How much is it really...

[Luckyshot]

47 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

The lack of respect for the Police is a disgrace. I have said before that there is an element who believe adhering to the law is optional.

That's the problem, the law is optional if you're not a British citizen. Lets see how many of these rioters are punished.

[Gordon R]

I make no apology for again citing the late and great former GMP Chief Constable James Anderton. He brought in a system of identifying riot leaders, then sending in hit squads to snatch them. It sent a message to the rest.

Early days for the new Labour Government, but they need to stamp on this quickly.

[Raja Clavata]

Law becomes optional when it is not enforced. Personally when I see scenes like this I wonder why the water canons aren’t brought out, initially as a crowd dispersement method just through their presence and if things escalate to target specific individuals or groups. A few broken bones tends to temper the urge to run around and behave like wild animals.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Law becomes optional when it is not enforced. Personally when I see scenes like this I wonder why the water canons aren’t brought out, initially as a crowd dispersement method just through their presence and if things escalate to target specific individuals or groups. A few broken bones tends to temper the urge to run around and behave like wild animals.

Do we even have water cannon? I recall Boris buying a couple for London and they were sold at a loss 12 months later? These disorder events usually coincide with warm weather.  I am with Gordon on this ID the ring leaders and pick them up. 

No prisons to put them in or courts to process them. 

[Raja Clavata]

The story has been reported widely with details about social workers removing children, stopping short of mentioning a child being thrown out of a window which has presumably not been verified.

The clip of the topless white guy being goaded looks like a drunk or addict to me. There are plenty of other white people in the clip.

If the clip of the local councillor? and Police Inspector? isn’t a spoof then no wonder the Police are having issues in that area.

There’s also a picture of Police reportedly running towards the trouble which could well be reported elsewhere/on alternative media outlets as running away from it. What to believe…

[Raja Clavata]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Do we even have water cannon? I recall Boris buying a couple for London and they were sold at a loss 12 months later? These disorder events usually coincide with warm weather.  I am with Gordon on this ID the ring leaders and pick them up. 

No prisons to put them in or courts to process them. 

To be honest I don’t know and pondered that as I wrote but this warrants them in my opinion. I do agree on the effectiveness of the ID’ing for later pickup, or grabbing ringleaders in real-time but the latter obviously needs a strong police presence on the ground.

I agree on your warm weather observation, I’m sure high pressure water has a cooling effect😉

Few things are black and white in my opinion, but I’ve always believed that people contributing to a breakdown in social law and order forego the normal rights of a law abiding public.

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

Few things are black and white in my opinion, but I’ve always believed that people contributing to a breakdown in social law and order forego the normal rights of a law abiding public.

With you on that. When the mob takes over rational thought goes out the window. These situations need to be overwhelmed by police at the earliest but I can't see that happening. 

[Newbie to this]

24 minutes ago, oowee said:

Do we even have water cannon? I recall Boris buying a couple for London and they were sold at a loss 12 months later? These disorder events usually coincide with warm weather.  I am with Gordon on this ID the ring leaders and pick them up. 

No prisons to put them in or courts to process them. 

I believe Thereasa May, brought legislation banning their use.

[Westley]

9 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I make no apology for again citing the late and great former GMP Chief Constable James Anderton. He brought in a system of identifying riot leaders, then sending in hit squads to snatch them. It sent a message to the rest.

Early days for the new Labour Government, but they need to stamp on this quickly.

Quite right, he stopped Manchester riots before they really started. The man had the sphericals to do it though.

Meanwhile, just down the road............ the riots continued  !     🙄

[johnphilip]

London water cannons sold of by Kann , seems he did not have the foresight,  to see they would be needed in the future. 

 

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/water-cannon-sold-to-help-fund-youth-projects

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Few things are black and white in my opinion, but I’ve always believed that people contributing to a breakdown in social law and order forego the normal rights of a law abiding public.

 

4 hours ago, oowee said:

With you on that.

You pair  have just made me spit coffee all over my screen !

You both must have said zillions of times how we need things like the ECHR to stop just that kind of stuff happening.
Now youre talking about removing the rights of 'mostly peaceful' rioters, and using water cannon on them !

Khans 'seriously considering' purchasing some water cannon 

Water cannon would escalate violence in response.The criteria for the deployment of water cannon require serious public disorder with the potential for loss of life, serious injury or widespread destruction. As such, significant violence will already be likely before water cannon is used.28 Feb 2024

https://www.london.gov.uk/media/42592/download#:~:text=Water cannon would escalate violence in response.&text=The criteria for the deployment,before water cannon is used.

