Shotgun Ammo Impacts in Slow Motion

[Stonepark]

A decent video showing the energy dispersion of shotgun pellets and slugs on impact.

 

 

[Poor Shot]

Interesting..

Puts the long shot string myth to bed. The shot group seemed to be no longer than 12" from front to back. I can't imaging that would extend all that much at further ranges either.

Also loved the clean exit of the plastic WAD from the barrel. Compared to footage of fibre WADs I've seen which have a ton of blow by of combustion gasses. Though the fibre WAD buck seemed to do ok.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Poor Shot

[ditchman]

worth a watch...........

[wymberley]

13 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Interesting..

Puts the long shot string myth to bed. The shot group seemed to be no longer than 12" from front to back. I can't imaging that would extend all that much at further ranges either.

Also loved the clean exit of the plastic WAD from the barrel. Compared to footage of fibre WADs I've seen which have a ton of blow by of combustion gasses. Though the fibre WAD buck seemed to do ok.

Are you sure? I can't grasp how countless trials done over countless decades have produced results which qualify as mythical. Apart from the minor detail that I didn't catch any mention of the range used, have you taken into account the film speed which is a minimum of c22 and/or c150 times that of the shot even at the muzzle?

[ditchman]

interesting to see the armour peircing round punch a coupon out of the plate....yet only penitrates 1/3rd of the way.....

[adzyvilla]

More velocity and it would have made it through, i do wonder how much energy that ball lost between the muzzle and the plate, scary that it still had enough to do that to solid steel. I was most impressed with the way the plate rippled with the impacts.

[Poor Shot]

7 hours ago, wymberley said:

Are you sure? I can't grasp how countless trials done over countless decades have produced results which qualify as mythical. Apart from the minor detail that I didn't catch any mention of the range used, have you taken into account the film speed which is a minimum of c22 and/or c150 times that of the shot even at the muzzle?

Yes, it was clear as day in the video. The shot travelled as a cloud and not a long string of shot. I would imagine that the range shown In some clips is about 15-20 yards. It's unlikely that the shot would extend out into a long string over the next 20-30 yards either. The more deformed pellets may slow down quicker and leg behind but that doesn't really qualify as a shot string.

The speed of the film is irrelevant. Whether the video was shot at 50 frames per second or 250,000 frames per second, the shot will still be traveling in the same way.

It's a long time myth that the shot is expelled from the barrel and travels in a long string through which you aim to have your target travel. Those who are completely clueless will even claim you can manipulate the shot string to bend through a target by the speed of your swing or that you aim to have your target intersect the shot string rather than have the cloud of shot hit your target.

[wymberley]

10 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Yes, it was clear as day in the video. The shot travelled as a cloud and not a long string of shot. I would imagine that the range shown In some clips is about 15-20 yards. It's unlikely that the shot would extend out into a long string over the next 20-30 yards either. The more deformed pellets may slow down quicker and leg behind but that doesn't really qualify as a shot string.

The speed of the film is irrelevant. Whether the video was shot at 50 frames per second or 250,000 frames per second, the shot will still be traveling in the same way.

It's a long time myth that the shot is expelled from the barrel and travels in a long string through which you aim to have your target travel. Those who are completely clueless will even claim you can manipulate the shot string to bend through a target by the speed of your swing or that you aim to have your target intersect the shot string rather than have the cloud of shot hit your target.

Cheers.

Would you consider that some 90% of the pattern would make up the 'cloud', leaving the remaining 10% as the 'string'? If not, would you care to post your idea of the percentages?

[London Best]

What was clear in the video was that the shot string was much longer than the spread of the pattern.

[wymberley]

6 minutes ago, London Best said:

What was clear in the video was that the shot string was much longer than the spread of the pattern.

Nice one!  Well spotted; that observation could well save some typing.

[Poor Shot]

23 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Nice one!  Well spotted; that observation could well save some typing.

The best '3D' shot I could get from the video. The side on shots don't show the entire diameter of the pattern.

While the cloud of shot is marginally longer than the pattern is wide it hardly constitutes a shot string. 

