JohnfromUK Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 35 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Are you suggesting that the only reason people have a crossbow is for illegitimate use? This guy had a crossbow. I don't know if he had it because he took part in some sport/competitive activity such as archery, or because he fancied one, or because he intended to use it for crime. I was not aware of any 'sport/competition' using crossbows, hence my question - but others above have said that they are used in field archery, something I know nothing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 36 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Are you suggesting that the only reason people have a crossbow is for illegitimate use? Hes clearly not saying that, he asked quite rightly 'what is' the legitimate use. Ill say straight away , I have one, a cheap Armex that I bought 15 years ago, for no apparent reason that I wanted one, when I realised the limitations to where you could use it, I had a couple of hours fun out of it in my business premises, and now it sits gathering dust. I also have several bows, and while they gave me a little longer interest, again, they gather dust. I once asked some local archery clubs about membership, and they were rather keen to point out NO crossbows, NO compound bows. Unless you have a very large back garden or land, they are a waste of time and money. And yes criminals do use them, the local scumbags near me send 'warnings' by putting a bolt in your front door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 38 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Hes clearly not saying that, he asked quite rightly 'what is' the legitimate use. Ill say straight away , I have one, a cheap Armex that I bought 15 years ago, for no apparent reason that I wanted one, when I realised the limitations to where you could use it, I had a couple of hours fun out of it in my business premises, and now it sits gathering dust. I also have several bows, and while they gave me a little longer interest, again, they gather dust. I once asked some local archery clubs about membership, and they were rather keen to point out NO crossbows, NO compound bows. Unless you have a very large back garden or land, they are a waste of time and money. And yes criminals do use them, the local scumbags near me send 'warnings' by putting a bolt in your front door. Did you ask shooting clubs as I know of at least 2 in my area where you can use them. My point of questioning John's opening statement is that it is this sort of question that gathers momentum. It then leads to further erosion of shooting sports. Just look at what happened with semi auto rifles and pistols. After the tragedies people then questioned the reasons why people would want such firearms. Despite there actually being a low percentage of lawful firearms users using their firearms for illegal purposes. It furthers the anti shooting groups arguments when shooting/field sports forums also question various forms of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 10 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Did you ask shooting clubs as I know of at least 2 in my area where you can use them. I can , and have used them at my clubs, but the backstops arent really designed for arrows or bolts. Im not sure what experience you have with stringed weapons, but its incredibly easy to destroy your rather expensive projectiles if they dont hit something soft, yet strong enough to stop them. Films depict arrows being pulled out of trees ect and used again, if you can actually get it out of the tree, that arrow is often unusable after that. When I got my first bow , I went straight to a field I had permission on and set myself a target up at 30 yards, feeling confident I loosed 5 x £5 each of carbon arrows at the target, they went straight through and buried themselves in the ground, never to be seen again. I didnt do it again 20 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Just look at what happened with semi auto rifles and pistols. After the tragedies people then questioned the reasons why people would want such firearms. I hear you , but public opinion was well on the side of banning them, and you cant really argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I can , and have used them at my clubs, but the backstops arent really designed for arrows or bolts. Im not sure what experience you have with stringed weapons, but its incredibly easy to destroy your rather expensive projectiles if they dont hit something soft, yet strong enough to stop them. Films depict arrows being pulled out of trees ect and used again, if you can actually get it out of the tree, that arrow is often unusable after that. When I got my first bow , I went straight to a field I had permission on and set myself a target up at 30 yards, feeling confident I loosed 5 x £5 each of carbon arrows at the target, they went straight through and buried themselves in the ground, never to be seen again. I didnt do it again I hear you , but public opinion was well on the side of banning them, and you cant really argue with that. I had a couple of bows as a kid and would shoot them on local fields and an estuary. Like you absolutely gutted when I lost my brightly coloured aluminium arrows. There must be hundereds of arrows waiting to be discovered by future archaeologists. 