Riots and truth media

[sportsbob]

37 minutes ago, Flyboy1950 said:

I have been reading this thread with interest and it seems to me that the real reason for the start of this "Riot" is because a number of Roma children were removed by Social services (with the help of Police protection) to "A place of safety"  Nobody seems to want to address the reason why these children had to be removed from perceived danger by social services. These matters take a lot of soul searching by the authorities as they really dont want to remove children from their parents. 

Nothing to do with race, religion left or right, legal or illegal, just keeping children safe.

Anybody have an answer as to why they were removed?

Maybe I am being a bit naive but the media is quite happily showing us all sorts of riot pictures with (as usual) their own slant on the situation as bad news sells copy.

FB

I read it all started after a child was admitted for medical care with " a non accidental head injury" and social services went to remove five other children from a Romanian household. 

[oowee]

37 minutes ago, Flyboy1950 said:

I have been reading this thread with interest and it seems to me that the real reason for the start of this "Riot" is because a number of Roma children were removed by Social services (with the help of Police protection) to "A place of safety"  Nobody seems to want to address the reason why these children had to be removed from perceived danger by social services. These matters take a lot of soul searching by the authorities as they really dont want to remove children from their parents. 

Nothing to do with race, religion left or right, legal or illegal, just keeping children safe.

Anybody have an answer as to why they were removed?

Maybe I am being a bit naive but the media is quite happily showing us all sorts of riot pictures with (as usual) their own slant on the situation as bad news sells copy.

FB

This ^^^^^ although I wonder if the children going into care is simply an excuse or trigger. We had a summer of riots some years ago and none of them seemed to have any logic or reasoning behind them. If you have a group of disaffected bored youth a riot makes an exciting and different way to spend your evening. ? 

[Raja Clavata]

Warm weather, riots and locked threads on Pigeonwatch….

[12gauge82]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Warm weather, riots and locked threads on Pigeonwatch….

🤣🤣🤣

[Rewulf]

51 minutes ago, oowee said:

We had a summer of riots some years ago and none of them seemed to have any logic or reasoning behind them.

Theres always a reason, or rather more accurately an excuse.
2011 , the police shooting of a known gangster who had just picked up a gun.
A death in police custody.
Or the favourite now days, instigated by the 'far' right in some capacity.

What sets Leeds apart, is that none of these 'usual' suspects were to blame, just social services doing their job.

The word is , if the kids arent bought back by tonight, Leeds will burn again.

[Gordon R]

Children are taken into care for their own safety, cue a riot. I find it hard to understand the thinking behind turning over a Police car, burning a bus, followed by a full scale riot, as if this will somehow bring the children back.

If the children are returned, just how will Social Services monitor their well being? It won't happen. The view is that if Social Services revised their decision, the problem would go away. Bend to mob rule and forget the kids welfare. 

I can find little information as to just how Social Services became involved. Harking back to Mungler's Tom Daley scenario on another thread, someone alerted them to a child at serious risk. 

[janner]

Only a few years ago blonde children were being removed from their real roma parents and placed into care solely based on spurious complaints to the police that they were abductees,

The police were to quick to accept the social workers 'evidence' or lies as most honest, professional people would class deliberately not telling the truth as,

This state sponsored kidnapping was instigated on no more evidence than the colour of their hair and the total ignorance of genetics by the police and social workers.

I would hazard a guess that any spark of civil unrest is linked to those in power overstretching their legal positions in complex situations that they are not  qualified or properly trained to be involved in dealing with

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 13:58 by janner

[Gordon R]

Possibly the most bizarre post of the year - so far. Any links to back this slur on Social Workers?

Can you share your expert knowledge in this area? How did you arrive at the conclusion that they were not properly trained or qualified?

Edited Saturday at 14:18 by Gordon R

[sportsbob]

17 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Possibly the most bizarre post of the year - so far. Any links to back this slur on Social Workers?

Can you share your expert knowledge in this area? How did you arrive at the conclusion that they were not properly trained or qualified?

Not me that posted the comment but a quick search gave the evidence you requested.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/25/240865629/roma-children-removals-make-us-wonder-what-family-looks-like

[Gordon R]

I am aware of the situation elsewhere.

I was curious just how this was applied to Social Workers in Leeds. They stand accused of lacking legal backing, lack of training, lack of qualifications etc. 

Bit of a quantum leap in logic, although logic appears to be missing in janner's post

[oowee]

42 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Theres always a reason, or rather more accurately an excuse.
2011 , the police shooting of a known gangster who had just picked up a gun.
A death in police custody.
Or the favourite now days, instigated by the 'far' right in some capacity.

What sets Leeds apart, is that none of these 'usual' suspects were to blame, just social services doing their job.

The word is , if the kids arent bought back by tonight, Leeds will burn again.

