Question re -firearms ticket

[dob]

Just started loading my own bullets , what do I need to put on my firearms ? Do I put calibre , how many and do I need to write home loading as well ?

[London Best]

Never, that’s never, write on your own firearm certificate.

[dob]

So what do I do if I not buying bullets any more and loading my own ? Surely I need to keep a record of how many I am loading as I am limited to 150 rounds .

[Windswept]

As said, you don't write home loaded rounds on your cert. It would be wise these days to keep your own note book to keep records, recipes, and to show usage.

[dob]

So is it a legal requirement to show how many I am loading ?

[Scully]

Things may have changed since I reloaded for handguns, but the only time ammo was noted on a ticket was when it was bought ….ie complete rounds as in a box of 50. 
Even though there was a limit to amount possessed at any one time, I  never kept a record or notes of any kind as to how many I reloaded. 
I could reload 200 on Friday and shoot them all the following Sunday, so what would be the point? 🤷‍♂️

1 minute ago, dob said:

So is it a legal requirement to show how many I am loading ?

If it is it’s news to me. Have you been told to inform licensing? 

[dob]

Oh , ok . Always bought rounds in the past but wanted to keep everything in order , don’t want to upset my fao come renewal time .

[wyn]

4 minutes ago, dob said:

So is it a legal requirement to show how many I am loading ?

NO  You don't legaly have to show anything.

But don't have more reloaded and bought rounds than you are allowed to keep

[dob]

Ok , great thanks . Will do . Very helpful ta .

[bluesj]

Keep any receipts for powder etc in case your feo wants some sort of proof

[RCB56]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Never, that’s never, write on your own firearm certificate.

That's apart from your signature.

[London Best]

Just now, RCB56 said:

That's apart from your signature.

I thought I had added an edit to say just that, but somehow the edit hasn’t posted. (I’m a Luddite with a computer).

[steve_b_wales]

11 hours ago, bluesj said:

Keep any receipts for powder etc in case your feo wants some sort of proof

This is what I have always done. I keep the receipts for any powder, primers or bullets I purchase. I have receipts going back a few years.

I also have receipts for any firearms I've bought/sold, going back at least 20 years. 

Edited February 2 by steve_b_wales

[London Best]

I have been loading all my centre fire ammunition since 1992. 
I have never kept any receipts, but do keep a log for my own use. 
The firearms department have never queried quantities made or used since the first renewal after 1992, when I informed the FEO that I was reloading.

[enfieldspares]

3 hours ago, London Best said:

Never, that’s never, write on your own firearm certificate.

2 hours ago, RCB56 said:

That's apart from your signature.

No. It's not correct. There are a number of occasions when FAC holder or SGC holder may write on there own FAC or SGC.

I have done it

1) when I have transferred a firearm held on my RFD onto my personal FAC and personal SGC when selling a gun held as stock to myself. See 5).

I have done it

2) when I have imported a firearm from the USA back in the day, a .357 Magnum Smith & Wesson pre-Model 27 I've mentioned in the "Favourite Gun" thread, when these were sent by normal US Postal Service accompanied by a valid UK Import Licence. Indeed those personally importing firearms or shotguns into the UK often also do so as HM Customs or Border Force often request such is done on the person's arrival with the weapon at the UK border.

I have done it

3) when transferring my just deceased father's shotguns (held on his SGC) onto my SGC in my role as his executor.

I have done it

4) when multi-shot shotguns went from SGC status to FAC status following the 1988 Firearms Act and I "transferred" my unrestricted 16 bore Browning Auto-5 onto the appropriate newly granted variation slot on my FAC.

That's four occasions. 1) and 3) you might argue I've done it as a different "actor" but ") and 4) I've done it as myself.

And 5) as below if I hadn't had an RFD at the time I'd also have done it as myself.

And

5) Others times can be when a shotgun is given to you on your SGC by a third party who for whatever reason withholds their name and address. Which I have done onto my RFD Register but not on to my own FAC or SGC but would have been entitled nevertheless to do if I had had no RFD.

So I do wish that PW fellow members should stop making up law that doesn't exist. Or denying procedures that are in fact permitted.

I apologise if that sounds impolite or harsh but to say that apart from your signature you never write on your own FAC or SGC is incorrect.

But yes to the OP's original question it is indeed current and l presently accepted practice and custom not to enter ammunition you've loaded yourself as an FAC holder onto your FAC where a third party would enter it. But see however 1) where I have sold ammunition to myself. 

Edited February 1 by enfieldspares

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 hours ago, London Best said:

I thought I had added an edit to say just that, but somehow the edit hasn’t posted. (I’m a Luddite with a computer).

Not just with a computer.......................

[London Best]

8 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

No. It's not correct. There are a number of occasions when FAC holder or SGC holder may write on there own FAC or SGC.

I have done it

1) when I have transferred a firearm held on my RFD onto my personal FAC and personal SGC when selling a gun held as stock to myself. See 5).

I have done it

2) when I have imported a firearm from the USA back in the day, a .357 Magnum Smith & Wesson pre-Model 27 I've mentioned in the "Favourite Gun" thread, when these were sent by normal US Postal Service accompanied by a valid UK Import Licence. Indeed those personally importing firearms or shotguns into the UK often also do so as HM Customs or Border Force often request such is done on the person's arrival with the weapon at the UK border.