[Rewulf]

'Despite some concerns raised during the engagement process, the Mayor is clear that the majority of Londoners support the police having access to this tool in limited circumstances and would have more confidence in the MPS’ ability to respond to serious disorder with this option available.'

[100milesaway]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

The story has been reported widely with details about social workers removing children, stopping short of mentioning a child being thrown out of a window which has presumably not been verified.

The clip of the topless white guy being goaded looks like a drunk or addict to me. There are plenty of other white people in the clip.

If the clip of the local councillor? and Police Inspector? isn’t a spoof then no wonder the Police are having issues in that area.

There’s also a picture of Police reportedly running towards the trouble which could well be reported elsewhere/on alternative media outlets as running away from it. What to believe…

The original problem was reported as a baby being thrown from a window and the family having having the rest of their kids removed for their own safety. The family were white and Romanian gypsies, a small protest escalated into full blown riot and it is obvious from the clips what ethnic  race was making it their own fight.We as a nation need to trust the independent media more and ditch the lying mainstream media. From Auntie.

[henry d]

On 19/07/2024 at 12:38, 100milesaway said:

We as a nation need to trust the independent media more and ditch the lying mainstream media.

Why? Who checks independent media?

[12gauge82]

46 minutes ago, henry d said:

Why? Who checks independent media?

I think a better question is who makes decisions on what not to report in mainstream media? 

There will always be conspiracy theories in independant media, but amongst that will be the truth somewhere. Mainstream media will always have pieces of the puzzle missing, which perversely is where most conspiracy theories grow from. 

[henry d]

Respectfully, it's not your question to answer, unless you have two accounts and a split personality. 

[100milesaway]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

Why? Who checks independent media?

No one checks either but I know where my preferences sit.

From Auntie 

[12gauge82]

6 hours ago, henry d said:

Respectfully, it's not your question to answer, unless you have two accounts and a split personality. 

Respectfully, you've posted on an open forum on the Internet, it's anyones question to answer, if you don't want anyone but the op to answer it'd be better to PM them in future. 

[henry d]

8 hours ago, 100milesaway said:

No one checks either but I know where my preferences sit.

From Auntie 

So why should we as a country follow your preferences?

[100milesaway]

26 minutes ago, henry d said:

So why should we as a country follow your preferences?

We as a country are struggling with the bombardment from many media outlets and as such need to be more open minded as to which ones we as individuals choose to believe. 12gauge82 puts it into perspective  better than I  can. I would not expect anyone else to follow my preferences,  just to become more aware of the alternatives.As I  said MY preferences.

From Auntie.

[henry d]

24 minutes ago, 100milesaway said:

I would not expect anyone else to follow my preferences,

" ...as such need to be more open minded as to which ones we as individuals choose to believe."

"We as a nation need to trust the independent media more and ditch the lying mainstream media."

You can see how this is a bit confusing 😕

[Mungler]

5 minutes ago, henry d said:

" ...as such need to be more open minded as to which ones we as individuals choose to believe."

"We as a nation need to trust the independent media more and ditch the lying mainstream media."

You can see how this is a bit confusing 😕

Not really. I think the gist is clear.

I’d add that getting as much information from as many sources has to be a good thing and having a natural skepticism of agenda driven MSM can’t hurt can it?

Indeed, no one watches mainstream scheduled TV any more and no one trusts the BBC for example - that brand has been long lost - take your pick from Covid to Gaza.

[henry d]

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

having a natural skepticism of agenda driven MSM can’t hurt can it?

That works both ways does it not? GB News for example...any bias there? 

[Mungler]

5 minutes ago, henry d said:

That works both ways does it not? GB News for example...any bias there? 

But in the same way there’s bias in Russia Today and the BBC.

GB News adds necessary and missing balance from the likes of the BBC and covering topics untouched by the BBC in the same way Farage adds an additional element to the political spectrum.

The problem is the left love Aunty Beeb and hate the likes of G B News and Farage. There we go. 

Edited July 25 by Mungler

[henry d]

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

But in the same way there’s bias in Russia Today and the BBC.

GB News adds necessary and missing balance from the likes of the BBC and covering topics untouched by the BBC in the same way Farage adds an additional element to the political spectrum.

The problem is the left love Aunty Been and hate the likes of G B News and Farage. There we go. 

That's what I said, and why I questioned "We as a nation need to trust the independent media more and ditch the lying mainstream media" which is just stupid.