Net Zero

[7daysinaweek]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Good for you! 
Diesel all the way for me.
I decided when all this electric car rubbish first started that I was not going to have one. By 1935, with any luck, I will be 87 so possibly won’t be needing one.

Good stuff LB and heres to you still posting at 87. 👍

I will be 65 then and if am not dead will hopefully still be plodding along.

I have just gone back to a diesel 2.5 awd auto 4x4 and I am getting better economy to my previous awd petrol 2.0 4x4. I too hope to see out my years in a vehicle that 'i wish to drive' and not a vehicle of choice of some political crony party. 

 

NET ZERO GOVERMENT INITIATIVES

I go to the supermarket.

I buy a packet of pasta (wrapped in plastic)

a loaf of bread (wrapped in plastic)

a packet of tea (inner coated in plastic)

a some chicken (wrapped in plastic)

 a bottle of milk (wrapped in plastic)

when I get to the checkout they ask me do I want a non plastic bag as 'it's good for the enviroment'. 

[oowee]

47 minutes ago, Rem260 said:

I propose you come back to planet earth and face the reality that we are no where near able to fulfil your net zero fantasies without huge cost to the tax payer.

I also propose when China and India show good faith by being 75% net zero compliant. Then the UK can join in.

It's not my fantasy. I do believe its the way to go but getting there is another matter. China's pollution is of course in part fuelled by our demand. At some point in the future we can ratchet up the pressure through carbon taxes. Not so easy to do for a small country but I am sure the EU will lead the way for us.

 

39 minutes ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Good stuff LB and heres to you still posting at 87. 👍

I will be 65 then and if am not dead will hopefully still be plodding along.

I have just gone back to a diesel 2.5 awd auto 4x4 and I am getting better economy to my previous awd petrol 2.0 4x4. I too hope to see out my years in a vehicle that 'i wish to drive' and not a vehicle of choice of some political crony party. 

 

NET ZERO GOVERMENT INITIATIVES

I go to the supermarket.

I buy a packet of pasta (wrapped in plastic)

a loaf of bread (wrapped in plastic)

a packet of tea (inner coated in plastic)

a some chicken (wrapped in plastic)

 a bottle of milk (wrapped in plastic)

when I get to the checkout they ask me do I want a non plastic bag as 'it's good for the enviroment'. 

It's madness I agree. The govt however is choosing to not make the changes it could to avoid this as they don't want to upset the masses. Even the basic bottle recycling initiative was binned. 

[Weihrauch17]

4 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

Ain't that what most of do on this site 

No they don't and nor do they preach about people not caring for the environment whilst doing so .

Edited September 21, 2023 by Weihrauch17

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It's not my fantasy. I do believe its the way to go but getting there is another matter.

I want to go to the moon, but getting there is another matter...
It is , in fact , a fantasy.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

China's pollution is of course in part fuelled by our demand.

If China exported nothing, they could get to net zero too ?
More fantasy.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

but I am sure the EU will lead the way for us.

Oh dear....

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Even the basic bottle recycling initiative was binned. 

Actually its coming back , being trialled in Scotland first, and if successful , the rest of the UK.

[oowee]

13 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

If China exported nothing, they could get to net zero too ?
More fantasy.

Oh dear....

Actually its coming back , being trialled in Scotland first, and if successful , the rest of the UK.

China not exporting just means its bought elsewhere the problem remains.

I know it's hard to deal with the reality.

Lets take our lead from Scotland. 😁

[discobob]

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

Lets take our lead from Scotland.

Has she responded to your requests to be a pen pal yet Grant?? 🤣 or will that be only when she gets locked up (like that will happen in this day and age)......

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Not so easy to do for a small country but I am sure the EU will lead the way for us.

24 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Oh dear....

<Adenoidal voice> I think you'll find we've just fallen into line with the EU re ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles moving to 2035...

Ahem.

Some wag on 'X'/Twitter pointed out this morning that because of the Windsor framework, until yesterday's change in policy, we could've continued to buy new ICE vehicles in NI from 2030 until 2035.  How practical this would've been I don't know, but would've been a good boost for NI's tourism (come to Belfast, buy a car!)

