flippermaj Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Not sure how I haven’t come across this before but for all the doubters of steel it is definitely worth watching. Admittedly Tom is a very very good shot but that does not alter the fact on the ability of the cartridges at ranges I would not shoot at. interesting that they are not worried about using full choke either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m greeny Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Watched it a few times now and it's very informative and steel has come a long way. It just goes to show steel kills very well its normally the person pulling the trigger that's at fault but it's easier for them to blame the cartridge rather than admit to there own flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 That videos from 1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Made 44 years ago , but so many doubters still in this country . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 if people keep saying there is nothing wrong with steel shot wait till someone is killed with it by accident where if it was lead shot they may not have been killed as lead deforms steel does not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 (edited) 36 minutes ago, holloway said: Made 44 years ago , but so many doubters still in this country . I have zero doubts about the ability of steel to kill. I just don’t really want to risk it killing a 94 year old lightweight best gun. I have used steel to kill duck and geese for 25 years, and I have tried it through my H&H with no ill effects, but RFD friends keep telling me they see scored barrels on a regular basis. Edited January 17 by London Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 55 minutes ago, dipper said: That videos from 1980 And also where the allowed pressure means that the cartridges used would not be permitted under the CIP Rules that apply in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 (edited) 52 minutes ago, London Best said: I have zero doubts about the ability of steel to kill. I just don’t really want to risk it killing a 94 year old lightweight best gun. I have used steel to kill duck and geese for 25 years, and I have tried it through my H&H with no ill effects, but RFD friends keep telling me they see scored barrels on a regular basis. Sadly quite a few rfd s wouldn't have a clue what a scored barrel looks like but if they say say so it must be true 👍 Edited January 17 by holloway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 38 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: And also where the allowed pressure means that the cartridges used would not be permitted under the CIP Rules that apply in the UK. That’s the real difference. No comparison if you can’t buy carts with the same speed etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 21 hours ago, scarecrow243 said: if people keep saying there is nothing wrong with steel shot wait till someone is killed with it by accident where if it was lead shot they may not have been killed as lead deforms steel does not Eh?🤔 21 hours ago, London Best said: …….RFD friends keep telling me they see scored barrels on a regular basis. Isn’t that down to wad failure? Steel can and will score the barrels of even a HP steel shot proofed gun if the wad fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 steel does not deform like lead as you know at a pheasant shoot one of the beaters was hit in the face with lead shot he was wearing glasses some pellets were in his face can you think of what would have happened if it was steel shot ps the shooter was kicked out of the shoot for shooting below the tree height Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 22 hours ago, flippermaj said: Not sure how I haven’t come across this before but for all the doubters of steel it is definitely worth watching. Admittedly Tom is a very very good shot but that does not alter the fact on the ability of the cartridges at ranges I would not shoot at. interesting that they are not worried about using full choke either I too have watched it before a good while ago. Thanks for reminding me of it. My kids are going to be disappointed with the TV tonight if they come and sit down next to me on the sofa.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 (edited) 21 hours ago, scarecrow243 said: if people keep saying there is nothing wrong with steel shot wait till someone is killed with it by accident where if it was lead shot they may not have been killed as lead deforms steel does not but like for like shot size wise lead is more lethal than steel. thats kind of the main issue people have with it. im really perplexed by your take on this. under what circumstance are you thinking that the scenario you suggest? the argument regarding the safetly glasses is a bit flawed as steel of the same size is lighter and will slowdown faster. Edited January 18 by Sweet11-87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 steel does not deform like lead does after hitting flesh it will keep going further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 4 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: steel does not deform like lead as you know at a pheasant shoot one of the beaters was hit in the face with lead shot he was wearing glasses some pellets were in his face can you think of what would have happened if it was steel shot ps the shooter was kicked out of the shoot for shooting below the tree height Your scenario for comparing the lethality of lead and steel is all to do with poor gun handling and nothing at all to do with the type of shot. It’s as farcical as someone stating ‘if they hadn’t been shooting it wouldn’t have happened!’ Ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 ok i give up keep using steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 (edited) 10 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: steel does not deform like lead does after hitting flesh it will keep going further i appreciation what your saying but the laws of physics don't agree with you unfortunately. 2 projectiles of the same size and shape the heavier more dense of the 2 will carry more energy at a greater given distance. i hear what you are suggesting about softer lead deforming but the energy it carries pellet for pellet over an equal sized steel (very soft iron) will give it the edge. its why its been used as a impact projectile since they discovered it more or less. both are very much lethal but i dont think the poor chap would have been worse off having been hit with steel shot. its the basis of why its advised to go up a shot size or 2 when using steel because its simply not as effective as lead. Edited January 18 by Sweet11-87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 he would have as the lead pellets deformed the steel could have gone thru the cheeks also non lead pellets for air guns have been tested and are useless after a short range they also don't deform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 11 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: ok i give up keep using steel 😄 Thanks. Sorry, but your claim just doesn’t make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 7 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: he would have as the lead pellets deformed the steel could have gone thru the cheeks also non lead pellets for air guns have been tested and are useless after a short range they also don't deform well like everyone youre entitled to your opinions and you may be right but literally everything ive read and experienced will lead me to believe the opposite is true. yes the harder material will deform less but its also lighter and will slow down quicker and strike with less energy. at any given range bar point blank were the point is moot lead is the more lethal material. like i said above for the energy retention and penetration its advised to go up 2 shot sizes when using steel to achieve the results desired from lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 21 hours ago, holloway said: Sadly quite a few rfd s wouldn't have a clue what a scored barrel looks like Very, very true! 1 hour ago, Scully said: Isn’t that down to wad failure? Steel can and will score the barrels of even a HP steel shot proofed gun if the wad fails. Yes, wad failure is the worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 15 minutes ago, London Best said: Yes, wad failure is the worry. I think we’ll be ok; manufacturers survival depends on the integrity of their products. 🤞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 20 minutes ago, Scully said: I think we’ll be ok; manufacturers survival depends on the integrity of their products. 🤞 I’m sure they will improve and solve the problem in time. I just hope I live long enough to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 Just to put a curve ball in, I see week in and week out steel getting used more and more and IMHO there are way way more pricked birds at the end of a shoot than ever before, which in turn has to be financially and morally factored in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said: well like everyone youre entitled to your opinions and you may be right but literally everything ive read and experienced will lead me to believe the opposite is true. yes the harder material will deform less but its also lighter and will slow down quicker and strike with less energy. at any given range bar point blank were the point is moot lead is the more lethal material. like i said above for the energy retention and penetration its advised to go up 2 shot sizes when using steel to achieve the results desired from lead. when i load steel i keep shot size the same as lead or smaller but increase the speed to compensate ,basic problem is poor gun handling nothing to do with steel or lead . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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