Pension triple lock under review !!!!

[armsid]

The state pension when introduced by the post war Labour gov. the minister said A payment from your wages to the government called National Insurance will give you a pension at retirement When was this statement recinded and when was it called a benifit?there are people in this country have worked hard payed into a private pension seen it scuppered by chancellors failling companies corrupt bosses and lost out then you get people that have been capable to work but declined due to the welfare system being so good and then people on good wages being able to claim tax credits housing benifit and all the other benifits all tax free yet not one MP points out these costs to the state us the tax payer all they do is lamblast the OAP,s as being to blame for the high cost to the country 

[Yellow Bear]

5 minutes ago, armsid said:

scuppered by chancellors

One actually robbed the pension funds

[amateur]

57 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

One actually robbed the pension funds

Oh, wasn't he Labour?

[London Best]

9 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

One actually robbed the pension funds

 

8 hours ago, amateur said:

Oh, wasn't he Labour?

The Conservatives are usually caught with the call girls, the Labour men often run off with the money and the Liberals are often caught with each other.

[oowee]

18 hours ago, amateur said:

Surely the whole point of the SRP is that it is for those who are too old to work and to maintain a basic level of support.

The old work- and almshouses, which were the only alternative to starvation and death for the elderly in the past, are, thankfully, long gone.

The current SRP is too low for most to exist on, but, fortunately, many supplement it with their private pensions.

Sunak and Starmer will find meddling with it very costly.

👍 The administration of the pension benefit, has not been able to adapt with changing life styles and life expectancy. As we live longer the payments must reduce or the start of payments must be prolonged. Meddling with it by any political party is simply too costly. Unfortunately like the NHS there are too many votes involved to redevelop the systems to be sustainable and deliver a more effective outcome.

I wonder if it's the ever increasing level of entitlement within a developed economy that will eventually bring it down. 

 

[12gauge82]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

👍 

I wonder if it's the ever increasing level of entitlement within a developed economy that will eventually bring it down. 

 

What has led to the collapse of many past civilizations is the elites taking too much from the workers until society collapses on itself. The government would do well to rember it's the workers who do the work that keeps the economy flowing and notthe top 1% who's pay has increased exponentially while the living standards of everyone else has taken a huge hit. The last thing that needs to happen is to hit those who have had a life of graft and rightly now deserve to put there blistered feet up and enjoy the life they have left.

The absolute cheek on some of these people is incredible.

[12gauge82]

Here's a good example. Someone who sees workers as cattle and has clearly forgotten the people who helped to get him where he is now.

https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1812855/tim-gurner-unemployment-apology/amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16947631300830&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.express.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2F1812855%2Ftim-gurner-unemployment-apology

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, there's 1 Gym not to join 🤔

[Bigteddy1954]

Hi folks every time there's an uplift in pension payments the working people always have a go at have uch it's going to cost .Yet we in the UK give foreign aid to 132 countries at a cost of 12.8 billion pounds a year.Then there's the cost of housing the boat people of 6 million a day yet people on here begrudge the pensioners who have worked 46+ years a meager yearly rise . Should be ashamed of themselves. My  state pension + my private pension is less than 16k but I still pay tax above the allowance of the meager £12570 threshold. So some people should think before the condemn. Cheers teddy

[derbyduck]

42 minutes ago, Bigteddy1954 said:

Hi folks every time there's an uplift in pension payments the working people always have a go at have uch it's going to cost .Yet we in the UK give foreign aid to 132 countries at a cost of 12.8 billion pounds a year.Then there's the cost of housing the boat people of 6 million a day yet people on here begrudge the pensioners who have worked 46+ years a meager yearly rise . Should be ashamed of themselves. My  state pension + my private pension is less than 16k but I still pay tax above the allowance of the meager £12570 threshold. So some people should think before the condemn. Cheers teddy

Well said !

 What a lot on here seem to think is once you retire you are no longer a Tax payer ! if you are one of these then you should get your head from up your **** and look at all the things we are taxed on , its not just income tax that goes into the chancellors coffers ! 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Bigteddy1954 said:

Hi folks every time there's an uplift in pension payments the working people always have a go at have uch it's going to cost .Yet we in the UK give foreign aid to 132 countries at a cost of 12.8 billion pounds a year.Then there's the cost of housing the boat people of 6 million a day yet people on here begrudge the pensioners who have worked 46+ years a meager yearly rise . Should be ashamed of themselves. My  state pension + my private pension is less than 16k but I still pay tax above the allowance of the meager £12570 threshold. So some people should think before the condemn. Cheers teddy

As someone still working I can only agree, as far as I'm concerned the pension should double before I'd see a cut.