I have done it

3) when transferring my just deceased father's shotguns (held on his SGC) onto my SGC in my role as his executor.

I have done it

4) when multi-shot shotguns went from SGC status to FAC status following the 1988 Firearms Act and I "transferred" my unrestricted 16 bore Browning Auto-5 onto the appropriate newly granted variation slot on my FAC.

That's four occasions. 1) and 3) you might argue I've done it as a different "actor" but ") and 4) I've done it as myself.

And 5) as below if I hadn't had an RFD at the time I'd also have done it as myself.

And

5) Others times can be when a shotgun is given to you on your SGC by a third party who for whatever reason withholds their name and address. Which I have done onto my RFD Register but not on to my own FAC or SGC but would have been entitled nevertheless to do if I had had no RFD.

So I do wish that PW fellow members should stop making up law that doesn't exist. Or denying procedures that are in fact permitted.

I apologise if that sounds impolite or harsh but to say that apart from your signature you never write on your own FAC or SGC is incorrect.

But yes to the OP's original question it is indeed current and l presently accepted practice and custom not to enter ammunition you've loaded yourself as an FAC holder onto your FAC where a third party would enter it. But see however 1) where I have sold ammunition to myself. 

I accept what you are saying, but all “special cases” and hardly applicable to the OP.

[Rim Fire]

9 hours ago, London Best said:

I have been loading all my centre fire ammunition since 1992. 
I have never kept any receipts, but do keep a log for my own use. 
The firearms department have never queried quantities made or used since the first renewal after 1992, when I informed the FEO that I was reloading.

This 👍             i reload for 4 rifles and don't keep any receipts of any kind if the FAO coms  then he can see you reload 

 

[London Best]

8 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

This 👍             i reload for 4 rifles and don't keep any receipts of any kind if the FAO coms  then he can see you reload 

 

I keep a log of what I load, and for whom if not for myself. 
That way I can trace what is where if there should ever be a problem with any batch, which there never has been. (That’s ****** it now, saying that!)

[Scully]

10 hours ago, bluesj said:

Keep any receipts for powder etc in case your feo wants some sort of proof

I’d advise against that to be honest. I’m not having a pop, but if it’s not required by legislation then I’m very strongly in the ‘then don’t do it’ camp, otherwise it’ll become standard practice. 

[Rim Fire]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’d advise against that to be honest. I’m not having a pop, but if it’s not required by legislation then I’m very strongly in the ‘then don’t do it’ camp, otherwise it’ll become standard practice. 

This ☝️   This is what happened with medical forms some forces started with they need them some didn't then it became law that you had to have them

i  put in for a 223 variation last year i bought 2 boxes of bullets with the rifle and haven't bought a box since as i get all my components off the internet i got a lot of stuff off here 

[Scully]

10 hours ago, London Best said:

I have been loading all my centre fire ammunition since 1992. 
I have never kept any receipts, but do keep a log for my own use. 
The firearms department have never queried quantities made or used since the first renewal after 1992, when I informed the FEO that I was reloading.

This. Never never never never do ANYTHING which isn’t required by legislation. 👍

[Zoli 12 guage]

12 hours ago, London Best said:

Never, that’s never, write on your own firearm certificate.

i've done it!

i bought a FAC mk2 Rapid without a moderator and under instruction from west yorks FAL put a moderator which i already owned but not on my FAC onto my own ticket to enable me to use it on that particular gun.

[Minky]

13 hours ago, Scully said:

I’d advise against that to be honest. I’m not having a pop, but if it’s not required by legislation then I’m very strongly in the ‘then don’t do it’ camp, otherwise it’ll become standard practice. 

I fully agree with the above.  It is  not a requirement to keep records of components bought or rounds reloaded.  Two FEOs have said about having a reloading book. ( I did advise them that it was total nonsense because I could write down anything that bore no relation to the true amount loaded or shot.   And one particular FEO TOLD me (along with others and even dealers) that reloaded rounds had to be added to the ammunition  column. All of this is a result of trying it on and make it up as they went along. The medical certificate is a glowing example of this. No one in our so called shooting organisations bothered to contest any of this.  I was told that in Essex FEOs  were asking to see primers that had been removed. They say that it is policy..? The feo that told people to add rounds to their certs did get pulled infor a word.  He didn't last long.  Do not ever ever think that plod is your mate, because he isn't and will attempt to get browny points if they can.   Look at the stunts they've attempted over the years.  (Mentors)..  DSC courses ... bullying people to give up because they don't use their guns enough.

Edited February 2 by Minky

[HantsRob]

So I am not an FAC person..... Question....

if you are allowed 150 of a bullet type, this means you can legally only own 150 maximum, whether in transit or storage. Questions:

• If you know you're going to a busy comp, and you have 150 at home, but need to but some at the comp, you technically can't buy another box of 25 at the comp? Or is there a touch of legal leeway?
• Do the shops trace/audit/submit any data on what's bought? Or do they look at your licence and sell up to the max value? 
• Anything stopping you asking another shopkeeper to sell the same amount (minus a colleague noticing you)?
• FAC guns need "Using" to show a purpose. How do you prove usage if you don't keep stats on what's shot? Or is this based on trust?

 

I'm guessing it's mostly goodwill and trust throughout all of this? It seems like a sensible approach as the governance is around issuance and monitoring of licencees.