Airgun cabinet

[mellors]

Hi all. 

Just read on the net from 30/8/23 air guns need to be locked away if anyone under 18 visits the house and now recommended as good practice. 

Am i reading right if so what's a reasonable cabinet for 4/5 airguns with scopes. 

Any help appreciated. 

 

[DUNKS]

Hi. Does it actually say that airguns MUST be locked away in cabinets? Or just that it's best if they are. I know that the owner of the guns is now responsible if airguns fall into the wrong hands but I see nothing about locking them away being actual law. Someone please show links.

 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, mellors said:

Hi all. 

Just read on the net from 30/8/23 air guns need to be locked away if anyone under 18 visits the house and now recommended as good practice. 

Am i reading right if so what's a reasonable cabinet for 4/5 airguns with scopes. 

Any help appreciated. 

 

Have you a link? 
Scotland may be different for all I know, but there is no requirement in English law to lock up your airguns. 

[JKD]

From the BASC website,,,,

Security

From February 2011, the Crime and Security Act 2010 made it an offence for a person in possession of an airgun to fail to take “reasonable precautions” to prevent someone under the age of 18 from gaining unauthorised access to it.

The legal advice contained within this publication remains unchanged, e.g. 14- to 17-year-olds may still use airguns unsupervised on private premises where they have permission.

For further advice about reasonable precautions for storing air rifles not in use, please contact BASC or see basc.org.uk for a copy of our factsheet Young People and Airguns.

[Scully]

57 minutes ago, JKD said:

From the BASC website,,,,

Security

From February 2011, the Crime and Security Act 2010 made it an offence for a person in possession of an airgun to fail to take “reasonable precautions” to prevent someone under the age of 18 from gaining unauthorised access to it.

The legal advice contained within this publication remains unchanged, e.g. 14- to 17-year-olds may still use airguns unsupervised on private premises where they have permission.

For further advice about reasonable precautions for storing air rifles not in use, please contact BASC or see basc.org.uk for a copy of our factsheet Young People and Airguns.

Thankyou. So no legal requirement to lock away your airguns. 

[JKD]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Thankyou. So no legal requirement to lock away your airguns. 

Couldn't find anything more up to date with a quick search, so expect not precisely "lock them away". But if the OP wants to get a gun safe, that's his choice.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[HantsRob]

On 31 July 2023, a Statutory Instrument will clarify the ‘reasonable precautions’ air weapons owners must take to safely store air weapons away from children. Whenever under 18s are present, air weapons must be stored securely, out of sight, and separately from ammunition.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/air-weapons-a-brief-guide-to-safety-jan-2011#:~:text=On 31 July 2023%2C a,sight%2C and separately from ammunition.

The referenced SI can be found here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2023/768/made
 

In short:
 

Storage of air weapons

2.—(1) For the purposes of section 24ZA(1) of the Firearms Act 1968(2) (“the Act”), “reasonable precautions to prevent any person under the age of eighteen from having an air weapon(3) with him” include storing an air weapon when it is not in use or is being cleaned, repaired, tested or in transit—

(a)securely to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the air weapon by a person under the age of eighteen;

(b)out of sight of a person under the age of eighteen; and

(c)separately from compatible ammunition(4).

(2) This rule does not apply to a rifle to which section 27A of the Act(5) applies.

 

In short we need to consider what "securely" means, and also be clear you cannot store pellets in the same place as your fun. It doesn't imply you need to lock away pellets, just have them elsewhere.

There have been guesses, "best pracrice", but no minimum. I would suggest your house is secure enough, however "reasonable precautions" could be in the loft where they can't access, or it could be a gun safe. 

This is very much real and already in effect on the 31st July. However, it is down to some interpretation, like many aspects of law.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

11 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

In short we need to consider what "securely" means, and also be clear you cannot store pellets in the same place as your fun. It doesn't imply you need to lock away pellets, just have them elsewhere.

There have been guesses, "best pracrice", but no minimum. I would suggest your house is secure enough, however "reasonable precautions" could be in the loft where they can't access, or it could be a gun safe. 

This is very much real and already in effect on the 31st July. However, it is down to some interpretation, like many aspects of law.

And just how often can we expect one of the invisible Police to call at the door to check you are following the guidance?   

[Mr.C]

I find best practice is to not let anyone under 18 in my house.

[Yellow Bear]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And just how often can we expect one of the invisible Police to call at the door to check you are following the guidance?   

Whenever they have a spare half day from not investigating hate speech😛🤣

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, you can get a 5/6 rifle cabinet off eBay about £150 

[udderlyoffroad]

Well there we are, actual government legislation - a statutory instrument - not policy or guidance - related to firearms.  Albeit air guns, and ambiguous to the point of uselessess.

Genius.

[Scully]

It’s almost as if under 18’s will be unable to resist the urge to shoot something if an airgun is present! 
When my kids were young I used to just tell them not to go near my airguns or their BB’s unless I was present.
They didn’t, but then again firearms of every kind were familiar to them on an almost daily basis from day one, including pistols and revolvers. 
The only kids who got fidgety with excitement and badgered me to let them see them ( I didn’t ) were those who weren’t familiar with them at all. 

