19 year old shot at a clay range

[Scully]

16 minutes ago, GHE said:

 

Here's an example of unsafe gun handling from someone who should have known better . . .

 

You’re quite right of course, but his generation were of the doctrine that you carried an empty shotgun in this manner between drives; I know of some who still do, including the ‘keeper of our syndicate who is only a couple of years older than me. 
The only snag is, who knows it is empty? More than once I’ve said to our ‘keeper ‘if you’re sure it’s empty point it at your foot and pull the trigger’. Never once has he obliged. 
Weird eh? 

[Agriv8]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

You’re quite right of course, but his generation were of the doctrine that you carried an empty shotgun in this manner between drives; I know of some who still do, including the ‘keeper of our syndicate who is only a couple of years older than me. 
The only snag is, who knows it is empty? More than once I’ve said to our ‘keeper ‘if you’re sure it’s empty point it at your foot and pull the trigger’. Never once has he obliged. 
Weird eh? 

Scully yep seen it and I come from a generation where shooting grouse between beaters on the line  was ok provided you did not pepper any of them -yes  I was one of the beaters .  

 this post is about a clay ground I happily have the luxury of participating in both disciplines ( not grouse shooting ) a closed gun should never be pointed at anyone regardless of clay or game .

Fingers  crossed the 19 year old gets over her injury!

Agriv8

[manthing]

One doesn't like to speculate and I wish as full a recovery as possible to the injured women.

If they were in a competitive setup wewr the on a dtl or skeet type setup and someone loaded their gun early. That's the only reason I can think where 2 shooters would be on the shooting line together.

[Poor Shot]

24 minutes ago, manthing said:

One doesn't like to speculate and I wish as full a recovery as possible to the injured women.

If they were in a competitive setup wewr the on a dtl or skeet type setup and someone loaded their gun early. That's the only reason I can think where 2 shooters would be on the shooting line together.

It's not uncommon in registered sporting or FITASC events for the squad to be in the immediate vicinity of the stand or hoop. Especially where friends are shooting together and offering some coaching to or ribbing the shooter in the stand.

Shooting from a hoop enables the shooter to point the gun anywhere. It's up to the shooter, course setter, ref and bystanders themselves to ensure that they are acting safely in that environment.

It's not too hard to imagine a situation like where a person has taken a single shot at a no bird simmo pair, lowered the unbroken gun with one shot remaining, turned to acknowledge the ref and created an unsafe situation.

That's not speculation on this particular case but it can and does happen to even the best of them.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Poor Shot

[12gauge82]

11 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

I agree ghe and if that gun was on our shoot I would ask the gun to be broken regardless of if it’s loaded or the the excuse of being the queens husband. But at least the gun is pointing to the ground and yes the older generation are in the “well I haven’t shot anybody yet ! “  but the accident here was at a clay ground no excuses . 
 

another way of putting it is safety in clay shooting and out In the field requires us all to follow basic safety rules these accidents are few and far between but if we ignore the basics of gun safety those risks become unacceptable. In the case a 19 year old has been shot by a fellow shooter in a situation that should not have been allowed.

We all have a duty to ensure these incidents are very rare accidents!

Agriv8

 

 

Why require a gun is broken? It's no different to a semi or a pump in that without dismantling them, they can't be broken.

[Bobba]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Why require a gun is broken? It's no different to a semi or a pump in that without dismantling them, they can't be broken.

To show beyond doubt that the gun is not loaded. Semi’s or pumps should have an orange safety breach plug / flag in place which has the same effect.

[Agriv8]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

Why require a gun is broken? It's no different to a semi or a pump in that without dismantling them, they can't be broken.

Mentioned in an earlier post over and under or side by side broken semi auto bolt drawn back preferably with a flag in but pointed to the sky if we shoot our semi autos we tend to make a point of getting one of the other guns in the group to check bolt is drawn or flag in before leaving the cage !

Agriv8

[12gauge82]

30 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

Mentioned in an earlier post over and under or side by side broken semi auto bolt drawn back preferably with a flag in but pointed to the sky if we shoot our semi autos we tend to make a point of getting one of the other guns in the group to check bolt is drawn or flag in before leaving the cage !

Agriv8

On second thoughts that sounds sensible to me, nothing wrong with being as safe as possible and why not use the advantages of a break open shotgun to enhance safety, I suppose the more actions taken to avoid an accident, the more mistakes would need to be made to make an accident happen. It does raise the question in my head are semi autos and pumps more dangerous than side x sides and over & under.

 

[sportsbob]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 It does raise the question in my head are semi autos and pumps more dangerous than side x sides and over & under.

 

My answer is no, commonly shooters fight to get their gun out of a slip waving it around closed in all directions before managing to open it. The instant a semi auto or pump action is removed from a slip everyone can see the gun is safe provided the owner has used a breech flag.

Edited December 9, 2023 by sportsbob

[GHE]

25 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

My answer is no, commonly shooters fight to get their gun out of a slip waving it around closed in all directions before managing to open it. The instant a semi auto or pump action is removed from a slip everyone can see the gun is safe provided the owner has used a breech flag.

But, as we all know, that should never happen, there's no excuse for it. The correct procedure is to operate the catch, pull the gun out of the slip and open it fully at the same time, demonstrating that it's safe, and to reverse the procedure when replacing it in the slip.

