Proposed Bully XL ban

[FOXHUNTER1]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

This is the reality of many of the owners of dogs that end up killing.

Its got far more to do with the owner than what breed of dog it is.

 

The  owners should be PTS.

[12gauge82]

6 hours ago, FOXHUNTER1 said:

The  owners should be PTS.

Exactly, what chance has a dog got with people like that owning them.

[London Best]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Exactly, what chance has a dog got with people like that owning them.

Not a brain cell between them.

[DannyS]

https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/

Quite an interesting read.

Breeding **** to **** with man bitting in their messed up genetics, you end up with what we're seeing now. 

 

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, DannyS said:

https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/

Quite an interesting read.

Breeding **** to **** with man bitting in their messed up genetics, you end up with what we're seeing now. 

 

While genetics absolutely does play a large part in what drivers a dog has, I don't buy into this whole killer dog nonsense. It's been said before regarding many breeds of dog in the past and the far bigger issue at hand, generally speaking is the type of person owning these dogs.

Edited September 17, 2023 by 12gauge82

[12gauge82]

Take the video above I posted and look at the dogs body language. It's not one of a steely born killer, but a unsure, edgy immature dog that's getting no direction or leadership from it's owners. The only discipline it received was a kicking that it didn't understand. The results of which were fatal.

Dog owners like that who can no longer legally own a bully XL will simply own one illegally, cross breed something similar, acquire a similar breed or heaven forbid buy an even more powerful breed and tarnish it's reputation. 

If the government wants to tackle the issue of aggressive dogs, it needs to start at the biggest source of the problem, which is people.

[Duckandswing]

36 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Take the video above I posted and look at the dogs body language. It's not one of a steely born killer, but a unsure, edgy immature dog that's getting no direction or leadership from it's owners. The only discipline it received was a kicking that it didn't understand. The results of which were fatal.

Dog owners like that who can no longer legally own a bully XL will simply own one illegally, cross breed something similar, acquire a similar breed or heaven forbid buy an even more powerful breed and tarnish it's reputation. 

If the government wants to tackle the issue of aggressive dogs, it needs to start at the biggest source of the problem, which is people.

All valid points to be fair

[Agriv8]

They are common in houses that don’t want the police or other gangs knocking the door down 9 on a 5 am raid.

they are there to protect the merchandise and there owners rather illegal business enterprise ! 
 

being caught with an illegal breed will not worry them too much 

Agriv8

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Agriv8 said:

They are common in houses that don’t want the police or other gangs knocking the door down 9 on a 5 am raid.

they are there to protect the merchandise and there owners rather illegal business enterprise ! 
 

being caught with an illegal breed will not worry them too much 

Agriv8

Definitely, it's always the case that when banning something, if the offence of possession is less than the crime of using the banned item illegally, good people will hand the item in while criminals with Ill intent will just carry on.

[WalkedUp]

https://metro.co.uk/2023/09/24/man-attacked-by-xl-bully-days-after-defending-the-dogs-on-social-media-19550051/?ico=trending-post-strip_item_2

“A man who urged people to ‘stop blaming the wrong end of the leash’ over a recent spate of dog attacks has been mauled by one of the very XL Bully dogs he defended online. 

Ben Cźyżyk, 38, from Wolverhampton, was left with puncture wounds and bruising to his face after the incident on Friday night. 

The father-of-three was walking in the Tettenhall area of the city when he spotted an XL Bully wandering along without a lead at about 10pm.”

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, WalkedUp said:

https://metro.co.uk/2023/09/24/man-attacked-by-xl-bully-days-after-defending-the-dogs-on-social-media-19550051/?ico=trending-post-strip_item_2

Don't worry it's not me 😂

To be fair it sort of proves my point. A paragraph out of the article 

 

The owner is then alleged to have set the XL Bully on Mr Cźyżyk, before proceeding to also attack Mr Cźyżyk himself, eventually fleeing the scene with the dog in tow after police officers arrived. 

The scum owning the dog set it on him, do you think this would be any different if it were another status breed?

I know people will say but XL bullies are so powerful ect, but it doesn't hold water, there are plenty of other breeds even more powerful and even more bite drive.

For instance if I were to set some of the dogs I work around on someone (obviously I wouldn't) that person would be lucky if they walked out of hospital, none of those dogs are bull breeds.

[WalkedUp]

12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

20 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

 

Don't worry it's not me 😂

🤣🤣🤣

People are buying them as weapons because they are capable of extreme damage.
 

