kitchrat Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 That clip is from Shooting Times. I struggle to get 20p for a pigeon, they (admittedly a "posh" pub) got £40 for the meat! Round here, Fallow Deer are becoming a plague, farmers want them shot but the guys with all the gear and training etc can hardly get more than a few £ for all the effort, so don't bother. Yet venison is way more expensive than many meats in the supermarket or diner. Lots of good food goes to waste because of "Rip Off Britain". NB Show me a butcher selling pigeons for £3 and I'm round there to do a deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 I don't know the answer to this from personal experience but my friend who runs a big shooting syndicate in the West Country has told me they can't sell their shot pheasants anymore because they don't have some sort of meat licence . The implication being its not worth the expense of getting one Perhaps someone with more experience with these matters can elaborate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 10 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I don't know the answer to this from personal experience but my friend who runs a big shooting syndicate in the West Country has told me they can't sell their shot pheasants anymore because they don't have some sort of meat licence . The implication being its not worth the expense of getting one Perhaps someone with more experience with these matters can elaborate You have to register as a primary food producer with your local council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilts#Dave Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 It’s a real shame pigeons seem to be off the menu now, ever since Covid they seem to have hit rock bottom. We had a local place for years who would come and get our frozen pigeons in bulk in a van as and when we needed them to and worked brilliantly…..not a money maker but that’s not what we do it for and made shooting any numbers stress free. They closed down during Covid and it’s been a bit of a pain getting rid of large numbers ever since, I’ve managed but it’s all a bit of a pain and not as straightforward as it used to be. I phoned every game dealer within an hour and a half and all were almost rude when I mentioned wood pigeons….a resounding ‘no’ was all I heard, so clearly they’ve no outlet for them? Back in the day they used to cry out for them in any numbers, and as long as you didn’t mind taking them in it was always easy to offload large numbers of fresh or frozen birds, the more the merrier…..makes you think why isn’t pigeon on the menu as a cheaper option as clearly supply now outstrips demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 3 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I don't know the answer to this from personal experience but my friend who runs a big shooting syndicate in the West Country has told me they can't sell their shot pheasants anymore because they don't have some sort of meat licence . The implication being its not worth the expense of getting one Perhaps someone with more experience with these matters can elaborate The place where I worked had to comply with the hygiene requirements that was needed to sell game at that particular time which must have been at least 20 years ago , we had a purpose built game larder up the hall that was built out of stone with a hard brick floor , we had to take all the old rails down because we could no longer hang the game by the head by the point of a nail , this was replaced by treated timber with brass V clips that were placed in such a way that no game touched each other while cooling off . The old wooden table where we laid the game on was replaced with a stainless steel one , we had to provide hot water soap and towels for anyone who had touched game and drainage to wash the floor down which we didn't do as our boss didn't want the original brick floor disturbed , now the regulations might have been altered , but it could be another reason why game are given away on a days shoot . As for pigeons , all the ones I used to sell to the game dealer had the estates name on the invoice rather than my name , again things might have changed by now as I no longer get enough to warrant the long journey to the dealers . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Shot Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 I'm not a subject matter expert but it's more than likely the amount of paperwork, process and licensing which puts a massive blocker in place for most small scale stalking or game shooting operations from selling game into the food chain. Why bother having £0000's of chiller and food handling facilities plus associated licensing, membership scheme fees and costs etc installed for 10 - 15 shot animals per week which are worth £80-£100 at most wholesale into the trade or large amount of relatively worthless birds which are seasonal only? Add in to this that a lot of game shooting or deer stalking takes place as a hobby (or that the meat production is secondary to the sporting aspect) and that most who take part will be living in a standard domestic property which likely won't comply with the requirements of the licensing or be able to house to required facilities then a commercial premises will be required at another huge cost. It's not surprising that a £0.15 pigeon/ £0.50 pheasant/ £30 deer carcass soon becomes a £40 starter when all of these costs are added up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 13 minutes ago, Wilts#Dave said: It’s a real shame pigeons seem to be off the menu now, ever since Covid they seem to have hit rock bottom. We had a local place for years who would come and get our frozen pigeons in