It's definitely more of a moving cloud or swarm than a long column of shot moving through the air.

[wymberley]

16 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

The best '3D' shot I could get from the video. The side on shots don't show the entire diameter of the pattern.

While the cloud of shot is marginally longer than the pattern is wide it hardly constitutes a shot string. 

It's definitely more of a moving cloud or swarm than a long column of shot moving through the air.

So, is the 90% acceptable or would you rather it was less?

[London Best]

I think the target was so close the string had not had time to develop much.

[Poor Shot]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

So, is the 90% acceptable or would you rather it was less?

Yep, I'll go with that.

I was aiming more along the lines of those who say that the shot forms a 12ft long string that you can manipulate by swinging the barrels fast.

[Ultrastu]

There was a thread on this last year  after a guy did a massive experiment  on utube , using many different loads at different ranges   and some carts surprisingly did string out lots and other carts held a very short " cloud "  

Suffice to say there isn't a single rule to this . Other than to say the speeds of shot gun pellets are very fast and even the longest " string " will all pass through a target bird flying very fast at 90 degree to it even at 40 plus yards  - in effect making the pattern flat as far as your quarry is concerned  .

[rbrowning2]

 

[Ultrastu]

No one can manipulate the shot string by moving a barrel fast .they all leave at the same time ie in the same length as they are when in the cartridge . They are pushed from behind  so probably a touch shorter as they will be compressed slightly  under massive acceleration .

Just now, rbrowning2 said:

 

Cheers you found it.

[wymberley]

13 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Yep, I'll go with that.

I was aiming more along the lines of those who say that the shot forms a 12ft long string that you can manipulate by swinging the barrels fast.

Yep, the hose-pipe effect long since dismissed as bunkum.

The Ballistic Research Laboratory measured the 90% pattern 'string' at 40 metres as provided by 36g of No 3 lead shot through 0.030" choke as 4.5 metres - the whole load with the also rans stretched to 7.5 metres from the leading edge.

The 90% while passing the 40 metre mark (my eyeball looking at the graph) would have taken just 15 ms.

[Old farrier]

Interesting video and interesting stuff 

however is it relevant 

as far as I can see it is about to be obsolete with the onset of non lead cartridges and bio wads 

im sure they will perform in a different manner to lead 

[Fellside]

The old ‘shot string effect’ myth keeps getting recycled. I read a Shooting Times article a couple of years ago, in which the author told us that if you move your gun fast enough, it spreads the shot string… ?! He went on to explain how a pheasant flies through the shot string etc. Even despite the shot string effect being debunked by ballisticians from Winchester and Eley decades ago, the myth still has its allure. I’m sure my 18 gram 410 cart’s must have a long column. However it doesn’t concern me in the slightest, as there isn’t any ‘effect’, except that of a falling pigeon…… if I do my job properly……🙂.

Interesting video - thanks for posting Stonepark. 

[Gas seal]

Hi something different with shot string is on the Gould brothers film called ,creative ammo, shooting tooth picks at a water Mellon an aa battery and bubble gum. These guys know how to have fun with a gun. 

[Stonepark]

6 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi something different with shot string is on the Gould brothers film called ,creative ammo, shooting tooth picks at a water Mellon an aa battery and bubble gum. These guys know how to have fun with a gun. 

If you want shotgun firing of slugs and various items, little to beat Taofledermaus on Youtube.

[.357shooter]

very cool clip.have shot a lot of steel plate myself with .357m,44m,and .223.did shoot a 25mm thick ally billet at 100m with my .223 and that nearly went though it.

[.357shooter]

[derbyduck]

On 13/04/2023 at 19:56, Poor Shot said:

The best '3D' shot I could get from the video. The side on shots don't show the entire diameter of the pattern.

While the cloud of shot is marginally longer than the pattern is wide it hardly constitutes a shot string. 

It's definitely more of a moving cloud or swarm than a long column of shot moving through the air.

33,000 FPS thats nipping on a bit , my steel loads are around 15,00 FPS and they do the job for me !

that could be the reason there's no stringing , or its just not traveling far enough to show it ?

Edited August 11, 2023 by derbyduck