I see half a dozen or more of these dogs a day. The people with them are the ones who don’t seem to be gainfully employed. They certainly have a ‘type’. My employee was in London this weekend and accidentally crossed through the anti ban protest, said you couldn’t have found a rougher bunch of people. The press published pictures of the only blonde young women there. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by WalkedUp

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

🤣🤣🤣

People are buying them as weapons because they are capable of extreme damage.
 

I see half a dozen or more of these dogs a day. The people with them are the ones who don’t seem to be gainfully employed. They certainly have a ‘type’. My employee was in London this weekend and accidentally crossed through the anti ban protest, said you couldn’t have found a rougher bunch of people. The press published pictures of the only blonde young women there. 

They are and I'm sure most of the owners are the unsavoury type, but it only proves my point, there are so many breeds of dog capable of serious harm in the wrong hands, they can't ban them all, so all this legislation is going to do is glorify the breed causing more idiots to get them or cross breed them, or push idiots who can't get one to get another breed, for instance the Kangal is another one that the scrotes are currently buying.

They need to ban people, not dogs.

[JohnfromUK]

Where I live is a small village.  Many of the residents have dogs and I find it interesting how the dogs behave.  We have 4 dogs that I note as 'aggressive', and a great many that are not.

1. Local farmers sheepdogs bite both other dogs and humans.  From memory going back years, all that farmers sheep dogs have been aggressive to some degree.  They are allowed to roam loose and are responsible for more dog bites than all others put together.  Police have been called on more that one occasion I understand, but do nothing.
2. A local lady's Japanese Akita.  Bites both dogs and at least one human.  She cannot hold it, so it never goes out except when her son takes it out (he can hold it).
3. A spaniel - fairly elderly.  Completely off it's head and pulls it's elderly owner over if it sees another dog.  Can never be let off lead as they can't 'catch it'.  Once it does escape - it doesn't actually bite, but does make a lot of aggressive noise.  Clearly got a screw loose.
4. A Jack Russell.  Fortunately small - but goes for everything on 4 legs - snarling and barking.  Looks quite an old dog.

In addition, there is a Dachshund that is very noisy and barky, but quickly settles and I doubt would actually bite (though I wouldn't like to put that to the test!  The thing I note in common with all these dogs is that the owners just seem to 'put up with' the behaviour.

We also have a significant quantity of decent dogs - wide range of breeds - from very well behaved to a bit command deaf, but friendly - and plenty of dog socialisation goes on between those, but no one wants to encounter the numbered cases above.

Thank goodness, no XL Bully types to date - and I hope it stays that way.

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Where I live is a small village.  Many of the residents have dogs and I find it interesting how the dogs behave.  We have 4 dogs that I note as 'aggressive', and a great many that are not.

1. Local farmers sheepdogs bite both other dogs and humans.  From memory going back years, all that farmers sheep dogs have been aggressive to some degree.  They are allowed to roam loose and are responsible for more dog bites than all others put together.  Police have been called on more that one occasion I understand, but do nothing.
2. A local lady's Japanese Akita.  Bites both dogs and at least one human.  She cannot hold it, so it never goes out except when her son takes it out (he can hold it).
3. A spaniel - fairly elderly.  Completely off it's head and pulls it's elderly owner over if it sees another dog.  Can never be let off lead as they can't 'catch it'.  Once it does escape - it doesn't actually bite, but does make a lot of aggressive noise.  Clearly got a screw loose.
4. A Jack Russell.  Fortunately small - but goes for everything on 4 legs - snarling and barking.  Looks quite an old dog.

In addition, there is a Dachshund that is very noisy and barky, but quickly settles and I doubt would actually bite (though I wouldn't like to put that to the test!  The thing I note in common with all these dogs is that the owners just seem to 'put up with' the behaviour.

We also have a significant quantity of decent dogs - wide range of breeds - from very well behaved to a bit command deaf, but friendly - and plenty of dog socialisation goes on between those, but no one wants to encounter the numbered cases above.

Thank goodness, no XL Bully types to date - and I hope it stays that way.

I think the distinction there is you don't seem to have chavs or drug dealers who have bought a bully xl, put a massive chain and harness on it and are using it as either a weapon or a projection to show how 'hard' they are.

The problem with this new legislation is, these same people will still exist, the same problem of aggressive dogs will happen, it'll just be an illegally owned bull xl or a different breed. Take a look at a kangal , I don't mind mentioning it as the chavs are already well aware of them, make an effective ban of Bully XLs and that is likely the dog to replace them, ban them and there's a long list of other dogs, some I assure you have far more potential to do harm than a bully XL.