🤣I have also had a Wildcat crossbow since I was 15. A lot more care had to be taken when using it and have shattered many a bolt on a hard or rubber backstop. Like you this was unexpected at first especially when using carbon bolts. The places that I used to be able to shoot would no longer be acceptable these days. I haven’t shot my wildcat in a while and wouldn't really be overly concerned if it was surrendered. However I would still like to have the ability to shoot it should the fancy so take me. Edited July 11 by Rem260 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 11 Author Report Share Posted July 11 4 hours ago, old man said: Yep. An awful happening for sure. No doubt a knee jerk coming. The perpetrator can't have been right in the head? Just need to look at the numbers of ex military people in need of treatment? Allegedly, it's was over a relationship breakup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 They'll never get knives off the streets, who couldn't walk into a kitchen and grab a knife capable of doing someone harm. Crossbows I've never understood, now we went to Warwick Castle earlier in the year for the festival of Archery, it was a fantastic day out, giving a glimpse of just what a longbow can do in the right hands, from accurate shooting to long range shots aimed high to fall on the enemy as at Agincourt. A big part of the day was the teams competing with what looked like old crossbows, built as an original would have been, not about power but the skill of the user. Modern crossbows have a ridiculous amount of power, especially when you look at the restrictions on say air rifles at 12 ft/lb, and what it takes to get an FAC, yet I could go online now or to a shop and buy a crossbow. For me there is no need or point owning powerful crossbow, historic replica have a place, but Modern stuff doesn't. Some may say it's another thing lost, but I don't see how the shooting community could back crossbow ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 15 minutes ago, Mice! said: Modern crossbows have a ridiculous amount of power Some 30 or 40 years ago I was shown (at a security products show in connection with some work we were doing) a photo of the result of a crossbow bolt fired amongst other things through a car door. The exhibitor was selling a form of protection that was included inside the door assembly that would stop various types of projectile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 29 minutes ago, Mice! said: For me there is no need or point owning powerful crossbow, historic replica have a place, but Modern stuff doesn't. Some may say it's another thing lost, but I don't see how the shooting community could back crossbow ownership. I kind of agree with the crossbow thing, as there is no 'sport' attached to it, but a bow isnt far off in the power ratings. Compound bows with 50 + lbs of draw will kill at considerable range, and the physical effort required is often less than cocking a crossbow. Neither are a compact weapon. Slingshots ? Where do we stop ? Do we have to wait for something to be used in murders before they are banned or licenced, or are crossbows just niche enough to warrant it ? They tried to outlaw 50 cals a few years back because they were so 'dangerous' and no real reason for them, they were niche, but no crime had ever been committed with one on the British mmainland , and with fewer than 80 users in the UK, its amazing how they survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 Sad news, unless they were killed from a distance the fact a cross bow was used is irrelevant, he could have used anything to kill them including his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 15 hours ago, Houseplant said: How are you supposed to cut the anus out of a deer without a pointed knife? It would take a couple of minutes to put a point on a knife with a grinder. I'm not sure what to think anymore. I'm not a gun nut and probably fall to the left of most of the hunting community here in New Zealand, but where does the erosion of personal freedoms in the pursuit of public safety end? Sadly it probably never will end? The danger stemming from the calling for more restriction is a dangerous principal as endless cases can be made? For instance where is the final defence against the removal of say shotguns for game? Game shooters can hardy say they have to have a shotgun to prevent starvation? Beware of what you wish for?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 12 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I kind of agree with the crossbow thing, as there is no 'sport' attached to it, but a bow isnt far off in the power ratings. Compound bows with 50 + lbs of draw will kill at considerable range, and the physical effort required is often less than cocking a crossbow. Neither are a compact weapon. Slingshots ? Where do we stop ? Do we have to wait for something to be used in murders before they are banned or licenced, or are crossbows just niche enough to warrant it ? They tried to outlaw 50 cals a few years back because they were so 'dangerous' and no real reason for them, they were niche, but no crime had ever been committed with one on the British mmainland , and with fewer than 80 users in the UK, its amazing how they survived. Could not the same be said of driven pheasant