Latest plan to stop the boats.

[welsh1]

3 minutes ago, ditchman said:

Rimfire has just posted the answer..........Being British is nothing to do with colour creed or birth...........its a personal state of mind

So what state of mind should i have? do i have to think like you? or can i have totally opposing views to yours and still be British?

[Dave-G]

Just now, welsh1 said:

So what state of mind should i have? do i have to think like you? or can i have totally opposing views to yours and still be British?

You can be an exception.

[welsh1]

2 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

You can be an exception.

My point is that British is not one thing, there are many different things thrown into the pot.

Just because someone may not look like or think like you does not diminish their "Britishness" does it?
 

[ditchman]

1 minute ago, welsh1 said:

My point is that British is not one thing, there are many different things thrown into the pot.

Just because someone may not look like or think like you does not diminish their "Britishness" does it?
 

which is excactly what i just bloody posted in a rounderbout way.....you are definatly British with a bit of Welsh

[Rewulf]

48 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Is there a definition of British that i should be adhering to?

You did say you were Welsh ?

What you identify as is entirely up to you, you are Welsh , you live in Wales, which is part of the UK (Britain)
You could say you were British if you like, as could a person born in Pakistan who has lived here for xx amount of years, if they choose, some I know who were born here refer to themselves as Pakistani , I dont see it as a problem either way.

As an aside , some of the most vehement critics of the 'boat people' are themselves those who emigrated here, they consider them to be a threat to the relative harmony we have created in this diverse country.
Just saying .

[12gauge82]

15 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

My point is that British is not one thing, there are many different things thrown into the pot.

Just because someone may not look like or think like you does not diminish their "Britishness" does it?
 

Being British is far from one thing, but it undoubtedly has its own unique culture and while sharing many similarities, is also very different from many other countries. 

We certainly all have our own individual thoughts and opinions but a British person will all hold certain values at their core. Just look at our legal system for example, people's very freedom is often controlled by those values and beliefs. Something legal in this country is often not in another or visa versa. 

[ditchman]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You did say you were Welsh ?

What you identify as is entirely up to you, you are Welsh , you live in Wales, which is part of the UK (Britain)
You could say you were British if you like, as could a person born in Pakistan who has lived here for xx amount of years, if they choose, some I know who were born here refer to themselves as Pakistani , I dont see it as a problem either way.

As an aside , some of the most vehement critics of the 'boat people' are themselves those who emigrated here, they consider them to be a threat to the relative harmony we have created in this diverse country.
Just saying .

well said ...erudite

[Scully]

I see Gary Lineker has likened the suggested policy as akin to that of Germany in the 1930’s. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Scully

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

I see Gary Lineker has likened the suggested policy as akin to that of Germany in the 1930’s. 

He would do , I reckon he would do or say anything to get himself on the news feeds.
Hes a publicity junkie.

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

I see Gary Lineker has likened the suggested policy as akin to that of Germany in the 1930’s. 

Since he is paid £1.35M of license payers money and has to follow BBC guidelines which prohibit taking a political stance....

The BBC's guidance says of its high-profile stars: 'We expect these individuals to avoid taking sides on party political issues.'

I have raised a complaint to the BBC.

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Since he is paid £1.35M of license payers money and has to follow BBC guidelines which prohibit taking a political stance....

The BBC's guidance says of its high-profile stars: 'We expect these individuals to avoid taking sides on party political issues.'

I have raised a complaint to the BBC.

Good for you.
The BBC have stated they will be having a’frank’ discussion with him. 

[oowee]

5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I dont agree with this, I believe if done correctly it will very much strengthen uk citizen rights and protect them in many ways including financially and security wise being the two obvious benefits. 

As always though, the proof is in the pudding! 

If we left the ECHR, what would this mean for ordinary people in the UK?

Leaving the ECHR would put everyone’s rights at risk. The ECtHR is a person’s last resort for holding the state to account when it has abused their rights.

The Government is already planning to weaken human rights in the UK through its Rights Removal Bill, which will make it much harder for people to get justice if their rights have been abused.

