , is a failure to fight our corner, if they want to be the 'voice' then speak.
If all they are there to do is protest at further curtailments in shooting and gun ownership, and not actually use those millions in the bank to DO something , then all they are is a company that provides insurance, publishes a magazine full of adverts and employs 150 people to do so.
 

[BlaserF3]

Is it correct that BASC have a recording studio?

Why are they not using it and putting things on you tube like TGS do.

TGS do more for shooting than any organisation in the U.K.

I'm finding "our" organisations woefully weak to spend money to fight legislation when they need to.

[Gas seal]

I’m alright Jack, that was said a lot to wild Fowler’s when lead was banned for wildfowl. A voluntary none use of lead ammunition will never work, look at the game and wildlife conservation trust (lead ammunition today) . See how many ducks were shot with lead ammunition over 20 years. No one ever prosecuted for shooting them or selling them. Look at the voluntary season for woodcock. I can’t see commercial shoots loosing 8 weeks shooting at maybe a thousand pounds a day. I know a lot of shooters and small shoots don’t shoot them until late November or just don’t shoot them. Shooters on this website have changed to steel cartridges, is it for the environment or a better price for the pigeons that they shoot. Maybe they could comment. Yes The phase out of plastic wads will be next, single use plastic. A lot is said about lead in other things, l don’t see that will help to keep lead in ammunition. The classic one was about the school kids chewing on their lead pencils, so it must be ok. BlaserF3 asked the question and got replies, again I trust the BASC, I’ve no reason not to. 

[Pushandpull]

BlaserF3 - try googling basc youtube before posting ?

[BlaserF3]

10 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

BlaserF3 - try googling basc youtube before posting ?

Videos like this one, rather than a how to do it format of BASC videos.

 

 

[Newbie to this]

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It hasn't.  EU REACH was heading in that direction regardless of what BASC did or didn't do.

Possibly, but we will never know as BASC got in first.

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

And, once again, BASC never called for a ban! It was a voluntary phase out with an -ahem- aggressive, unconsulted-on, timetable.

BASC can call it what they want.

[BlaserF3]

For those who have not seen this.

 

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Nice to see some positive and constructive comments in the thread - hopefully that will encourage more PW members to speak out against the misinformation broadcasted by a vocal minority.

Now that we are back on lead again I think the following facts need repeating:

• Nine organisations are encouraging a voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting.
• BASC supports the voluntary transition and is fighting the Health and Safety Executive lead ban proposals.