bulk in a van as and when we needed them to and worked brilliantly…..not a money maker but that’s not what we do it for and made shooting any numbers stress free. They closed down during Covid and it’s been a bit of a pain getting rid of large numbers ever since, I’ve managed but it’s all a bit of a pain and not as straightforward as it used to be. I phoned every game dealer within an hour and a half and all were almost rude when I mentioned wood pigeons….a resounding ‘no’ was all I heard, so clearly they’ve no outlet for them? Back in the day they used to cry out for them in any numbers, and as long as you didn’t mind taking them in it was always easy to offload large numbers of fresh or frozen birds, the more the merrier…..makes you think why isn’t pigeon on the menu as a cheaper option as clearly supply now outstrips demand. Before corvid I was selling 30 Pigeons every week to one pub in the village , this was a well used pub and in the Summer months they had a fair bit of holiday trade off the Broads cruisers to increase the numbers dining out , by the end of the Summer I had sold around 700 , they also took a fair bit of game in the shooting season as well , then the corvid struck and the place had to cancel functions as everywhere had to close down , this was a disaster on his trade and when his four year lease was up he didn't sign for another four years as he was losing money , a new bloke took it on and he was keen to serve Pigeons on the menu , from 30 a week with the previous chap it was now 25 every two weeks , this only lasted for the Summer season as the chef packed the job in , moving on to last year , again the new chap was keen to include Pigeons as he advertised using local produce , this chap was running two pubs that sold meals and they struggled to use 25 a fortnight between the two pubs and before last Summer finished I stopped taking them as they had several in the freezer , now I don't bother selling them as no one want frozen as they can get enough fresh for there needs and I cannot ever seeing the situation improving . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 mate preps our birds for direct sale to hotels etc demand does falls of at times but his freezers pick up the slack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 There is regulation and legislation regarding the processing of game dependant on who the end user is going to be. If it’s for yourself the regulations are pretty simple, but if it’s to be sold for public consumption then as a supplier there are laws to abide by. This is one of the reasons I gave up my CF rifle; loads of deer to shoot but no one wants them and I couldn’t be bothered to register then fork out for kit to comply. As **** law would have it our old game dealer got in touch late last year with a list of everything he wanted, including venison. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted April 4 Author Report Share Posted April 4 7 hours ago, Vince Green said: I don't know the answer to this from personal experience but my friend who runs a big shooting syndicate in the West Country has told me they can't sell their shot pheasants anymore because they don't have some sort of meat licence . The implication being its not worth the expense of getting one Perhaps someone with more experience with these matters can elaborate Yes you have list when you shot them, where you shot them, how you cooled them, how they were stored, at what temperature etc etc. Just to make it almost impossible. However, the stalking boys do all this and still get peanuts for their venison, if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, kitchrat said: Yes you have list when you shot them, where you shot them, how you cooled them, how they were stored, at what temperature etc etc. Just to make it almost impossible. However, the stalking boys do all this and still get peanuts for their venison, if anything. Two quid per kilo our dealer pays for Roe. Have no idea if that’s good or bad but I’ve never shot anything because of its value. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serrac Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 Would the regulations be any more lenient if game meat was being sold on for pet food? I no longer have my dog but often thought I'd rather be feeding him some real meat than the (don't know what's in them) commercial foods. And then you see what stuff like pigs ears and trotters fetches in the pet stores... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 31 minutes ago, serrac said: Would the regulations be any more lenient if game meat was being sold on for pet food? I no longer have my dog but often thought I'd rather be feeding him some real meat than the (don't know what's in them) commercial foods. And then you see what stuff like pigs ears and trotters fetches in the pet stores... Not sure how you would get on with the meat containing lead shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, Scully said: Two quid per kilo our dealer pays for Roe. Have no idea if that’s good or bad but I’ve never shot anything because of its value. 🤷♂️ Great ethic Scully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilts#Dave Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 2 hours ago, Scully said: Two quid per kilo our dealer pays for Roe. Have no idea if that’s good or bad but I’ve never shot anything because of its value. 