How long

[countryman]

Before we have a show down with Russia, apparently we are supplying more long range weapons to be used in the war. Thoughts.

[ditchman]

Putin will be deposed before that happens...............

its already on the cards as his mafia is getting very verbal against him ...and they are still alive ....think about it

Edited May 15, 2023 by ditchman

[manthing]

It'll be his ex kgb cronies or the mobsters that will take him out. They've been making money hand over fist in the West but they can't get to it now.

He thought it would all be over by now.

[Dave-G]

Problem  - maybe his successor might be even more hardline

[discobob]

I heard something on Saturday - one of the customers at the local shooting ground - just returned from Ukraine by car - been there a number of times during the conflict from what I gathered - and he was saying about how the Ukrainians are buying oil from Russia - and Russia is selling it to them......He said he couldn't understand it. I commented with could it be that it is all a diversion.....

[Dougy]

I said ages ago, its in the best interest of the rest of the world if it ends in house, it needs to be his own people that end it, by the sounds of it its sooner rather than later, but far too late for all the cannon fodder he's chuck in on the front line. 

[treetree]

It is a disgrace that we a being slowly dragged into to a war with Russia without any serious debate in Parliament.

We are going to end up horribly exposed as being the only nation supplying the more 'serious' weaponry.

We spent decades rightfully worried about a nuclear conflict during a 'cold' war, now we're in the middle of a 'hot' one and everyone is ignoring the possibility of it happening.

Does anyone imagine for a moment that Biden would risk a direct conflict with Russia to come to our aid should the unthinkable happen?

Our politicians, especially Sunak, Ellwood and Wallace need to realise that what is in Ukraine's best national interest isn't in ours.

 

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, treetree said:

It is a disgrace that we a being slowly dragged into to a war with Russia without any serious debate in Parliament.

We are going to end up horribly exposed as being the only nation supplying the more 'serious' weaponry.

We spent decades rightfully worried about a nuclear conflict during a 'cold' war, now we're in the middle of a 'hot' one and everyone is ignoring the possibility of it happening.

Does anyone imagine for a moment that Biden would risk a direct conflict with Russia to come to our aid should the unthinkable happen?

Our politicians, especially Sunak, Ellwood and Wallace need to realise that what is in Ukraine's best national interest isn't in ours.

 

and what would we be looking at now if we didnt come to Ukraines aid ?.........

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, treetree said:

the only nation supplying the more 'serious' weaponry.

We aren't.

We happen to be the leader in some fields, but the USA has supplied FAR more than us, we supplied a few tanks (14?) and since many other countries have followed with similar numbers or more.   The same will probably happen with missiles.

Poland is sending 5 fighter aircraft, the USA is sending/has sent anti missile technology ......... we are very far from alone.

[treetree]

43 minutes ago, ditchman said:

and what would we be looking at now if we didnt come to Ukraines aid ?.........

Maybe a negotiated settlement if Zelensky hadn't been talked out of talks with the promise of support and weapons.

Where are we now,  over a year in?

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

We aren't.

We happen to be the leader in some fields, but the USA has supplied FAR more than us, we supplied a few tanks (14?) and since many other countries have followed with similar numbers or more.   The same will probably happen with missiles.

Poland is sending 5 fighter aircraft, the USA is sending/has sent anti missile technology ......... we are very far from alone.

We are normally the first (tanks and cruise missiles). There is nothing to say others will follow.

I just heard that the depleted uranium tipped munitions we supplied all just got blow up anyway. Not sure if trie yet...

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, treetree said:

Maybe a negotiated settlement if Zelensky hadn't been talked out of talks with the promise of support and weapons.

Where are we now,  over a year in?

So you were expecting Zelensky to capitulate and give Russia Ukrainian territory?

[treetree]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So you were expecting Zelensky to capitulate and give Russia Ukrainian territory?

Not for me to expect anything, but I do know that talks are better than war.

Are you expecting Ukraine to retake the Crimea?

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, treetree said:

There is nothing to say others will follow.

They did with tanks. 

8 minutes ago, treetree said:

all just got blow up anyway.

It happens in conflicts.  Seems to come as a surprise to some.

[Vince Green]

7 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Problem  - maybe his successor might be even more hardline

This ^^^

Certainly more corrupt if that's possible.

You have to remember Putin is quite 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

12 hours ago, treetree said:

Not for me to expect anything, but I do know that talks are better than war.

Are you expecting Ukraine to retake the Crimea?

Talks are only better than war for the aggressor!

I do not expect Ukraine to retake the Crimea, russia would never allow that to happen.

[udderlyoffroad]

17 hours ago, treetree said:

It is a disgrace that we a being slowly dragged into to a war with Russia without any serious debate in Parliament.

Total and utter sham of the highest order.

All those who think we should be arming that actor/warmonger Zelensky to increasingly escalate a conflict need to give their heads a wobble.  Most people couldn’t point to Ukraine on a map, let alone care about its geostrategic importance.

But these, I suspect, are the same people who repeatedly agitated for ever harsher lockdowns, despite the clear and obvious damage they were causing.  Unthinking support of the ‘current thing’.

And since it needs explicitly stating, no I’m not a Putin apologist. Dictator he may be, but Zelensky is little better. 