If they're serious about limiting severe dog attacks other than having a small list of acceptable breeds, banning dogs over a lean weight level (how that would work I have no idea due to overweight dogs ect), it would also mean labradors, pointers, large springers and other similar dogs would be caught out, or some sort of control on who owns dogs, which would mean some sort of licencing. The only other option is to leave it as it is and accept idiots will cause people to be injured and killed. I can see no other options. Politicians have simply made a new law based on public emotion and media pressure, nothing more.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think the distinction there is you don't seem to have chavs or drug dealers who have bought a bully xl, put a massive chain and harness on it and are using it as either a weapon or a projection to show how 'hard' they are.

That's true.  I was really only illustrating local situations that support the argument that in many cases it is the people not the dogs.

I have mixed views on the proposed 'ban'.

[12gauge82]

12 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

That's true.  I was really only illustrating local situations that support the argument that in many cases it is the people not the dogs.

I have mixed views on the proposed 'ban'.

Absolutely agreed, unfortunately without some very big change to how we own dogs in this country I'm not sure what can be done. I don't think it's just dog ownership either, I believe the problem lies with a loss of Conservative values and subsequently the loss of respect between people as a society, mix in a tidal wave of mass migration with no integration and the UKs culture has probably been changed/lost forever.

[Penelope]

As dog fighting and baiting are illegal no one needs to have a breed formerly/historically bred for those purposes. Simples.

[Rim Fire]

The two dogs in question had him down and there was nothing he could do i know this as i have the footage of the attack    you can't compare lets say a spaniel attacking someone a much smaller breed of dog     you can defend yourself with a smaller breed yes it's not the dogs fault but why do you need such a cross because they big enough to take down a human they should be licenced and you prove why you need such a breed of dog 

 

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, Penelope said:

As dog fighting and baiting are illegal no one needs to have a breed formerly/historically bred for those purposes. Simples.

What a load of nonsense, you could apply that logic to all sorts of things, particularly shooting.

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

The two dogs in question had him down and there was nothing he could do i know this as i have the footage of the attack    you can't compare lets say a spaniel attacking someone a much smaller breed of dog     you can defend yourself with a smaller breed yes it's not the dogs fault but why do you need such a cross because they big enough to take down a human they should be licenced and you prove why you need such a breed of dog 

 

To be fair, I'd rather see a licencing system for people rather than banning breeds altogether.

The problem is, there are many more breeds that are more powerful or with far higher drive if triggered, some breeds have both.

You can't keep banning specific breeds as the people who are actually causing the problems will just keep shifting what breeds they own.

Basically, the legislation is aimed at the wrong half of the equation, it's so simalar to the stigma we get as shooters and will be as effective as targeting weapons instead of the people using them, like banning calibres to stop criminals shooting people.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

You can't keep banning specific breeds as the people who are actually causing the problems will just keep shifting what breeds they own.

Basically, the legislation is aimed at the wrong half of the equation, it's so simalar to the stigma we get as shooters and will be as effective as targeting weapons instead of the people using them, like banning calibres to stop criminals shooting people.

Yes you can, eventually it would solve the problem.

[12gauge82]

13 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes you can, eventually it would solve the problem.

Appoliges you could, but you'd soon discover that any dog over 20kg with the right traits bred into it with a lack of proper training, or perhaps anti training is a better word, is more than capable of killing an adult, let alone a child. 

Question for you, Do you honestly believe the people who are currently buying these bully XLs won't just continue either, illegal ownership, cross breeding similar dogs that Dont fall into the legal definition of a bully XL, or buy a completely different breed which is just as powerful?

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Appoliges you could, but you'd soon discover that any dog over 20kg with the right traits bred into it with a lack of proper training, or perhaps anti training is a better word, is more than capable of killing an adult, let alone a child. 

Question for you, Do you honestly believe the people who are currently buying these bully XLs won't just continue either, illegal ownership, cross breeding similar dogs that Dont fall into the legal definition of a bully XL, or buy a completely different breed which is just as powerful?

So ban every breed that would be that heavy!   

Simples.

 

As to your second point, I very much feel that these low lifes will ALWAYS find a way to impart their supposed superiority, just like the big posh car brigade.

[Penelope]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

What a load of nonsense, you could apply that logic to all sorts of things, particularly shooting.

Well, justify why the fighting/baiting breeds are needed, then?