No gun should ever be open at any time, except when pointed towards the target. It's difficult to see how any accident can occur if this rule is followed, and difficult to see how a true accident can occur when a gun goes off when not pointed at the target - there's a big difference between an accident and negligence.

Accidents can happen, negligence is caused.

[sportsbob]

3 minutes ago, GHE said:

But, as we all know, that should never happen, there's no excuse for it. The correct procedure is to operate the catch, pull the gun out of the slip and open it fully at the same time, demonstrating that it's safe, and to reverse the procedure when replacing it in the slip.

No gun should ever be open at any time, except when pointed towards the target. It's difficult to see how any accident can occur if this rule is followed, and difficult to see how a true accident can occur when a gun goes off when not pointed at the target - there's a big difference between an accident and negligence.

Accidents can happen, negligence is caused.

I don't disagree however that is not what many clay shooters do, I carry my semi via a sling over my shoulder and a breech plug fitted this way everyone can always see it is safe. If you carry a double open over your arm everyone can see it is safe, if a gun is a slip no one knows if it is safe or not and poor discipline adds fuel to the fire.

[Agriv8]

As a sport clay shooting if we stick to several simple and basic safety rules we can minimise the risks and to be fair I think most shooters do as these accidents are few and far between!

1) guns should never be pointed at anything you don’t intend to shoot 

2) guns should be made safe ( broken or bolt drawn back ) while pointing in a safe direction 

3) ammunition is only loaded at the point you are ready to shoot 

4) safety catch of after final preparation and you are about to shout pull

The first gun I shot was my dad’s bolt action mosberg it was drilled into me that the bolt was removed when not in use and it was carried at all times barrel vertical ! I was about 12/13 I think

I was brought up shooting on keepers days at the end of the season 

if we all follow safety first we can keep horrible incidents like this to nearly 0

Agriv8

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Gordon Bennett, why all the conjecture, a poor woman has been shot at a clay ground.

 

We know very little else and far too many of you are guessing at what happened.

[Agriv8]

5 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

I don't disagree however that is not what many clay shooters do, I carry my semi via a sling over my shoulder and a breech plug fitted this way everyone can always see it is safe. If you carry a double open over your arm everyone can see it is safe, if a gun is a slip no one knows if it is safe or not and poor discipline adds fuel to the fire.

I will only slip a gun at a clay ground if it is very cold or they don’t have gun stands to allow me to warm hands for trigger and  safety catch .

Agriv8

[Agriv8]

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Gordon Bennett, why all the conjecture, a poor woman has been shot at a clay ground.

 

We know very little else and far too many of you are guessing at what happened.

You are right tightchoke - the topic has morphed into basic gun safety at clay grounds! 

Gordon Bennett has been called 

 

[GREENGRASS]

Hopefully she makes a full recovery pysically and mentally after a traumatic incident.

I would imagine a full investigation will be in process by the authorities to find out the cause of the neglegant discharge of the shotgun, no doubbt someone will be held accountable due to the severity of injuries to victim.

GG 😔

[Westley]

It is the repercussions that worry me  !

[Agriv8]

6 minutes ago, Westley said:

It is the repercussions that worry me  !

All most definitely after a kangaroo court  trial by the press and those with there own skewed agenda! 

[Rim Fire]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Gordon Bennett, why all the conjecture, a poor woman has been shot at a clay ground.

 

We know very little else and far too many of you are guessing at what happened.

Tc that's the case with most threads take the Nicola Bulley case she drowned swept out to see ran off abducted  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just VERY disappointing and totally unnecessary.

 

 

Commiserations by all means, but trying to GUESS what happens is inappropriate.

[Wymondley]

19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Commiserations by all means, but trying to GUESS what happens is inappropriate.

Well said.

Lets not forget that this type of incident is very rare.

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, sportsbob said:

I don't disagree however that is not what many clay shooters do, I carry my semi via a sling over my shoulder and a breech plug fitted this way everyone can always see it is safe. If you carry a double open over your arm everyone can see it is safe, if a gun is a slip no one knows if it is safe or not and poor discipline adds fuel to the fire.

Does that actually improve safety? The gun is either safe or it's not, showing others it's safe .might make them feel better but if you left a gun loaded, it's still loaded. For instance, a gun in a slip could still be loaded and inadvertently fired, by your reasoning a semi with a breach flag outside of a slip would be safer still?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And on it goes.   

[sportsbob]

46 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Does that actually improve safety? The gun is either safe or it's not, showing others it's safe .might make them feel better but if you left a gun loaded, it's still loaded. For instance, a gun in a slip could still be loaded and inadvertently fired, by your reasoning a semi with a breach flag outside of a slip would be safer still?

Yes it would because with a plug the bolt can not be released into battery without firstly removing the plug.

 

Anyhow this accident happened not because the gun was not safe, it happened because a shooter had poor safety discipline.

Edited December 9, 2023 by sportsbob

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

Yes it would because with a plug the bolt can not be released into battery without firstly removing the plug.

 

Anyhow this accident happened not because the gun was not safe, it happened because a shooter had poor safety discipline.

Im of the firm belief that gun safety comes from a system of safe practice which doesn't need slips, broken guns or breach plugs/flags.

That said, I also see nothing wrong with any extra steps someone feels they need providing it doesn't harm safety. I also understand why when shooting in teams everyone follows the same safe system whatever it is.