Anxiety / depression

[Wombatfeatures]

Hi all

(I normally post under another name, but I set up a new one to post this question.)

I think I possibly suffer a bit from the above. Not mentioned it to the docs as such for fear of losing my certificates. (Though I did admit to feeling a bit depressed during COVID - this cropped up at my renewal but FEO was understanding and no problems - I never had any medication). My wife thinks I should go to the docs again and maybe get some medication and see if it helps. I'm not totally against the idea. I presume it would be wise to tell my FEO if I do so, and that he or she might then request I put my guns in storage? Though I might get some brownie points for mentioning it, rather than if the doctor tells them?

Be interested to hear anyone's experience of anxiety / depression and FAC / SGCs

Thanks.

 

WF

[Scully]

If you haven’t been diagnosed with either depression or anxiety, then there was no need to mention it to your FEO.  
See what your GP says regarding either and take it from there. 
Honesty is the best policy but I wouldn’t worry too much about your tickets currently; you won’t be the only firearms owner with issues, especially following the pandemic. 

[Red696]

As someone who has been diagnosed in the past I highly recommend you visit your doctor, ask about CBT as an alternative to medication.  Although I’m only a new SGC holder my previous issues have not been a barrier to being issued one.  They showed more interest in my Chemo…

 

Happy to talk if it helps

[Bigbob]

A bit ago i used to go out ferreting with a guy then he wanted to do more like me , He got a shotgun , then a rifle . Now this guy when you went for him was never up after knocking him up his wife would come down in her dressing gown to make him something to eat and i was muttering Oh for fluck sake . She said he has to take something to eat before he takes his tablets .He had chronic depression  Never stopped him did it for a few years them moved on to fishing 

[HantsRob]

Morning WF

I think it's really important to be careful of advice, especially anecdotal historical cases. It is also difficult if no-one is an FEO as it is at best just advice. I do wish you well, and avoiding treatment is not the cure. Mental ill health is so prevalent in society, and there is support and help available to you.

My personal opinion, take as you will....

Firstly, a diagnosed and treated illness should not preclude you from either a new grant or a continuance of a grant. No-one will know the severity based on "I have depression", it could just be the old fashioned 'I have blue days', through to 'the voices sometimes overwhelm me'. 
No gun is worth ill mental health. Go get treatment. If you feel the need then put your guns into storage and generate an audit trail of good reasoned behaviour. If you just feel low and anxious, it doesn't mean you're a risk to yourself from your guns. 
Do you have indicators of self harm? If not, the risk is even lower. However, if you do, then you need to speak to your GP, to a crisis team, to the samaritans or Mind. You can use the samaritans and MIND any time and it's not recordable. 

With regards to "protection", if on renewal your GP deems you to be under treatment and there is no risk to yourself and others, and if they say no risk or mitigated risk, then this shouldn't stop your renewal. But, you need to appreciate that your shooting life may end if the GP says you have a risk factor, and whilst that may seem wrong if shooting is one of the few things that grounds you, that you may have your licence revoked.

The best of luck.

This weblink may be of use for some advice:
https://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/articles/key-considerations-in-the-new-firearms-licensing-guidance

 

[The Mighty Prawn]

I’ve got a diagnosed anxiety disorder and on medication for it, told my FEO straight away and he was really supportive and happy that I’d followed good practice letting him know. The potential risk of losing guns was worth it for the diagnosis and the support I’ve had that has got me back to a good place

look after yourself first and your hobbies second is my opinion

[Wombatfeatures]

Hi folks

Thanks for the replies, offers of help and the PMs. Sorry for the delay in responding, I forgot my new login! 🤪

It's not too bad really, I can be anxious about various things, some silly some not, and have the odd blue / down day. No inclination to harm myself or others, and no voices. I didn't tell my FEO, it came from the doctor's report, but it wasn't a problem at that stage.

I think I'll go to my GP and see how things go from there. 

Thank you again. 