🤷♂️ I’m the same, not bothered about the value of what I shoot but don’t feel comfortable shooting a heap of pigeons and having to chuck them away (I know there’s the age old debate of it being pest control so shouldn’t matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 13 hours ago, Wilts#Dave said: I’m the same, not bothered about the value of what I shoot but don’t feel comfortable shooting a heap of pigeons and having to chuck them away (I know there’s the age old debate of it being pest control so shouldn’t matter). In this day and age I very much doubt if anyone can make any money by selling game of any description , covering your costs is about as much as you can hope for , that is fair enough and having spent a lifetime where there was an outlet of some sorts even though you got very little for your troubles then at least you didn't have to resort in dumping them , the last lot I took to the dealers was about two years ago , I had just over 300 and from mine was a 80 odd return trip , I knew what I was going to get before I took them as I rang them up to see what time they shut on a Sunday , they took every single one and I got 10p each , not a lot but I had the satisfaction that someone was going to make use of them , now unless things have changed I don't think they are no longer taking frozen Pigeons , fresh Pigeons might be alright , but if they are only paying about 20p and you have managed to shoot 50 you would need to live pretty close to the dealers to even cover the cost of fuel , we have now got to accept that the ( good ole days of selling game ) is over and I cannot ever see it returning . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 Hello, it certainly makes you think if your shooting lots of pigeon for pest control and no where to sell them or try give away but even that has its problems, maybe it is another nail in the coffin to pigeon shooting, saying this i have not been decoying for many months due to lack of pigeon or the wet weather, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 Another possible explanation for the lack of sales (pheasants) is that the birds are now a lot smaller bred to fly as a testing target as opposed to being a larger bird for the table just a thought 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted April 7 Author Report Share Posted April 7 On 04/04/2024 at 20:41, Wilts#Dave said: I’m the same, not bothered about the value of what I shoot but don’t feel comfortable shooting a heap of pigeons and having to chuck them away (I know there’s the age old debate of it being pest control so shouldn’t matter). That's exactly the problem, the farmers want them gone, the guys with the equipment/experience don't want to shoot them and be left with a load of venison they can't get anything for. Having to gut it, drag it home etc is much the same as shooting a 100 pigeons, except the stalker, for all his time and effort gets one shot, then the work begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 On 05/04/2024 at 13:10, Old farrier said: Another possible explanation for the lack of sales (pheasants) is that the birds are now a lot smaller bred to fly as a testing target as opposed to being a larger bird for the table just a thought 🤔 I don't know if the size of the bird would make any difference as some of the smaller ones taste better than the big ens , Partridges don't change to much in size and it's all down to supply and demand , we are in a heavy game shooting county and each year seem to get worse than the previous year as far as moving game on , last year I did hear that some people were lucky to get 50p a brace , I know the dealer who was buying some of ours were paying 30p for a hen and 40p for a cock Pheasant , that would work out £7.00 for 10 brace and that was delivered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 When you consider the body to promote game meat sales is called 'Eat Wild' which must be a complete con for most of the stuff they promote/market etc. Ok I can accept that venison and a small proportion of game birds and duck are truely wild the vast majority must be reared game and can hardly be described as wild - so they are trying to con the public at the out set l think! Yes I know that once game birds are out of a pen they are legally classed as wild but still think the name of the organisation is a complete con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mable Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 When I started shooting, butchers and fishmongers had game hanging outside. You could take rabbits, hare, pigeon, duck etc, straight from the shoot and sell them, (or pay off ya mams tick). Not seen hanging game for what? 30 to 40 years? Now, how often do you see independent butchers or fishmongers? It's all supermarkets and trays wrapped in shrink wrap. I wouldn't know where to sell anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 On 04/04/2024 at 19:50, Weihrauch17 said: Great ethic Scully. I think he means he shoot’s and doesn’t care about it’s value , not that he isn’t shooting because of the value. Lot of Pigeon on menu’s are imported from France from lofts so they don’t contain pellets. We get 25p pigeon here and yes by the time the various people have done their work it’s £3.50 but I don’t care as everyone has to make money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 5 minutes ago, Fargo said: I think he means he shoot’s and doesn’t care about it’s value , not that he isn’t shooting because of the value. Lot of Pigeon on menu’s are imported from France from lofts so they don’t contain pellets. We get 25p pigeon here and yes by the time the various people have done their work it’s £3.50 but I don’t care as everyone has to make money Yes I got that, I wasn't being sarcastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 3 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said: Yes I got that, I wasn't being sarcastic? Ah 🙌🏻 yes shame more don’t think like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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