BASC sustainable shooting guide - bag limits

[scolopax]

Recently published, not much to argue against but no doubt many will. Some wildfowl species are undoubtedly declining, so official advise on how to adjust our harvest rates etc is surely a good thing

https://basc.org.uk/wildfowling/advice/sustainable-shooting-code-of-practice/

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Looks very sensible.

[marsh man]

I think the days of market gunners are long gone , no one needs to sell any spare wildfowl they get to make ends meet , at one time we shot whatever we could and the local game dealer would take all the surplus , then we had a self imposed limit as demand for game ect started to decline , at club level they had there own bag limits and nowadays you take what you want within reason and then sit back and enjoy watching the rest of the flight .

Once you lose a specie off the list it is then very unlikely you will ever get it back .   MM

[muncher]

First question, what about punt gunners ? Second thing , do you Believe land owners or inland shooters will fill in bag returns, never going to happen, or a best very minimal. This will only lead to more restrictions. Yea it looks good on paper but just dig a bit deeper and think about what they are implying. The other thing to consider is, only 1% of wildfowl is taken on the foreshore. 99% inland. 

Edited February 28 by muncher

[Poor Shot]

24 minutes ago, muncher said:

First question, what about punt gunners ? Second thing , do you Believe land owners or inland shooters will fill in bag returns, never going to happen, or a best very minimal. This will only lead to more restrictions. Yea it looks good on paper but just dig a bit deeper and think about what they are implying. The other thing to consider is, only 1% of wildfowl is taken on the foreshore. 99% inland. 

That's a very valid point. What's the use in restricting bag numbers on the foreshore only for people to be running commercial enterprises a few miles inland feeding wild birds with unlimited bag numbers? 

I've grown very sick this year of some common users of the Giving up the Game' facebook page who are posting large bags of teal, widgeon etc for give away because paying clients have shot them and aren't interested in taking them home for the pot. How sustainable is that considering near the whole bag is made up of wild birds? 

[Pushandpull]

As above. This is an extension of the nonsense of NE consents on SSSIs.  If we are going to restrict the take of migratory wild species then the place to start is fed flight ponds, often within a stone's throw of the estuaries where true wildfowling takes place. In the USA it is illegal to "bait" migratory species and you can even go to jail for it !

At the end of the season I was offered a large bag of teal and other species which had been shot but were unwanted. They are now in my freezer, but I would rather they were flying back north to breed.

[scolopax]

I will confess I’ve only read the guidance quickly, but I thought that the recommendations were for all, inland and foreshore? Yes of course they are not binding, especially inland but they give food for thought and some real numbers as voluntary limits.

[Poor Shot]

It's general cover-all guidance but is reliant on self regulation. Self regulation has never been the strong point of commercially operating enterprises. I'm dead set against all forms of regulation and licensing as a whole but in this case it seems that those who are causing the most damage are those who are least restricted and monitored. 

It wouldn't be a bad thing for these one man band duck flighting operations to start signing up to a voluntary BASC accreditation scheme where their bags can be monitored and the beneficial work they claim to do to their lands can be verified. Much in the same way wildfowling clubs align themselves with BASC. 

Otherwise its just a lad with a quad throwing sacks of feed into a ditch and charging people £85 a evening to shoot anything that comes within range. It's not a good look for the sport. 

At least the bigger commercial pheasant and driven duck shoots are rearing and releasing their own game and can partially justify big bags rather than placing a huge burden on the wild populations of birds. 

[holloway]

On 28/02/2024 at 09:41, muncher said:

First question, what about punt gunners ? Second thing , do you Believe land owners or inland shooters will fill in bag returns, never going to happen, or a best very minimal. This will only lead to more restrictions. Yea it looks good on paper but just dig a bit deeper and think about what they are implying. The other thing to consider is, only 1% of wildfowl is taken on the foreshore. 99% inland. 

Guidelines state “this code does not apply to the use of large bore historic firearms when used to keep alive historic,   cultural and traditional   ways of life “

Its a real shame that the basic contents of this advice has to be recommended by Basc when many already use there own sound judgement in the first place ,but sadly many do not .

[Penelope]

On 28/02/2024 at 09:41, muncher said:

First question, what about punt gunners ? Second thing , do you Believe land owners or inland shooters will fill in bag returns, never going to happen, or a best very minimal. This will only lead to more restrictions. Yea it looks good on paper but just dig a bit deeper and think about what they are implying. The other thing to consider is, only 1% of wildfowl is taken on the foreshore. 99% inland. 

Exactly.

[muncher]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

Guidelines state “this code does not apply to the use of large bore historic firearms when used to keep alive historic,   cultural and traditional   ways of life “

Its a real shame that the basic contents of this advice has to be recommended by Basc when many already use there own sound judgement in the first place ,but sadly many do not .

I remember when they said. Big bores will be able to use lead shot as well 🤣

[holloway]

4 hours ago, muncher said:

I remember when they said. Big bores will be able to use lead shot as well 🤣

yes i remember that as well ,its a shame Basc don't make the laws .

[grahamch]

This has been prepared in case there is or when there is a review of the quarry list and looks to be a good idea overall.

We are almost unique in Europe not to have bag limits. 

Maybe reared mallard shooting and high volume inland decoying need and should be controlled to some degree. 