[Lloyd90]

7 hours ago, Wombatfeatures said:

Hi folks

Thanks for the replies, offers of help and the PMs. Sorry for the delay in responding, I forgot my new login! 🤪

It's not too bad really, I can be anxious about various things, some silly some not, and have the odd blue / down day. No inclination to harm myself or others, and no voices. I didn't tell my FEO, it came from the doctor's report, but it wasn't a problem at that stage.

I think I'll go to my GP and see how things go from there. 

Thank you again. 

What symptoms do you have? 
 

It’s sad that shooters are out off asking for help for fear that it might affect their licence. 
 

There will be many people in your position and I know people with anxiety and depression on their GP notes who hold tickets. 
 

Best of luck, speak to your GP and let your FEO know based off what they say. 

[Wombatfeatures]

Thanks Lloyd. PM sent

[team tractor]

Just seen this . 
I had a nasty divorce and was on antidepressants. Although I’d lost my guns due to a false allegation I soon had them back . 
now what depression can do hit me  last week . 
I was  walking with the kids picking up chestnuts . We came across a guy in the woods of my shoot . He’d just tried hanging himself . We sat and talked for an hour before I rang the police . The paramedics told us he had bruises around his neck . 
I burst into tears after he had gone . It destroyed me know I’d been in his position with depression too. 
 

get help please 

Edited October 20, 2023 by team tractor

[Agriv8]

This 

12 hours ago, team tractor said:

Just seen this . 
I had a nasty divorce and was on antidepressants. Although I’d lost my guns due to a false allegation I soon had them back . 
now what depression can do hit me  last week . 
I was  walking with the kids picking up chestnuts . We came across a guy in the woods of my shoot . He’d just tried hanging himself . We sat and talked for an hour before I rang the police . The paramedics told us he had bruises around his neck . 
I burst into tears after he had gone . It destroyed me know I’d been in his position with depression too. 
 

get help please 

and this

On 13/10/2023 at 15:03, The Mighty Prawn said:

I’ve got a diagnosed anxiety disorder and on medication for it, told my FEO straight away and he was really supportive and happy that I’d followed good practice letting him know. The potential risk of losing guns was worth it for the diagnosis and the support I’ve had that has got me back to a good place

look after yourself first and your hobbies second is my 

[HantsRob]

On 20/10/2023 at 21:03, team tractor said:

I burst into tears after he had gone . It destroyed me know I’d been in his position with depression too. 

There's no shame in that, and thankyou for helping reduce stigma and stereotype by feeling you can share that. 

Admitting a problem is genuinely the first step to getting help. I see a lot of horrid things with work, if you want to offload and need to talk to a stranger to offload, feel free to reach out. It's ok to not be ok. 

 

General advice to everyone:

Samaritans - 116 123 (language line 7pm-11pm - 0808 164 0123)
Suicide prevention helpline - 0800 689 5652 (6pm-midnight)
SHOUT - text based support for immediate crisis support - 85258
NHS - 111 and 999
MIND - 0300 123 3393 (9am-6pm, Monday to Friday)
 

Remember that you could call any of those if you are struggling supporting someone else, and consider resources like SANEline and other free resources.

[Wombatfeatures]

Thanks for the further comments and suggestions, all. 👍

Feeling a bit better at the mo - trying to look on the bright side, CBT etc. Also had some other health news (good eventually i hope, but inconvenient in the short term) which has taken my mind off it quite nicely, in fact! 

Keep your chin up. And again, i appreciate all the comments here. You're a good bunch. 🤗

[team tractor]

21 hours ago, Wombatfeatures said:

Thanks for the further comments and suggestions, all. 👍

Feeling a bit better at the mo - trying to look on the bright side, CBT etc. Also had some other health news (good eventually i hope, but inconvenient in the short term) which has taken my mind off it quite nicely, in fact! 