[HantsRob]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And just how often can we expect one of the invisible Police to call at the door to check you are following the guidance?   

They would have to know you own it first.....

I would suggest this legislation could fall into the "when it goes wrong, this is the law we would use to prosecute you"

I do appreciate and enjoy your humour, it always tickles me. If it wasn't a rhetorical question, then the police are never invisible, just elsewhere (Hampshire have mandated they attend all theft reports so they'll be a bit busier!). As for checks? I think you could chop my hand off and count on my remaining fingers how often you can expect one....

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Well there we are, actual government legislation - a statutory instrument - not policy or guidance - related to firearms.  Albeit air guns, and ambiguous to the point of uselessess.

Genius.

Useless except in retrospect, or after the fact prosecution? Even then, still too ambiguous. 
That said, it's better than insisting they have a lockable safe for them.....

1 hour ago, Scully said:

It’s almost as if under 18’s will be unable to resist the urge to shoot something if an airgun is present! 
When my kids were young I used to just tell them not to go near my airguns or their BB’s unless I was present.

Scully, without any disrespect and without tarnishing you or your good family's name..... 

Reality is, many families were not brought up like yours. Not all are law abiding. Not all kids do as they are told. 

I am grateful you and yours were brought up correctly in this respect.

Edited August 29, 2023 by HantsRob

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

They would have to know you own it first.....

I would suggest this legislation could fall into the "when it goes wrong, this is the law we would use to prosecute you"

I do appreciate and enjoy your humour, it always tickles me. If it wasn't a rhetorical question, then the police are never invisible, just elsewhere (Hampshire have mandated they attend all theft reports so they'll be a bit busier!). As for checks? I think you could chop my hand off and count on my remaining fingers how often you can expect one....

Until Air Weapons are registered and licensed in England, it can only be  retrospective legislation to prosecute someone after a terrible event has happened. Closing the stable door without a horse ever having been in there.

Sorry Rob, the Police here in Stamford (Lincs) and Peterborough (Cambs) are invisible.

You are very lucky to have a decent Force in Hampshire.

I reckon you could go for both hands and still be over doing it!

[mellors]

Hi all. 

Decided to fit a new cabinet they are out the away at the moment but i can just see the question coming on renewal visit now. 

Do you have any airguns ???. 

Yes locked away in an approved cabinet. 

Definitely not worth them saying there not secure and all that goes with it even if its not required. 

Best to be seen to be responsible. 

My thoughts anyway. 

 

 

[Ultrastu]

I'm another sure of the law has changed in the last few weeks .but reasonable precautions  for under 18s has usually meant (in my eyes at least ) if you have only todlers in the house then the chance of them operating a gun is virtually nil .so keep them where you want almost .

2 - 6 year olds  maybe keep them on a high shelf in the wardrobe out of reach  pellets separate. 

6   - 10 maybe  in the loft or away in the garage. Locked room .

Older than that maybe have the guns also with trigger locks  or in a locking rifle case  or if you want your guns all in one easy place in a secure gun cabinet .

It's all about reasonable precautions .a 2 year old in never in a million  years going to beak a barrel on a springer and load a pellet.  heck my 14 year old boy struggles with most of my springers ,when we are plinking .

A trigger lock is  cheap  and can be easily fitted and left on irrespective  of where the gun is - though out of sight and mind is usually a best idea .

And fulfills any legal  requirement to my understanding  .

[HantsRob]

14 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I reckon you could go for both hands and still be over doing it!

"I can count on one stump the last time I saw...."

It'll make shooting a bit more difficult mind.

18 hours ago, Mr.C said:

I find best practice is to not let anyone under 18 in my house.

I'd suggest that is my stance also!

[Gas seal]

Hi mellors l use air rifles I always keep them out of sight and locked up. it’s common sense ,why wait for the government to tell us to keep air guns locked away. As you said it’s about responsibility. Children have been killed or injured with air guns in their own home. 

[Scully]

Had forgotten about this thread. The fact is, if we need to be legislated or even told that we shouldn’t leave airguns where minors can access them, then we’re past helping. 
You can’t legislate against idiots or those who don’t care about laws. 

[Biffo1262]

On 29/08/2023 at 11:00, Scully said:

Have you a link? 
Scotland may be different for all I know, but there is no requirement in English law to lock up your airguns. 

Yes there is to a certain extent. You must make you guns secure from anyone under 18 years of age.  Secure can simply be interpreted as in a locked room.  Trigger locks or any type of gun lock or lockable gun case.  If the children are small, even a simple slide bolt at the top of the door qualifies.  Just a matter of commonsense.

[Scully]

10 hours ago, Biffo1262 said:

Yes there is to a certain extent. You must make you guns secure from anyone under 18 years of age.  Secure can simply be interpreted as in a locked room.  Trigger locks or any type of gun lock or lockable gun case.  If the children are small, even a simple slide bolt at the top of the door qualifies.  Just a matter of commonsense.

The OP asked for advice for a cabinet to lock away his airgun. There is no requirement by law to do so. 
Scotland may be different as they’re now on license, but there is no requirement to do so in England. 
Keeping them from the accessibility of minors and such is common sense, as I’ve already said, but if anyone has to be told that, then they’re beyond help and probably shouldn’t have one anyhow.