shooting. Just because something has killed or has the potential to kill is not a justification to ban it without other extenuating circumstances. As you can never be sure what the unintended consequences are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 Fortunately this is after the General Election. Those of use that had pistols remember the electoral feeding frenzy between the Tories and Labour as the post-Dunblane legislation went through Parliament. Each party mindful of the election upcoming seeking to be tougher than the other. As general shooters shooting not pistols but smallbore or fullbore sporting rifles we ended up because of this with the classification, by the Tories "knee jerk" Home Secretary Michael Howard's legislation, of expanding ammunition and even the loose bullets as section 5. Now of course repealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mice! said: They'll never get knives off the streets, who couldn't walk into a kitchen and grab a knife capable of doing someone harm. Crossbows I've never understood, now we went to Warwick Castle earlier in the year for the festival of Archery, it was a fantastic day out, giving a glimpse of just what a longbow can do in the right hands, from accurate shooting to long range shots aimed high to fall on the enemy as at Agincourt. A big part of the day was the teams competing with what looked like old crossbows, built as an original would have been, not about power but the skill of the user. Modern crossbows have a ridiculous amount of power, especially when you look at the restrictions on say air rifles at 12 ft/lb, and what it takes to get an FAC, yet I could go online now or to a shop and buy a crossbow. For me there is no need or point owning powerful crossbow, historic replica have a place, but Modern stuff doesn't. Some may say it's another thing lost, but I don't see how the shooting community could back crossbow ownership. Because after they finish with crossbows they will come for the next item on the list. Your guns!!! Edited July 11 by Rem260 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 wait for the knee jerk to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 Hello, Another thought is Why this family ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 9 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Because after they finish with crossbows they will come for the next item on the list. Your guns!!! That's not a reason, we have a use for guns, lots of them, there's no real reason for a crossbow. 33 minutes ago, Rewulf said: kind of agree with the crossbow thing, as there is no 'sport' attached to it, but a bow isnt far off in the power ratings. Compound bows with 50 + lbs of draw will kill at considerable range, and the physical effort required is often less than cocking a crossbo A lot easier to conceal a crossbow and shoot one, pretty much a pistol in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 Just now, Mice! said: A lot easier to conceal a crossbow and shoot one, pretty much a pistol in some cases. Easier to shoot, harder to draw that string back, mine has a foot stirrup, but is a real back breaker, and Im far from a 7 stone weakling Pistol crossbows, by their nature of size, are not very powerful, a concealable one has about as much energy as throwing a rock by hand, maybe less depending how much youve been to the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 10 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, Another thought is Why this family ?? On BBC news page the BBC says it understands that the perpetrator was the former boyfriend of the daughter Louise Hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 Apparently a crossbow was recovered when the suspect was apprehended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Bobba said: On BBC news page the BBC says it understands that the perpetrator was the former boyfriend of the daughter Louise Hunt. Hello, ok , i did wonder if that may have been something like that as it happen to my older son back in his early life going out with a lovely young lady who was killed by an X boy friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Mice! said: That's not a reason, we have a use for guns, lots of them, there's no real reason for a crossbow. Are you saying that having one because you enjoy shooting it is not a valid reason ? I would hazard a guess that a large swathe of the public would say that most shotgun owners do not have a reason to have one if you rule out shooting for enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Are you saying that having one because you enjoy shooting it is not a valid reason ? I would hazard a guess that a large swathe of the public would say that most shotgun owners do not have a reason to have one if you rule out shooting for enjoyment. What can you shoot with a crossbow? That you can't shoot with an air pistol or rifle? You can't hunt, most ranges probably wouldn't let you on, and the power makes them dangerous, its only the power that most people want them for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj50me21mveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 11 Report Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Apparently a crossbow was recovered when the suspect was apprehended. Attempted suicide by crossbow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.