Keep your chin up. And again, i appreciate all the comments here. You're a good bunch. 🤗

Keep moving forward 

I watched this while drugged up on antidepressants as they couldn’t take me in to a mental health ward due to covid . I had a mental breakdown. My life was a total mess . This video actually made me sit up and think . It’s 100% correct . 
I hope it helps . 
 

[Wombatfeatures]

👍 Cheers.

[Tutton1702]

Man, I've been diagnosed in the past and I strongly suggest you to consider getting support from a doctor. I managed my stress with low nicotine vapes  spent more time with friends, got into a new work, but nothing helped much. 

[Gordon R]

The last post wouldn't be a bit of advertising, would it? No need to post a link. 

[Wombatfeatures]

Well, I put off going to the GP but tried various other things. Didn't help too much, and in the end my wife and I realised things weren't working very well between us and considered the D word. Trying to avoid it, but it has to be considered as a possibility. 

I felt extra low, and eventually called the GP yesterday. He prescribed some sleeping pills and things, and was fairly helpful. I contacted firearms licensing and let them know the situation honestly, and assumed they probably wouldn't do too much given the low levels of anxiety and depression. They confiscated my guns and certificates yesterday evening. 

I can see why to be fair, wish I'd gone to the GP sooner. So the moral of the story is, don't put things off until they get too serious. 

Not really sure what happens now, I was supposed to get an email with pics of the guns, details and what happens next. I've received nothing, of course. Annoying as I'd already provisionally sold one of the guns. I believe I can arrange an RFD to collect and sell the guns for me as they're still my guns? Not sure it would be worth it, alas.

Oh well, whatever will be will be. Onwards and upwards. 

[ehb102]

Thank you for posting again, @Wombatfeatures. It's really important that we keep talking about mental health, and I really appreciate you being honest with everyone here. It's the kind of sharing that may well be the example that leads someone to seek help themselves and in turn saves a life. So I'm sorry about the loss of your guns, I hope you get them back, but the community owes you gratitude for showing us what a really responsible gun owner does. 

[Wombatfeatures]

Thanks EHB, I appreciate the kind words. It does feel a bit like I made a difficult decision, did the right thing, and they kicked me when I was down. Oh well. 

[London Best]

What you should have done was get rid of the guns first, be it sale or storage, and then surrendered your licence. Much easier to obtain another licence than after one has been revoked.

[Sweet11-87]

this whole thread should be a case study for police firearms departments, BASC, and all shooters.

they reckon 17% of the uk population has mental health issues in some capacity so it stands to reason maybe 1 in every 5 or so shooters has something going on.

this poor lad has actively created a 2nd account and delayed speaking about it out of fear of losing his guns. If you shoot its a hobby, a social avenue, its to decompress and unwind, somthing to look forward too and something allot of money, effort and time has been poured into. In hard times the risk of being denied this can make a situation for and individual much worse and so it gets buried until it becomes a much bigger potentially dangerous issue.

id go as far as to say the current format that mental health and firearms plays is actually more dangerous to the individual and the general public. the current SOP seems to be any sign get them seized and strike that name of the ever again list.

As firearms holders we should be in a position where we are the very last people to be hesitant about speaking about our mental health really

Edited September 25 by Sweet11-87

[HantsRob]

4 hours ago, Wombatfeatures said:

Thanks EHB, I appreciate the kind words. It does feel a bit like I made a difficult decision, did the right thing, and they kicked me when I was down. Oh well. 

This is probably going to not sit well with you....

When something negative happens to you, it can feel like the worst feeling and victimisation. Worse still if your MH is suffering, or you are low, it feels like the world is against you. This feels like you're being kicked whilst you're down.

From an external point of view, many reading this will be thinking that the removal of guns is good safeguarding, to prevent a repeat of Plymouth, or self harm. I strongly believe the Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't in that situation. They are not medical and based on your words they are reducing/removing risk. I don't think they kicked you when you were down, I think they are safeguarding in the easiest way possible.