If i remember right the summer of riots (maybe 2011 i cant remember) it started somewhere and then spread to other areas. Followed by lots of enquiry stuff and then some payments were awarded as appeasement for youth facilities and flower beds. 

For me two things drive this, youth dissatisfaction and youth aspiration for more. When we were kids we had nowt and would not know what a riot was, let alone have one. We had no aspiration for any other life because we were not aware of anything different. Everyone was in the same boat. 

Now there is a very visible divide between those that have and those that don't. 

[janner]

34 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Possibly the most bizarre post of the year - so far. Any links to back this slur on Social Workers?

Can you share your expert knowledge in this area? How did you arrive at the conclusion that they were not properly trained or qualified?

Have you been asleep for the last 14 years,

You dont need to be an expert to work out that underfunding or 'austerity' as the tory millionaires that bought it in called it has led to a massive increase in poverty and hence cases that need state involvement,

fact,

the stress and pressures of the deliberate of witholding the funds required has driven many long term professional social workers out of the service,

Fact,

Newly qualified staff are dealing with complex situations beyond their abilities,

***, how can a young graduate be expected to deal with situations that need the police to be present,

Fact,

The police are complaining that they are doing the job of the social services due to the deliberate underfunding of the social services,

Fact,

 Those that still work in the social services are dangerously overworked and under resoursed, most would like to leave and are worried about making mistakes due to stress,

Every single one has a workload in excess of what is deemed safe,

They are being put into sitations that they are not able to deal with,

What a relief that we have new hands on the levers of state to end the vile tory dogma led policies of underinvestment in our vital services

There are real victims of the deliberately cruel policies of the last lot of self entitled tory millionaire ministers,

There were many that needed the protection of a working social service but were failed due to lack of funding,

These included

children,

The aged and infirm,

The disabled,

Domestic abuse victims

And many more,

Good riddance to a bad bunch

 

 

 

[100milesaway]

3 hours ago, Flyboy1950 said:

I have been reading this thread with interest and it seems to me that the real reason for the start of this "Riot" is because a number of Roma children were removed by Social services (with the help of Police protection) to "A place of safety"  Nobody seems to want to address the reason why these children had to be removed from perceived danger by social services. These matters take a lot of soul searching by the authorities as they really dont want to remove children from their parents. 

Nothing to do with race, religion left or right, legal or illegal, just keeping children safe.

Anybody have an answer as to why they were removed?

Maybe I am being a bit naive but the media is quite happily showing us all sorts of riot pictures with (as usual) their own slant on the situation as bad news sells copy.

FB

A baby was either thrown or dropped out of a window.

from Auntie.

 

[clangerman]

29 minutes ago, 100milesaway said:

A baby was either thrown or dropped out of a window.

from Auntie.

 

as there has been no arrest even on suspicion clearly cobblers! 

[Westward]

44 minutes ago, janner said:

Have you been asleep for the last 14 years,

You dont need to be an expert to work out that underfunding or 'austerity' as the tory millionaires that bought it in called it has led to a massive increase in poverty and hence cases that need state involvement,

fact,

the stress and pressures of the deliberate of witholding the funds required has driven many long term professional social workers out of the service,

Fact,

Newly qualified staff are dealing with complex situations beyond their abilities,

***, how can a young graduate be expected to deal with situations that need the police to be present,

Fact,

The police are complaining that they are doing the job of the social services due to the deliberate underfunding of the social services,

Fact,

 Those that still work in the social services are dangerously overworked and under resoursed, most would like to leave and are worried about making mistakes due to stress,

Every single one has a workload in excess of what is deemed safe,

They are being put into sitations that they are not able to deal with,

What a relief that we have new hands on the levers of state to end the vile tory dogma led policies of underinvestment in our vital services

There are real victims of the deliberately cruel policies of the last lot of self entitled tory millionaire ministers,

There were many that needed the protection of a working social service but were failed due to lack of funding,

These included

children,

The aged and infirm,

The disabled,

Domestic abuse victims

And many more,

Good riddance to a bad bunch

 

 

 

Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

Starmer's barmy army, like all previous socialist numpty governments, will simply try to address problems by throwing money at them.

You solve nothing by taking from the producers and giving it to the non producers, you simply store up bigger problems for the next tory government to have to deal with.

[Rewulf]

49 minutes ago, janner said:

What a relief that we have new hands on the levers of state to end the vile tory dogma led policies of underinvestment in our vital services

Besides most of your 'facts' being basic assumptions , if I was you I'd wait till labour start performing before you put the cart before the horse.

BTW my sister is a social worker in child protection, and says its nothing to do with funding, or training, there just isn't enough people interested in becoming social workers.

[janner]

What horse,

Dont you realise the tories shot it,

As for folk not not wanting to become social workers,

Try and get your head around the reasons for this,

 

 

[Newbie to this]

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Besides most of your 'facts' being basic assumptions

Fact!