Without the protection of the Human Rights Act or the ECHR, the UK Government would have the power to do whatever it wants to individuals’ rights with no threat of consequences.

Leaving the ECHR would also breach the Good Friday Agreement, which requires that the Convention be directly enforceable in Northern Ireland. This would threaten the peace settlement.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

The BBC have stated they will be having a’frank’ discussion with him. 

One of the Radio 4 presenters this morning pointed out that if they (as presenters on a current affairs programme had done the same, it would have been dismissal time.  They are entitled to private views, but must not 'air' them. 

He says he will 'continue to speak out'.  That seems to be in direct contravention with the guidelines for BBC 'high profile' staff.  If he isn't 'high profile', why is he the highest paid BBC presenter?

[Vince Green]

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

If we left the ECHR, what would this mean for ordinary people in the UK?

Leaving the ECHR would put everyone’s rights at risk. The ECtHR is a person’s last resort for holding the state to account when it has abused their rights.

The Government is already planning to weaken human rights in the UK through its Rights Removal Bill, which will make it much harder for people to get justice if their rights have been abused.

Without the protection of the Human Rights Act or the ECHR, the UK Government would have the power to do whatever it wants to individuals’ rights with no threat of consequences.

Leaving the ECHR would also breach the Good Friday Agreement, which requires that the Convention be directly enforceable in Northern Ireland. This would threaten the peace settlement.

Yes but, no but.....

The ECHR is also guilty of being less than impartial. Often making judgements that appear to be politically biased.

It's unaccountable and unpredictable 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Vince Green

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

If we left the ECHR, what would this mean for ordinary people in the UK?

Leaving the ECHR would put everyone’s rights at risk. The ECtHR is a person’s last resort for holding the state to account when it has abused their rights.

The Government is already planning to weaken human rights in the UK through its Rights Removal Bill, which will make it much harder for people to get justice if their rights have been abused.

Without the protection of the Human Rights Act or the ECHR, the UK Government would have the power to do whatever it wants to individuals’ rights with no threat of consequences.

Leaving the ECHR would also breach the Good Friday Agreement, which requires that the Convention be directly enforceable in Northern Ireland. This would threaten the peace settlement.

All you've stated would hinge on what legislation the government passed in its place, for all you or I know, they could make any new human rights laws with even more protection than before. 

Why do you automatically assume the UK government cares less about Human rights than the rest of Europe? 

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

All you've stated would hinge on what legislation the government passed in its place, for all you or I know, they could make any new human rights laws with even more protection than before. 

Why do you automatically assume the UK government cares less about Human rights than the rest of Europe? 

Its part of a process of changing society norms. Chip chip chip away at our values, rights and standards and building autonomy for an autocratic state. 

Cutting spending on education reduces opportunity for social mobility. Cutting the NHS so that it becomes almost untenable. Restricting workers rights to strike. Leaving the EU. Strengthening police powers to crack down on protesters. Deporting people to Rwanda. Starting to unpick the very fabric of international norms (ECHR) are all of the actions required to further the division between those that have and everyone else.  The sort of actions needed to recreate class divide. 

[12gauge82]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

Its part of a process of changing society norms. Chip chip chip away at our values, rights and standards and building autonomy for an autocratic state. 

Cutting spending on education reduces opportunity for social mobility. Cutting the NHS so that it becomes almost untenable. Restricting workers rights to strike. Leaving the EU. Strengthening police powers to crack down on protesters. Deporting people to Rwanda. Starting to unpick the very fabric of international norms (ECHR) are all of the actions required to further the division between those that have and everyone else.  The sort of actions needed to recreate class divide. 

I'm not sure I buy into all that to be honest, but time will tell I suppose. 

With talk like that, Henry will be along with his tin foil emoji soon 😂😂😂

[oowee]

34 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm not sure I buy into all that to be honest, but time will tell I suppose. 

