Boris Johnson GB news

[JohnfromUK]

10 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The true left that’s been hiding away is about to reveal itself.

As John MacDonnell said quite recently when asked about the very muted tax and spending plans (so far revealed by Starmer and Reeves); "Kier will win the election and get Labour into power, and then the democratic party will ensure he carries out the policies determined by the and voted for by the membership not the leadership"  (and what he didn't mention is that the 'membership votes' includes the Union block votes - it's the left's interpretation of democracy)

[oowee]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

Agree with most of this, although it was Threason disMay that sold out Northern Ireland.

He was still better than the others on offer, who would you have at at the time, Jeremy Corbun?

No those that voted Brexit sold out NI. Despite the lies told it was obvious that Brexit ran counter to earlier agreements. 

See earlier post. There are plenty on the ballot. Only sheep vote for the same each time. It may be a wasted vote due to the number of sheep but sooner or later the message will get through. 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

No those that voted Brexit sold out NI. Despite the lies told it was obvious that Brexit ran counter to earlier agreements. 

See earlier post. There are plenty on the ballot. Only sheep vote for the same each time. It may be a wasted vote due to the number of sheep but sooner or later the message will get through. 

What on earth are you talking about, NI is part of the UK, Theresa May signed an agreement after brexit to keep NI aligned with the EU. 

But then those who backed remain seizing power to 'deliver' brexit was never going to be a real brexit and the torys never wanted it, never mind the country voted for it. We'll never know what the UK could have achieved or how great things could be now, if a true brexiteer had led the country after the referendum and that's all the remaniacs fault, that type of person could never accept a democratic vote they didn't agree with.

[oowee]

52 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

What on earth are you talking about, NI is part of the UK, Theresa May signed an agreement after brexit to keep NI aligned with the EU. 

But then those who backed remain seizing power to 'deliver' brexit was never going to be a real brexit and the torys never wanted it, never mind the country voted for it. We'll never know what the UK could have achieved or how great things could be now, if a true brexiteer had led the country after the referendum and that's all the remaniacs fault, that type of person could never accept a democratic vote they didn't agree with.

Hopefully we will get another vote.

[amateur]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Hopefully we will get another vote.

Hopefully, in your dreams

[Penelope]

On 28/10/2023 at 10:06, Mungler said:

If he had stuck with Cummings and learnt how to say know to his truly awful Mrs every once in a while, things would be very different right now.

I think he’s a great showman and I’ll watch the programme, but he will go down in history as squandering the biggest Tory majority and for the total nonsense fiasco that was covid.

Indeed, the covid enquiry (whitewash that it is) is showing us that right at the beginning, Boris and Co wanted to ‘go Sweden’ but it looks like that tool Ferguson and the dreadful net zero Carrie preferred the pointless, expensive and far more destructive authoritarian lockdown route. 

Yep, in one.

Noy known as Princess Nut Nut for nothing.

On 28/10/2023 at 15:00, Mungler said:

We’re becoming like the states where there is no choice; picking the lesser idiot.

I’m currently watching the Labour Party tear itself apart over a situation in another country far away, but where they can’t ignore their Islamic voters. 

The true left that’s been hiding away is about to reveal itself.

 

I did see that in a recent poll, 74% of Muslims would not vote Liebour over Starmer's support of Israel.

Burnham and Khan maneuvering. 

[cash1]

On 28/10/2023 at 09:21, old man said:

Don't they all, attributable to the lack of spine maybe?

Agreed, but I expected more from him Doris, he promised British values, truth and honour then flipped. We elected our first ever, I think, conservative MP and she too promptly stuffed her nose into the trough and disappeared. I worry for the young'uns they are sleep walking into a nightmare.

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, cash1 said:

Agreed, but I expected more from him Doris, he promised British values, truth and honour then flipped.

Lesson. 

Politicians (well nearly all politicians) make promises to gain votes.  A few may intend to keep them (if and) when elected.  The majority (if and when elected) then start looking for what trough they can find to put their noses in, how much they can claim in expenses, who will pay them for lobbying, consultancy, who will offer them tickets to the races, sports matches etc.

Johnson was very good about making 'attractive sounding' promises.  He's a good speaker (something he shares with Farage), quick and funny in debates.  He doesn't let facts interfere with a good story.  promise now and deal with what you may have said 'to win' later when you are the winner.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Pinocchio 2023 🤔😁

[12gauge82]

26 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Lesson. 

Politicians (well nearly all politicians) make promises to gain votes.  A few may intend to keep them (if and) when elected.  The majority (if and when elected) then start looking for what trough they can find to put their noses in, how much they can claim in expenses, who will pay them for lobbying, consultancy, who will offer them tickets to the races, sports matches etc.

Johnson was very good about making 'attractive sounding' promises.  He's a good speaker (something he shares with Farage), quick and funny in debates.  He doesn't let facts interfere with a good story.  promise now and deal with what you may have said 'to win' later when you are the winner.

Which is why it's time to ditch the tories and any other mainstream party.

They need to learn that they need to deliver, or disappear, they can't keep lieing their way into power.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

Which is why it's time to ditch the tories and any other mainstream party.