[treetree]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

 

I do not expect Ukraine to retake the Crimea, russia would never allow that to happen.

I'm confused then. Are you suggesting that we continue to fund and arm the Ukraine to throw more men into the meat grinder for an unachievable objective, or are you advocating for a negotiated settlement?

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Total and utter sham of the highest order.

All those who think we should be arming that actor/warmonger Zelensky to increasingly escalate a conflict need to give their heads a wobble.  Most people couldn’t point to Ukraine on a map, let alone care about its geostrategic importance.

But these, I suspect, are the same people who repeatedly agitated for ever harsher lockdowns, despite the clear and obvious damage they were causing.  Unthinking support of the ‘current thing’.

And since it needs explicitly stating, no I’m not a Putin apologist. Dictator he may be, but Zelensky is little better. 

My take is we and most of the rest of the European continent are arming Ukraine to fight off Russia from taking more of the continent - potentially us too. 'Together we stand'

[welsh1]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Total and utter sham of the highest order.

All those who think we should be arming that actor/warmonger Zelensky to increasingly escalate a conflict need to give their heads a wobble.  Most people couldn’t point to Ukraine on a map, let alone care about its geostrategic importance.

But these, I suspect, are the same people who repeatedly agitated for ever harsher lockdowns, despite the clear and obvious damage they were causing.  Unthinking support of the ‘current thing’.

And since it needs explicitly stating, no I’m not a Putin apologist. Dictator he may be, but Zelensky is little better. 

Always remember that this war would not be ongoing if russia had not invaded Ukraine.

As for escalating a conflict, would you like Ukraine to lay down its arms and capitulate to an aggressor? they are defending their country.

[treetree]

2 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

My take is we and most of the rest of the European continent are arming Ukraine to fight off Russia from taking more of the continent - potentially us too. 'Together we stand'

What, the Russian army which seems bogged down in the East of Ukraine is going to suddenly steam roll across Europe, while fighting a proper war against NATO? 

[Dave-G]

1 minute ago, treetree said:

What, the Russian army which seems bogged down in the East of Ukraine is going to suddenly steam roll across Europe, while fighting a proper war against NATO? 

I didn't say that. Nato (A defence collective) is I think stronger than Russia by standing together. Its better for Nato members to confine the war to Ukraine and Russia.

[udderlyoffroad]

2 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Always remember that this war would not be ongoing if russia had not invaded Ukraine.

It is way, way, more nuanced than that.

If you must confine yourself to 'Zelensky good, Putin Baaaad' sort of black and white thinking, then frankly I have neither the time nor energy to try to convince you otherwise.  I am confident I will be proven correct.

 

16 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

As for escalating a conflict, would you like Ukraine to lay down its arms and capitulate to an aggressor? they are defending their country.

I would like a negotiated ceasefire, something we should be demanding the 2 sides do. NOT continually throwing ever more money and weaponry at one corrupt regime in its fight against another.

To support those 'defending their country' is to support unwilling conscripts sitting in foxholes being blown to bits by Chinese drones carrying as much C4 as they can muster and a squib.  The 21st century's version of trench warfare. 

And if you don't care about that, be in no doubt that all those weapons and cash being funnelled towards Zelensky and his cronies, will be used in terrorist attacks against us, very soon.

[Vince Green]

Putin"s often stated wish is to re take control of all the land covered by the old Soviet USSR. That is why so many countries like Lithuania are so worried.

Very reminiscent of Hitlers early ambition to restore the territory it lost after WW1

If, as is often speculated, Putin is the richest man in the world. 

Anyone wanting to topple him will be after his money and not give a toss about the war

Edited May 16, 2023 by Vince Green

[welsh1]

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It is way, way, more nuanced than that.

If you must confine yourself to 'Zelensky good, Putin Baaaad' sort of black and white thinking, then frankly I have neither the time nor energy to try to convince you otherwise.  I am confident I will be proven correct.

 

I would like a negotiated ceasefire, something we should be demanding the 2 sides do. NOT continually throwing ever more money and weaponry at one corrupt regime in its fight against another.

To support those 'defending their country' is to support unwilling conscripts sitting in foxholes being blown to bits by Chinese drones carrying as much C4 as they can muster and a squib.  The 21st century's version of trench warfare. 

And if you don't care about that, be in no doubt that all those weapons and cash being funnelled towards Zelensky and his cronies, will be used in terrorist attacks against us, very soon.

It really is as simple as that, if russia had not invaded then this war would not be ongoing would it. you may want to play with other things about the dombass and free state, but it is a very simple fact russia is invading another country, that country is defending itself.After all russia could have chosen to have talks on land they believed they were entitled to like civilised people do, but no they chose to go to war.

I care about everyone who is dying in this conflict that russia started and continues, but capitulation to an aggressor is not the answer.

[12gauge82]

If russia were stupid enough to attempt direct conflict with the UK in any way short of nuclear, we'd have them for breakfast, not to mention the nato alliance where an attack on one, is an attack on all.

I believe we and the rest of nato should supply ukraine the weaponry it needs to retake crimeia and if necessary, push into unoccupied Ukrainian territory and hold it for them.

I see similarities between Hitler and Putin and thank God the UK stepped up to the mark in that conflict despite all those who said we shouldn't get involved or negotiate instead at the time.