[guy baxendale]

I have seen BASC's new sustainable has generated posts here and elsewhere and has come in for a fair amount of criticism, some thing its too many birds and some not enough, some think they are shrowing us under the bus etc etc. Some context needs to be understood as to why they are doing it and the hell of a lot of stuff that has happen behind the scenes.

I went to a BASC on this last night (attendance was terrible). Having been to two events in the year i have gone from neutral on BASC to very pro. I see load of BASC bashing but most fowlers are simply unaware of what they are doing (part of that is because they have deliberately kept a lot of it under their hat. The next few months will be quiet but they will be publicising it a hell of a lot more in the run up to September 1st. It is not aimed at wildfowlers it is aimed at everyone......it is wildfowlers that will suffer though as most rely on consents for their shooting at Natural England are taking the 'precautionary approach' to shooting (despite the fact that someone 50 yards over the sea wall can (if they are so minded and can hit them) shoot as many in an evening as most wildfowlers will shoot over a whole season.

Well what have BASC been doing.

Lobbying Ministers, Defra and Natural England, teaching them about wildfowling and even taking them on outings

They have been trying to get ahead of NE and their precautionary approach (which is NE's default position in the abscence of data). We are still signed up to European legislation that forces the government to take action where declines are identified. Essentially the government is already in default with Pintail and they should have actually taken them off the list 2 years ago......it will happen unless they can show they are taking action to reverse declines. BASC are trying to avoid this happening by showing that the shooting world is self regulating (hence the two pintail limit).

Pochard have problems right across the flyway hence the voluntary moratorium.

 

Mallard, Wigeon and Teal also have worrying trends and the data we currently have simply isnt good enough.

 

Data is the key to protecting ourselves - the wing survey is one part of it. BASC have also undertaken an internal one showcasing each species and issues with effecting each one. They have also 50% funded an external study. Run by Tom Cameron from the University of Essex. He spoke and was super impressive. Big picture is unless we have the data to show what a 'sustainable harvest' is then the default from NE etc will be 'precautionary approach' and we will see absurd bag limits like on the Humber.

What can we do?

• Put up nesting tubes (IMO every shot pond should have at least one)
• send in your wings to BASC,
• form a local ringing group,
• clubs can decide whether to put the BASC recomendations into hard rules (he didnt say it outright but James Green i think could certainly use that as ammunition to show we are doing the right thing).
• spread the word - try and encourage others in the shooting world (particularly inland) to curb their excesses when shooting wild ducks.
• attend BASC events (As i say the turnout last night was woeful), see what they are doing and help spread the word further.
• Get the BASC wildfowling team to come and tell your club what they are doing - i am pretty sure you will be impressed and want to get on board.

 

BASC dont have the W in the name anymore but so what....they have a far bigger voice and a wildfowling team that love it just as much as us.

 

I leave you with the most worrying thought......if we loose Pintail then shooting in low light/ mis-identification comes under the spotlight and we could lose that like in the USA.

 

Edited March 1 by guy baxendale

[Pushandpull]

Very sound. PM coming.

[Fellside]

I don’t see anything wrong with what is being suggested. “No more than 10 ducked per person per day” is more than my own self imposed limit, but gives flexibility for those who don’t shoot very often. 

[nic]

my personal limits have depended nowhere I was shooting.  Where I live now I do not take more than 3 geese and 4 duck..... don't think I have ever managed to reach that!   when I lived in the NW then it was geese - 2 grey 2 black and up to 10 duck.   only managed both sides of that once.

 

[London Best]

15 hours ago, Fellside said:

I don’t see anything wrong with what is being suggested. “No more than 10 ducked per person per day” is more than my own self imposed limit, but gives flexibility for those who don’t shoot very often. 

Be VERY careful what you wish/vote for. 
It is always the thin end of the wedge.

[Fellside]

31 minutes ago, London Best said:

Be VERY careful what you wish/vote for. 
It is always the thin end of the wedge.

Yes I understand your caution, as often these ‘guidelines’ can be adopted more firmly. 10 ducks though…..?! That’s a fair old heap for one gun. 

[London Best]

2 hours ago, Fellside said:

Yes I understand your caution, as often these ‘guidelines’ can be adopted more firmly. 10 ducks though…..?! That’s a fair old heap for one gun. 

I quite agree, more than enough. 
But in 5 or 10 years time?

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

I quite agree, more than enough. 
But in 5 or 10 years time?

See what you mean. 

[scolopax]

A lot of shooters I hate to say have no knowledge of how out various wild quarry species are faring. 
 

this guidance is just that, to let shooters know which species in particular are not doing well and providing suggestions of appropriate ‘harvest’ levels for some of those which are seeing declines.

[muncher]

BASC have already submitted this to defra, yet again without consulting its members. I think this will only end in restrictions, I hope I’m wrong. 

[flippermaj]

But if basc had submitted nothing there would surely be a much much greater chance of a similar outcome to that in Ireland where 4 duck species were removed from the quarry list?

 

[holloway]

1 hour ago, flippermaj said:

But if basc had submitted nothing there would surely be a much much greater chance of a similar outcome to that in Ireland where 4 duck species were removed from the quarry list?

 

exactly .And remember its guidance nothing more.