We're constantly told there's no money, yet how much did the government pull out when they wanted to lock the country down, or use public money to bail out private banks.

[Bigteddy1954]

Hi folks at the moment the gov is looking at reducing the state pension rise from 8.5% to 7.8 % because the ave wages growth includes the one off payment issued to some public sector workers e.g the NHS and teachers and other workers to break the strike action they where taking Now 5 days a go the UK will provide 2 billion dollars to the Green climate fund .The biggest single funding commitment the UK has made to help the world tackle climate change .Yet they looking at reducing the pension rise by .7% because it's unsustainable to give the full 8.5% what a joke.The gov will save about 600 million along way off the 2 billion they giving the green climate fund .cheers teddy

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, Bigteddy1954 said:

Hi folks every time there's an uplift in pension payments the working people always have a go at have uch it's going to cost .Yet we in the UK give foreign aid to 132 countries at a cost of 12.8 billion pounds a year.Then there's the cost of housing the boat people of 6 million a day yet people on here begrudge the pensioners who have worked 46+ years a meager yearly rise . Should be ashamed of themselves. My  state pension + my private pension is less than 16k but I still pay tax above the allowance of the meager £12570 threshold. So some people should think before the condemn. Cheers teddy

If the index linked rise is abandoned for the general state pension it should be abandoned for all state paid pensions - can see the civil service will love that.

[oowee]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

As someone still working I can only agree, as far as I'm concerned the pension should double before I'd see a cut.

We're constantly told there's no money, yet how much did the government pull out when they wanted to lock the country down, or use public money to bail out private banks.

It would be great to see the pension double but this is also part of the problem when the population as a whole, or even a portion of the [population, feel the same way. Votes can be made on the back of an offer to make it happen and it further fuels the entitlement problem.

If the offer were made vote for me and I will double the pension and at the same time half the tax threshold (no idea if that adds up) and the vote would likely be different. It all has to be paid for. 

Its so much easier for those in charge to give and so hard to remove. 

This for me is one of the reasons the country would benefit from some sort of independent financial control on spending. A body with teeth to bring reality to the table. How we do that is anyones guess. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

This for me is one of the reasons the country would benefit from some sort of independent financial control on spending. A body with teeth to bring reality to the table. How we do that is anyones guess. 

Labour would vote this down instantly with the help of tory rebels/SNP and the libs.

I reckon its a red herring anyway, they will keep the triple lock, but with the proviso the retirement age is upped a year, maybe two....
This will effectively kill the tory chances of retaining power, and let labour swoop in , who will do nothing to rectify it, (even though their election manifesto will promise to do just that) and then tax the bejesus out of everyone.
Its a lose lose situation for everyone.

Get ready to die before you ever see your pension less than 50 somethings.

[wymberley]

3 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

If the index linked rise is abandoned for the general state pension it should be abandoned for all state paid pensions - can see the civil service will love that.

Not all civil servants are in the 'mandarin league'. For myself and all the other 'industrials', thanks a bunch.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It would be great to see the pension double but this is also part of the problem when the population as a whole, or even a portion of the [population, feel the same way. Votes can be made on the back of an offer to make it happen and it further fuels the entitlement problem.

If the offer were made vote for me and I will double the pension and at the same time half the tax threshold (no idea if that adds up) and the vote would likely be different. It all has to be paid for. 

Its so much easier for those in charge to give and so hard to remove. 

This for me is one of the reasons the country would benefit from some sort of independent financial control on spending. A body with teeth to bring reality to the table. How we do that is anyones guess. 

I think your looking at this upside down, the way things are going, people are going to be better off on benefits than actually working, some already are and I would guess pride is the only thing stopping them from doing so.

The way you speak is as if workers in average jobs bring no value to this country and should be great full for receiving less than nothing. Governments and the elites of society would do well to remember it is the backs of the people they step on that gives them their wealth, power and status and if they don't share a small amount of the wealth the workers generate, like all great civilizations before us will end up falling when there's no longer enough crumbs left to share at the bottom.

To attack the pensions of the working masses when so much of all our money is wasted on other things, particularly when these wasteful policys are often driven by government and the elites of society is outrageous.

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think your looking at this upside down, the way things are going, people are going to be better off on benefits than actually working, some already are and I would guess pride is the only thing stopping them from doing so.

The way you speak is as if workers in average jobs bring no value to this country and should be great full for receiving less than nothing. Governments and the elites of society would do well to remember it is the backs of the people they step on that gives them their wealth, power and status and if they don't share a small amount of the wealth the workers generate, like all great civilizations before us will end up falling when there's no longer enough crumbs left to share at the bottom.

To attack the pensions of the working masses when so much of all our money is wasted on other things, particularly when these wasteful policys are often driven by government and the elites of society is outrageous.