 

Now, I will mirror most of the sentiments of Sweet, that shooting could actually be your medicine, your safe place, and how you relax and fight your demons. But I do refer back to the Police not being medical. I have no idea if they contacted your GP to see if there was a risk, but I am sure the revocation will be on advice of the FMO. I do feel for you, and I really applaud you for getting help. THAT is your priority, and I really hope the new medicines and support will help get you back on your feet. Regardless of how selfish it felt to have your guns removed, your main priority is your health. 

I hope the incident doesn't make your mental health slip lower. Get well soon.

1 hour ago, Sweet11-87 said:

As firearms holders we should be in a position where we are the very last people to be hesitant about speaking about our mental health really

As firearms holders, we should also be in a position where if we believe our hobby is at risk, that we should consider how others perceive a risk. 
If I feel I need professional help, I would get my guns stored elsewhere for starters, and also consider a voluntary surrender. I appreciate my MH may not think that way. But we should consider the likelihood of consequence.

Ultimately, personal mental health and public safety should always be prioritised over an individuals desire to own firearms.

[Sweet11-87]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

As firearms holders, we should also be in a position where if we believe our hobby is at risk, that we should consider how others perceive a risk. 
If I feel I need professional help, I would get my guns stored elsewhere for starters, and also consider a voluntary surrender. I appreciate my MH may not think that way. But we should consider the likelihood of consequence.

Ultimately, personal mental health and public safety should always be prioritised over an individuals desire to own firearms.

while i do agree with some of what you say, am i must admit ive never had to "face any demons"so i have no personal eexperience bar my own opinion on the matter. my argument is that as soon as someone has acknowledge they are struggling and seek help you really are in the hands of those with butter fingers.

the spectrum for mental health is broad but its basically a blanket zero tolerance policy from what ive read and what ive witnessed in my shooting community and it will make people stall or delay in the hopes it will sort itself out.

you are right though the powers in charge arnt medical but they liaise when you apply for a grant. why cant they liaise when they have concerns. yes the police are damned if they do damned if they dont but this is another reason im strongly in favor of a nationwide governing body who work in tandem with police to manage licensing who are full time, funded, organized and dedicated so its not all eyes on the police again.

im very much pro police but its been said 1000s of times on here, in shooting media, by basc and by the police themselves in some places they are failing with the licensing system  in all regards at current and it is very much in their best interest today to heavy handedly seize firearms. as it is a more favorable light than a failure to act and tragedy however remote the possibility. i get why but its still a poor fix

Edited September 25 by Sweet11-87

[HantsRob]

2 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

while i do agree with some of what you say, am i must admit ive never had to "face any demons"so i have no personal eexperience bar my own opinion on the matter. my argument is that as soon as someone has acknowledge they are struggling and seek help you really are in the hands of those with butter fingers.

the spectrum for mental health is broad but its basically a blanket zero tolerance policy from what ive read and what ive witnessed in my shooting community and it will make people stall or delay in the hopes it will sort itself out.

I have professionally managed people who have had fairly serious mental health issues, and whilst generally their bad days are not life threatening, I can only say from experience that there's often a tipping point where they just want the pain to end. Not every health condition is the same, but a distorted reality or a desire for pain to end could mean tragedy of a horrific proportion. Likewise, I stand by my point that shooting could be someone's methadone. 

Completely objective, would I want someone who has a possibility to harm themselves or others to have access to firearms? Part of the seizure is to allow a slow time followup with medical experts, it is not a punishment but it is swift and is genuinely safeguarding. Should it be zero tollerance? That is a good debate, however always going to the weakest link, it probably makes sense to have it that way.

I agree it will make people delay getting help, either to hide it or hope it goes away. But, I stand by my point that owning guns is a privilege, and those deciding to hide it and potentially gets worse can ultimately only hurt the shooting community as a whole. I have so much compassion for the OP and they are so brave for sharing their journey, but at what point do we protect the sport rather than an individual? There's no right answer as a blanket answer.

Good reasonable debate.