They need to learn that they need to deliver, or disappear, they can't keep lieing their way into power.

There are 3 outcomes (my opinions) for the result of the next election that are the only credible outcomes;

1. A Labour majority.  Currently the most likely outcome based on opinion polls.
2. A Labour led minority, propped up by SNP, Green and (maybe Lib Dems).  Now relatively unlikely due to collapse of the SNP.  Every minority/coalition/'pact' grouping of recent (post war) years has really been nothing but a 'placeholder' for the next general election.
3. Tory majority.  Currently pretty unlikely based on opinion polls

Other 'possibles' that are really not credible would be;

1. Tory minority propped up by DUP and others.  Very unlikely as DUP (and Lib Dems) are 'once burned twice shy' and any others Green, SNP, Reform, Independents are either too far away politically (SNP, Green and Independents), or won't win many/any seats (Reform) - remember despite a lot of support and winning European seats in considerable numbers, UKIP never won a Westminster seat.
2. Lib Dem led minority.  Even in a total Tory collapse, they would never get enough seats to beat Labour to biggest party.

[Lloyd90]

On 28/10/2023 at 13:00, Rem260 said:

Are you saying it would have been so much better under Corbyn?

Jesus Christ give it a rest!! 
 

No one has mentioned at all “it would have been better under Corbyn” but you can’t keep spouting that nonsense to justify the absolutely appalling leadership / Government we have had. 

[Rem260]

16 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Jesus Christ give it a rest!! 
 

No one has mentioned at all “it would have been better under Corbyn” but you can’t keep spouting that nonsense to justify the absolutely appalling leadership / Government we have had. 

You can't keep blaming one with out having an alternative and that alternative was Corbyn. Unless you think the Lib Dems where in the running.

[Lloyd90]

28 minutes ago, Rem260 said:

You can't keep blaming one with out having an alternative and that alternative was Corbyn. Unless you think the Lib Dems were in the running.

You can be disappointed with your teams performance without having to switch to supporting another team. 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

There are 3 outcomes (my opinions) for the result of the next election that are the only credible outcomes;

1. A Labour majority.  Currently the most likely outcome based on opinion polls.
2. A Labour led minority, propped up by SNP, Green and (maybe Lib Dems).  Now relatively unlikely due to collapse of the SNP.  Every minority/coalition/'pact' grouping of recent (post war) years has really been nothing but a 'placeholder' for the next general election.
3. Tory majority.  Currently pretty unlikely based on opinion polls

Other 'possibles' that are really not credible would be;

1. Tory minority propped up by DUP and others.  Very unlikely as DUP (and Lib Dems) are 'once burned twice shy' and any others Green, SNP, Reform, Independents are either too far away politically (SNP, Green and Independents), or won't win many/any seats (Reform) - remember despite a lot of support and winning European seats in considerable numbers, UKIP never won a Westminster seat.
2. Lib Dem led minority.  Even in a total Tory collapse, they would never get enough seats to beat Labour to biggest party.

While that is correct, the only reason we got a EU referendum was because the Conservatives knew if they didn't, UKIP would start making real gains. I'm so fed up with our Politicians that I don't really care if Labour/lib dems/hell, even the greens get in, as long as a party like reform ect start eventually making gains. Its the only way our Politicians and political parties will ever sit up and take notice of the voter.

Look at it from a different angle, a vote for any major political party is nothing more than a vote for the status quo and I can't think of anything worse than that.

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

While that is correct, the only reason we got a EU referendum was because the Conservatives knew if they didn't, UKIP would start making real gains.

I agree, though whether UKIP would have made gains in seats if questionable.  They would certainly have made gains in votes, and to the detriment of both main parties.

I would also add that UKIP/Farage offering a 'no contest' in many Tory seats undoubtedly helped Johnson. 

In my view, Labour are likely to win the next election.  There is always eventually a change to Labour (just as Blair came in after Thatcher/Major) when the Tories begin to loose credibility.  Then back to Tory again when people see how frying pans are better than fires.

If Reform oppose many (formerly considered safe) Tory seats, it will give Starmer a (possibly much) bigger majority.  Again in my view, Starmer himself is dull and likely to actually 'do' very little other than allow things to bumble along and allow the Unions freedom to stoke up inflation, be soft on immigration and cosy up to Europe.  However, the Labour left are waiting (relatively quietly) for their moment .......... and I think will try to force Starmer leftwards or replace him.

[Yellow Bear]

24 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

the Labour left are waiting (relatively quietly) for their moment .......... and I think will try to force Starmer leftwards or replace him.

Exactly this!

[JohnfromUK]

14 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Exactly this!

One of Labour's differences from the Tories is the way they determine party policy.  From their website "Policy is developed through the National Policy Forum (NPF). This is a body of around 200 representatives from all the major groups of the Labour Party, from constituency parties and regions to affiliated trade unions, socialist societies, MPs and councillors."  In other words, not the leader.

The Tories are a bit different.  From their website "The Leader shall determine the political direction of the Party having regard to the views of Party
Members and the Conservative Policy Forum."  In other words, the leader decides after 'listening to others'.