[old'un]

1 hour ago, janner said:

Have you been asleep for the last 14 years,

You dont need to be an expert to work out that underfunding or 'austerity' as the tory millionaires that bought it in called it has led to a massive increase in poverty and hence cases that need state involvement,

fact,

the stress and pressures of the deliberate of witholding the funds required has driven many long term professional social workers out of the service,

Fact,

Newly qualified staff are dealing with complex situations beyond their abilities,

***, how can a young graduate be expected to deal with situations that need the police to be present,

Fact,

The police are complaining that they are doing the job of the social services due to the deliberate underfunding of the social services,

Fact,

 Those that still work in the social services are dangerously overworked and under resoursed, most would like to leave and are worried about making mistakes due to stress,

Every single one has a workload in excess of what is deemed safe,

They are being put into sitations that they are not able to deal with,

What a relief that we have new hands on the levers of state to end the vile tory dogma led policies of underinvestment in our vital services

There are real victims of the deliberately cruel policies of the last lot of self entitled tory millionaire ministers,

There were many that needed the protection of a working social service but were failed due to lack of funding,

These included

children,

The aged and infirm,

The disabled,

Domestic abuse victims

And many more,

Good riddance to a bad bunch

 

 

 

never quite understood what the term ‘poverty’ means in the UK

[oowee]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Besides most of your 'facts' being basic assumptions , if I was you I'd wait till labour start performing before you put the cart before the horse.

BTW my sister is a social worker in child protection, and says its nothing to do with funding, or training, there just isn't enough people interested in becoming social workers.

 

How do you make the job more attractive? That would be funding then. No one wants the job because of the stress, the hours, the training, and the lack of reward. ? Ask @Lloyd90

7 minutes ago, old'un said:

never quite understood what the term ‘poverty’ means in the UK

No food, no heating no shelter. Have you seen that project trying to provide beds for kids? That's poverty. 

Edited Saturday at 16:30 by oowee

[oowee]

28 minutes ago, Westward said:

Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

Starmer's barmy army, like all previous socialist numpty governments, will simply try to address problems by throwing money at them.

You solve nothing by taking from the producers and giving it to the non producers, you simply store up bigger problems for the next tory government to have to deal with.

The Tories have tried to buy votes throwing money at pensions. They have tried to buy votes throwing money at tax reduction. They have totaly mismanaged the economy with the Truss budget that we are still paying for with higher govt interest rates. We have never had such a large tax burden as now. We have never had a situation where every service was close to or had collapsed.

Something has to change. I don't know if Starmer will achieve that but carrying on doing the tory thing was clearly not going to work. There is nothing in Starmers plan that has money being thrown anywhere. Many of us would like to see him being more ambitious with the cash.

It would take a lot of work to differentiate left of centre with right of centre govt.

 

[oowee]

 

[janner]

45 minutes ago, old'un said:

never quite understood what the term ‘poverty’ means in the 

Plenty of info out there if you want to educate yourself about the meaning of poverty,

Tbh,

I'm surprised that you havnt done so already.

One meaning is those that simply cannot afford what most of us take for granted as an everyday purchase is poverty,

Another way  is those that spend a large percentage of their disposable income on heating their homes to a reasonable level are classed as poor,

Personally,I dont think that owning an iphone or eating takeaways whilst pleading poverty is possible.

 

Edited Saturday at 17:09 by janner

[old'un]

17 minutes ago, janner said:

Plenty of info out there if you want to educate yourself about the meaning of poverty,

Tbh,

I'm surprised that you havnt done so already.

One meaning is those that simply cannot afford what most of us take for granted as an everyday purchase is poverty,

Another way  is those that spend a large percentage of their disposable income on heating their homes to a reasonable level are classed as poor,

Personally,I dont think that owning an iphone or eating takeaways whilst pleading poverty is possible.

 

My sister lives on a council estate, the woman next door is a single mom of three, she’s about 35 years old and as never worked, I have met her a few times when visiting my sisters, she seems a nice enough but is always saying they are living in “poverty” and cant afford this and that but looking at some of her possessions and lifestyle I would argue that claim.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, janner said:

Only a few years ago blonde children were being removed from their real roma parents and placed into care solely based on spurious complaints to the police that they were abductees,

The police were to quick to accept the social workers 'evidence' or lies as most honest, professional people would class deliberately not telling the truth as,

This state sponsored kidnapping was instigated on no more evidence than the colour of their hair and the total ignorance of genetics by the police and social workers.

I would hazard a guess that any spark of civil unrest is linked to those in power overstretching their legal positions in complex situations that they are not  qualified or properly trained to be involved in dealing with

 

 

 

 

From what I've been told, closer to the truth than many would be comfortable with.