In no way am i intending to attack pensions other than pointing out that we are paying out more than we are getting in. There needs to be some relationship between the two. 

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Labour would vote this down instantly with the help of tory rebels/SNP and the libs.

I reckon its a red herring anyway, they will keep the triple lock, but with the proviso the retirement age is upped a year, maybe two....
This will effectively kill the tory chances of retaining power, and let labour swoop in , who will do nothing to rectify it, (even though their election manifesto will promise to do just that) and then tax the bejesus out of everyone.
Its a lose lose situation for everyone.

Get ready to die before you ever see your pension less than 50 somethings.

We currently have the highest taxation ever under this Tory regime. It still needs reform. Maybe a change of govt would rebalance the program in favour of those at the lower income levels. Lets face it, it could hardly be worse.  

[amateur]

Just now, oowee said:

......Lets face it, it could hardly be worse.  

History and experience tells us that it certainly would be.

[Yellow Bear]

12 minutes ago, oowee said:

We currently have the highest taxation ever under this Tory regime

How short is your memory - I can remember 34% income tax plus NI and VAT  in the late 70s under Labour governments.

[12gauge82]

37 minutes ago, oowee said:

In no way am i intending to attack pensions other than pointing out that we are paying out more than we are getting in. There needs to be some relationship between the two. 

 

So why is it that you think the workers, the very people who actually create the wealth and see hardly any of the wealth they create, many are struggling to make ends meet or pay the bills why should they have to cut back further, when over the last couple of decades the elites have amassed more and more share of the pie, perhaps it's time the government shut the doors to economic migration, did away with the globalistic agenda that has only benefited the very rich and turn back towards a high skilled high pay economy that would slow growth putting money back in the pockets of the average Joe instead of some insanely rich CEOs shell company abroad, or their next super yacht.

Pensioners are the very last people we should be attacking they've done their bit and rightly deserve to enjoy the bit of life they have left.

Edited September 15, 2023 by 12gauge82

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

How short is your memory - I can remember 34% income tax plus NI and VAT  in the late 70s under Labour governments.

Exactly, and they would have no issue doing that again, with higher VAT into the bargain.
Would they spend this added income wisely ? History says not.

[oowee]

29 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

How short is your memory - I can remember 34% income tax plus NI and VAT  in the late 70s under Labour governments.

Its only part of the story. The UK's tax burden is set to rise to a record post war high of 37.7% of GDP. Compare that to the end of the 70's when it was the lowest in the EU 14. 

47 minutes ago, amateur said:

History and experience tells us that it certainly would be.

See above. 

14 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

So why is it that you think the workers, the very people who actually create the wealth and see hardly any of the wealth they create, many are struggling to make ends meet or pay the bills why should they have to cut back further, when over the last couple of decades the elites have amassed more and more share of the pie, perhaps it's time the government shut the doors to economic migration, did away with the globalistic agenda that has only benefited the very rich and turn back towards a high skilled high pay economy that would slow growth putting money back in the pockets of the average Joe instead of some insanely rich CEOs shell company abroad, or their next super yacht.

Pensioners are the very last people we should be attacking they've done their bit and rightly deserve to enjoy the bit of life they have left.

I am not attacking them it's simply a matter of balancing the equation. Hard choices have to be made and we are not making any of them as they are politically toxic. Care provision would be the obvious one, housing costs, energy generation, EU ytade.

 

[12gauge82]

43 minutes ago, oowee said:

Its only part of the story. The UK's tax burden is set to rise to a record post war high of 37.7% of GDP. Compare that to the end of the 70's when it was the lowest in the EU 14. 

See above. 

I am not attacking them it's simply a matter of balancing the equation. Hard choices have to be made and we are not making any of them as they are politically toxic. Care provision would be the obvious one, housing costs, energy generation, EU ytade.

 

The equation is already massively out of balance for the working masses and cutting pensioners money or taking the workers is the totally wrong place to start.

[old man]

21 hours ago, armsid said:

The state pension when introduced by the post war Labour gov. the minister said A payment from your wages to the government called National Insurance will give you a pension at retirement When was this statement recinded and when was it called a benifit?there are people in this country have worked hard payed into a private pension seen it scuppered by chancellors failling companies corrupt bosses and lost out then you get people that have been capable to work but declined due to the welfare system being so good and then people on good wages being able to claim tax credits housing benifit and all the other benifits all tax free yet not one MP points out these costs to the state us the tax payer all they do is lamblast the OAP,s as being to blame for the high cost to the country 

The politicos that run this country have spent years working to make the lives of the population as controlled as possible with their sponsors reaping maximum revenue in the process?

Why they do this is a total mystery, there must be a payback somewhere?