With talk like that, Henry will be along with his tin foil emoji soon 😂😂😂

🤣 I will keep out of that one. 🤣 I do feel like we have had some of the best of everything and the future is not so rosy. Then I keep telling myself that all older people feel like that 🤣

[12gauge82]

43 minutes ago, oowee said:

🤣 I will keep out of that one. 🤣 I do feel like we have had some of the best of everything and the future is not so rosy. Then I keep telling myself that all older people feel like that 🤣

All very true I feel the same, aches and pains included 👍

[old man]

14 hours ago, Scully said:

Good for you.
The BBC have stated they will be having a’frank’ discussion with him. 

Ha ha, that's a good one?

[discobob]

14 hours ago, oowee said:

Its part of a process of changing society norms. Chip chip chip away at our values, rights and standards and building autonomy for an autocratic state. 

Cutting spending on education reduces opportunity for social mobility. Cutting the NHS so that it becomes almost untenable. Restricting workers rights to strike. Leaving the EU. Strengthening police powers to crack down on protesters. Deporting people to Rwanda. Starting to unpick the very fabric of international norms (ECHR) are all of the actions required to further the division between those that have and everyone else.  The sort of actions needed to recreate class divide. 

Well put Grant  do you want my design of a fur lined tin foil cap - it is ideal for the weather we are having.

We are going through the greatest change in living history with a great deal of social engineering happening that is "all in plain sight" but is being obscured by other things that are out there for distraction purposes.

Things like Digital ID, CBDC, 15 minute Cities, LTN's and ultimately I think it will end up with Universal Basic Income for all, with no property ownership.

[Rewulf]

15 hours ago, oowee said:

Its part of a process of changing society norms. Chip chip chip away at our values, rights and standards and building autonomy for an autocratic state. 

Youre talking about the EU right ?

[Vince Green]

There is still one problem with the new proposal. Most of the migrants don't land here on our shores illegally. They are rescued at sea and brought ashore by the rescuers. Life boat, coastguard etc

Which gives them a different status in the eyes of the law. They are technically shipwrecked mariners and are protected by some very old maritime comventions

[enfieldspares]

On 07/03/2023 at 16:50, 12gauge82 said:

My thoughts are we first need somewhere to send them back and knowing our current crop of spineless politicians it's unlikely they'll return them to France, so hopefully Rwanda will take them? 

We could have returned them to France under the Dublin Accord that was in force between EU Member States. We didn't. And wow we have left the EU we can't.

But I agree the solution to this has to be, can only be, an agreement with France to return them to France and with regard to Albania to return them directly to Albania. Rwanda is really only useful IMHO as a "stick" to threaten that as the choice of be removed to there or to Albania.

As for leaving the ECHR be careful what you wish for. An old legal saying is that "hard cases make bad law". That is to say the ECHR may be perceived to be about "helping left lawyers settle illegal immigrants in the UK" but it is far more than that. 

The present Government doesn't like it so seeks to use the issue of illegal immigrants to try to denigrate the ECHR and with it the protections that it gives us..yes us...born and bred here in the UK.

[12gauge82]

25 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

We could have returned them to France under the Dublin Accord that was in force between EU Member States. We didn't. And wow we have left the EU we can't.

But I agree the solution to this has to be, can only be, an agreement with France to return them to France and with regard to Albania to return them directly to Albania. Rwanda is really only useful IMHO as a "stick" to threaten that as the choice of be removed to there or to Albania.

As for leaving the ECHR be careful what you wish for. An old legal saying is that "hard cases make bad law". That is to say the ECHR may be perceived to be about "helping left lawyers settle illegal immigrants in the UK" but it is far more than that. 

The present Government doesn't like it so seeks to use the issue of illegal immigrants to try to denigrate the ECHR and with it the protections that it gives us..yes us...born and bred here in the UK.

Your absolutely deluding yourself if you believe we could send them back via the Dublin accord and EU membership, the EU and its open leaky borders is literally the biggest cause of the economic migrant invasion, right across Europe, to hold EU membership up as the solution is laughable.