Anyway, more seriously, I think its naive in the extreme to believe the EU are somehow better stewards of the environment than the UK.  They pulled back from ICE Sales bans following organised lobbying, the Germans are busy being the biggest CO2 emitters in Europe thanks to their nuts decision to bin nuclear, and they've even been convinced to slow down the transition to PFAS free refrigerants by a very organised HVAC lobby.

[Rewulf]

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

I know it's hard to deal with the reality.

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

China not exporting just means its bought elsewhere the problem remains.

Its not 'hard' , youve just stated the reality !
Net zero is a meaningless pipe dream , for here , for China, and everywhere else.
Like going to the moon to mine cheese, a fantasy.

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

Lets take our lead from Scotland. 😁

Its a Westminster plan , trialled in Scotland, the guinea pig of such trials , like smoking, sugar and alcohol taxes.
If the Scots will stand for it , so will the rest of the populace.

[oowee]

32 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

<Adenoidal voice> I think you'll find we've just fallen into line with the EU re ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles moving to 2035...

Ahem.

Some wag on 'X'/Twitter pointed out this morning that because of the Windsor framework, until yesterday's change in policy, we could've continued to buy new ICE vehicles in NI from 2030 until 2035.  How practical this would've been I don't know, but would've been a good boost for NI's tourism (come to Belfast, buy a car!)

Anyway, more seriously, I think its naive in the extreme to believe the EU are somehow better stewards of the environment than the UK.  They pulled back from ICE Sales bans following organised lobbying, the Germans are busy being the biggest CO2 emitters in Europe thanks to their nuts decision to bin nuclear, and they've even been convinced to slow down the transition to PFAS free refrigerants by a very organised HVAC lobby.

I read this morning that manufacturers will still be required to sell a fixed percentage of ev's even though the deadline date for ice has moved. How is that going to work? 

[Vince Green]

It is patently obvious that electric cars are not working. They don't have the range that's claimed for them.  Charging points are too few and far between.  That's if they are working. It can be a nightmare 

Sales are dropping as people wise up to the problems. It's very stressful trying to go anywhere other than local journeys.  Always wondering if there will be some where you can get re-charged when you get there.

 

 

[Rewulf]

 

[Rim Fire]

2 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

No they don't and nor do they preach about people not caring for the environment whilst doing so .

Nobody on about preaching but i bet most on here shoot just because the love shooting things i know i do 

[islandgun]

25 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

It is patently obvious that electric cars are not working. They don't have the range that's claimed for them.  Charging points are too few and far between.  That's if they are working. It can be a nightmare 

Sales are dropping as people wise up to the problems. It's very stressful trying to go anywhere other than local journeys.  Always wondering if there will be some where you can get re-charged when you get there.

 

 

If theres a problem with electric cars, imagine the queue at motorway services charging points if all lorries were electric.  farmers electric meters when all the tractors are plugged in, a casualty waiting for an ambulance to re-charge, long distance buses adding hours to a journey. theres a very long list of diesel users that keep the country running. how big a battery does an artic lorry need ?

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, islandgun said:

how big a battery does an artic lorry need ?

Around 3-4 tonnes worth of batteries, with a range of around 200-300 miles in ideal conditions , with multi point charging, around 10 hrs recharge time, with single point charging , times that by 5.
We simply dont have the lithium , or the charging infrastructure to make this work.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

If theres a problem with electric cars, imagine the queue at motorway services charging points if all lorries were electric.  farmers electric meters when all the tractors are plugged in, a casualty waiting for an ambulance to re-charge, long distance buses adding hours to a journey. theres a very long list of diesel users that keep the country running. how big a battery does an artic lorry need ?

In August my stepdaughter drove from her home in Sussex to visit us in Cornwall. She was in her brand new company Volvo EX30 electric SUV.

A journey that would usually take four and a half hours took her twelve hours with two stops. She was so stressed she had been in tears and she's not like that.

All the time she was in Cornwall she had a real struggle to find places to charge.

It was the constant thing on her mind when planning what to do each day . How far was it? Could she find a charge point when she got there? Would it be working? Would there be a queue ?

Queues, slow only charges, charge points not working. It didn't end when she left Cornwall either. She is still having problems and has told her employer the car is not working out. Other colleagues have said the same thing.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

the car is not working out.

My next door neighbours (both to the south and across the road) have EVs.  They work fine for them as they do short predictable local journeys and charge at home.  Both deliberately keep a petrol/diesel car for when they travel further afield as getting a charge to to hit and miss and time variable.