[discobob]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

it will give Starmer a (possibly much) bigger majority

Not if the voters in England cast their eyes over to Wales and see the state of it there!!!!

[Penelope]

45 minutes ago, discobob said:

Not if the voters in England cast their eyes over to Wales and see the state of it there!!!!

Sadly they won't and will.

[udderlyoffroad]

Another thread that’s deviated down the ‘democracy is about choosing the least worst option’ path.  I’m not convinced Labour has it in the bag, or at least not a majority.  Most likely a coalition hell-scape.  To me, Starmer apparently just doesn’t want middle England’s votes:

• Build over the green belt
• ‘Throw everything’ at Net Zero
• Can’t define a woman (although he might’ve mellowed on that and let Ed Davey take prize position).
• Kneels for BLM
• Still convinced we should’ve locked down faster and harder
• Wants to Abolish non-dom status

As others have pointed out, basically don’t vote for any of the mainstream parties.

Anyway; back on topic.  Yep, Johnson, what a disappointment.  A civil-liberties-crushing, ‘furlough’-billions-sploodging, Brexit-opportunities-squandering disappointment.  About as conservative as Owen Jones.  Pretty sure he’ll make for compelling TV though.  Still won’t be watching.

[Penelope]

55 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Another thread that’s deviated down the ‘democracy is about choosing the least worst option’ path.  I’m not convinced Labour has it in the bag, or at least not a majority.  Most likely a coalition hell-scape.  To me, Starmer apparently just doesn’t want middle England’s votes:

• Build over the green belt
• ‘Throw everything’ at Net Zero
• Can’t define a woman (although he might’ve mellowed on that and let Ed Davey take prize position).
• Kneels for BLM
• Still convinced we should’ve locked down faster and harder
• Wants to Abolish non-dom status

As others have pointed out, basically don’t vote for any of the mainstream parties.

Anyway; back on topic.  Yep, Johnson, what a disappointment.  A civil-liberties-crushing, ‘furlough’-billions-sploodging, Brexit-opportunities-squandering disappointment.  About as conservative as Owen Jones.  Pretty sure he’ll make for compelling TV though.  Still won’t be watching.

There is the Muslim vote to consider, given that a recent poll says that 71% of Muslims polled will not now vote labour given Starmer's comments over Israel.

At 19:57

 

[old man]

6 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

There are 3 outcomes (my opinions) for the result of the next election that are the only credible outcomes;

1. A Labour majority.  Currently the most likely outcome based on opinion polls.
2. A Labour led minority, propped up by SNP, Green and (maybe Lib Dems).  Now relatively unlikely due to collapse of the SNP.  Every minority/coalition/'pact' grouping of recent (post war) years has really been nothing but a 'placeholder' for the next general election.
3. Tory majority.  Currently pretty unlikely based on opinion polls

Other 'possibles' that are really not credible would be;

1. Tory minority propped up by DUP and others.  Very unlikely as DUP (and Lib Dems) are 'once burned twice shy' and any others Green, SNP, Reform, Independents are either too far away politically (SNP, Green and Independents), or won't win many/any seats (Reform) - remember despite a lot of support and winning European seats in considerable numbers, UKIP never won a Westminster seat.
2. Lib Dem led minority.  Even in a total Tory collapse, they would never get enough seats to beat Labour to biggest party.

Mm, I'm looking for a rubber boat As no matter what combination, we are well and truly cattle trucked?

[discobob]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

There is the Muslim vote to consider, given that a recent poll says that 71% of Muslims polled will not now vote labour given Starmer's comments over Israel.

At 19:57

 

Apparently there has been a muslim political party set up - one step closer to having hands chopped off!!

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I agree, though whether UKIP would have made gains in seats if questionable.  They would certainly have made gains in votes, and to the detriment of both main parties.

I would also add that UKIP/Farage offering a 'no contest' in many Tory seats undoubtedly helped Johnson. 

In my view, Labour are likely to win the next election.  There is always eventually a change to Labour (just as Blair came in after Thatcher/Major) when the Tories begin to loose credibility.  Then back to Tory again when people see how frying pans are better than fires.

If Reform oppose many (formerly considered safe) Tory seats, it will give Starmer a (possibly much) bigger majority.  Again in my view, Starmer himself is dull and likely to actually 'do' very little other than allow things to bumble along and allow the Unions freedom to stoke up inflation, be soft on immigration and cosy up to Europe.  However, the Labour left are waiting (relatively quietly) for their moment .......... and I think will try to force Starmer leftwards or replace him.

While I don't disagree with anything you say, it makes me even more sure not voting for any major party the right thing to do. If we vote main stream we'll ping pong between Conservatives and labour forever more, with neither side delivering what the majority of the country want. The only way out of that cycle is to vote someone else, it might cause short term pain, but better that than the countrys political system continuing to take the **** out of the voter for ever more, with us the people voting for it.

Just now, discobob said:

Apparently there has been a muslim political party set up - one step closer to having hands chopped off!!

At this rate, it'll be the french trying to stop rubber boats from the UK showing up on their shores 😂😂😂