If you can afford two cars, or have very easily defined short journeys - all good (and fairly cheap to run if charged at home).  As an only car for thse who do travel further, no way would I buy EV at present.

[Rewulf]

I thought this was funny.
Humza Yusuf , the new SNP leader has decided Sunaks backtrack on 2030 net zero targets is 'unforgivable'

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-watering-down-climate-30988150

I thought the whole independent Scotland thing was going to be financed by err, oil and gas revenues ?

[Vince Green]

23 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

My next door neighbours (both to the south and across the road) have EVs.  They work fine for them as they do short predictable local journeys and charge at home.  Both deliberately keep a petrol/diesel car for when they travel further afield as getting a charge to to hit and miss and time variable.

If you can afford two cars, or have very easily defined short journeys - all good (and fairly cheap to run if charged at home).  As an only car for thse who do travel further, no way would I buy EV at present.

Electric cars that only go to Tesco and back once a week are not going to save the planet. No point in having one.

Having to keep a second car completely negates the argument for electric cars 

Having to worry about putting your lights,  heater, aircon  or wipers on in adverse driving conditions because you want to save your battery is going to lead to accidents .

And how long are those batteries REALLY going to last ?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

And how long are those batteries REALLY going to last ?

That I cannot answer, and I hear that they are (at present anyway) very difficult (costly, dangerous and environmentally damaging) to get recycled in any practical way.  

Personally, I can't see myself getting one unless things change dramatically.

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

And how long are those batteries REALLY going to last ?

 

Now Tesla batteries are allegedly the dogs danglies, with Tesla claiming 200,000 miles of use, and only losing 12 % of capacity.
Other EV batteries will not fare as well.

[Scully]

51 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

My next door neighbours (both to the south and across the road) have EVs.  They work fine for them as they do short predictable local journeys and charge at home.  Both deliberately keep a petrol/diesel car for when they travel further afield as getting a charge to to hit and miss and time variable.

If you can afford two cars, or have very easily defined short journeys - all good (and fairly cheap to run if charged at home).  As an only car for thse who do travel further, no way would I buy EV at present.

I’m not trying to divert the thread, but this reminded me of a new build in the next village. I pass it most days and outside are parked two of those Mondeo shaped Teslas, and right next to them a Ford Mustang! 
🤷‍♂️

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Scully said:

I’m not trying to divert the thread, but this reminded me of a new build in the next village. I pass it most days and outside are parked two of those Mondeo shaped Teslas, and right next to them a Ford Mustang! 
🤷‍♂️

Yes - even more strange contrasts in my case - and MG electric (Chinese) and an Aston Martin at one household!

(Tesla and a Mini at the other).

[Weihrauch17]

3 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

Nobody on about preaching but i bet most on here shoot just because the love shooting things i know i do 

Page 3 and you missed the point, it's not about people on here shooting but flying round the world doing it whilst accusing some people of not caring about the environment.  Oh and not answering Scully's question on the subject unless I missed the answer.

[islandgun]

 

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Around 3-4 tonnes worth of batteries, with a range of around 200-300 miles in ideal conditions , with multi point charging, around 10 hrs recharge time, with single point charging , times that by 5.
We simply dont have the lithium , or the charging infrastructure to make this work.

Just had a quick google and at the end of 2021 there were 5.5 million commercial vehicles on Britains roads, given an average weight of 3 tonne of batteries per vehicle thats over 15 million tons of batteries...hm... seems doable, wonder where in the world we can ship them from. wait I forgot, what size batteries do you need to power a ship.🥺

[Rewulf]

12 minutes ago, islandgun said:

 

Just had a quick google and at the end of 2021 there were 5.5 million commercial vehicles on Britains roads, given an average weight of 3 tonne of batteries per vehicle thats over 15 million tons of batteries...hm... seems doable, wonder where in the world we can ship them from. wait I forgot, what size batteries do you need to power a ship.🥺

Unfortunately theres only so much lithium left in the world.

The majority of lithium resources are found in brine deposits in salt flats, particularly in South America, as well as in hard rock deposits in countries such as Australia, Canada, and China. Estimates of total lithium reserves on Earth vary, but they are generally believed to be around 17-20 million metric tons.