Notting hill carnival

[Vince Green]

13 hours ago, Wymondley said:

I don't disagree with you, I've met people like this, however I've found most think "it's all the fault of Thatcher, the fat cat bosses, the Tory scum" or whoever else they've been told is to blame, because it's never them.

Having a benefit dependent underclass suits the agenda for the left.

 

This^^^

It's never their fault, the left cultivate and then feed a victim culture and generate a sense of injustice. 

[old man]

18 hours ago, Mungler said:

And this is it in a nutshell.

Factual statistics make young black males more likely to stab / get stabbed, yet they cannot be profiled or targeted. 

And anyone with their head screwed on, and not afraid to stare at the truth of it, will know that we’ll never get on top of knife crime without stop and search and a focus of searches targeted at the statistically more probable.

Again, it’s more 1984 where we are told to disbelieve the truth of it / what our own eyes tell us.

Dear oh dear, looking to find and target the real problem is always against someones rights?

This may well have been the idea in giving certain sections preference over others. Suddenly everyone wants a share and chaos ensues?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I see they caught those who stabbed the Young Mother ?? 3 Young Men 🤔

[Mungler]

On 27/08/2024 at 13:41, 12gauge82 said:

I see it differently. You see it to varying degrees from all walks of life. Take the benefits culture from some who don't work, mum and dad have never had a job, they don't drive, the place they're born has no employment and they know no different, they have no aspirations or hope for anything better, so their 'job' becomes claiming benefits. Is that their fault, or does society deserve some blame for not offering something better! 

The situation is obviously different regarding the carnival, but the point remains, much of the problems in that community is routed in poverty. That doesn't absolve those commiting crime of responsibility, but it's short sighted to solely blame that community and I would hope people would agree, plain wrong to blame them because of their ethnicity. 

That doesn’t hold.

Look at the Ugandan Indians - tossed out of their home country with what they could carry and arrived here with nothing. They’re not roaming in gangs or on the scrap heap. They appreciated a free education, applied hard work, avoided trouble with the police and their next generation prosperity was / is off the chart.

Ditto plenty of Chinese. Arrived here with nothing, pooled resources, worked hard, never in trouble and prospered.

The determining factors for poverty are stupidity, familial breakdown and acceptance / victimhood.

As has been mentioned by Trevor Philips, not having two (sober) parents stand over their kids forcing them to commit to their studies and not to go out roaming in a gang - well, it’s obvious isn’t it but no one dare say it. It’s all because there’s not a pool tables in youth clubs.

 

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

That doesn’t hold.

Look at the Ugandan Indians - tossed out of their home country with what they could carry and arrived here with nothing. They’re not roaming in gangs or on the scrap heap. They appreciated a free education, applied hard work, avoided trouble with the police and their next generation prosperity was / is off the chart.

Ditto plenty of Chinese. Arrived here with nothing, pooled resources, worked hard, never in trouble and prospered.

The determining factors for poverty are stupidity, familial breakdown and acceptance / victimhood.

As has been mentioned by Trevor Philips, not having two (sober) parents stand over their kids forcing them to commit to their studies and not to go out roaming in a gang - well, it’s obvious isn’t it but no one dare say it. It’s all because there’s not a pool tables in youth clubs.

 

I think it does hold.

As many have pointed out it's culturally linked. Different life experiences of their treatment by society has different outcomes. The UK has its own problems with unemployed youth who don't know how to work, caused by the removal of jobs in places like the North East and South Wales, with no alternative jobs avaliable, the result is a benifits culture. 

[Mungler]

‘Cultural’ is a BS word. Meaningless even.

An excuse for behaving a particular way in the face of other free choices.

And in other news, Germany are waking up to what the stats and their eyes have been telling them for two decades but the powers that be have told them to deny else be labelled racists. Edit: from the Spectator.

.

Edited August 29 by Mungler

[12gauge82]

26 minutes ago, Mungler said:

‘Cultural’ is a BS word. Meaningless even.

An excuse for behaving a particular way in the face of other free choices.

And in other news, Germany are waking up to what the stats and their eyes have been telling them for two decades but the powers that be have told them to deny else be labelled racists. Edit: from the Spectator.

.

Is it? 

So explain why foreign nationals commit more crime than native Germans? 

[Penelope]

7 hours ago, Mungler said:

That doesn’t hold.

Look at the Ugandan Indians - tossed out of their home country with what they could carry and arrived here with nothing. They’re not roaming in gangs or on the scrap heap. They appreciated a free education, applied hard work, avoided trouble with the police and their next generation prosperity was / is off the chart.

Ditto plenty of Chinese. Arrived here with nothing, pooled resources, worked hard, never in trouble and prospered.

The determining factors for poverty are stupidity, familial breakdown and acceptance / victimhood.

As has been mentioned by Trevor Philips, not having two (sober) parents stand over their kids forcing them to commit to their studies and not to go out roaming in a gang - well, it’s obvious isn’t it but no one dare say it. It’s all because there’s not a pool tables in youth clubs.

 

Good points, all.

I have mentioned this before, but many years ago I watched a programme on TV about some schools in Hackney that were looking to bring professional blackmen into schools to give talks as role models. Local Labour acitivists said it was discriminatory against wimin, so the scheme was dropped.

 

That poxy ideology again!!

[Mice!]

54 minutes ago, Penelope said:

Good points, all.

I have mentioned this before, but many years ago I watched a programme on TV about some schools in Hackney that were looking to bring professional blackmen into schools to give talks as role models. Local Labour acitivists said it was discriminatory against wimin, so the scheme was dropped.

 

That poxy ideology again!!

Should have been a very easy solution,  bring in black women as well.

[Penelope]

49 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Should have been a very easy solution,  bring in black women as well.

Yes, but the scheme was to be directed at young balck males.

[Wymondley]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Should have been a very easy solution,  bring in black women as well.

Role model?

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

‘Cultural’ is a BS word. Meaningless even.

An excuse for behaving a particular way in the face of other free choices.

And in other news, Germany are waking up to what the stats and their eyes have been telling them for two decades but the powers that be have told them to deny else be labelled racists. Edit: from the Spectator.

.

Germany has come to its senses

Holland has come to its senses

Sweden now has negative migration 

Norway has massively strengthened is border 

Now Poland as well

Just a question - if they are not going to Germany, Holland, Sweden, Norway or Poland where are they going to head for?  Surely not here?

[Penelope]

42 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

Role model?

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Penelope said:

Yes, but the scheme was to be directed at young balck males.

I understand that, but just a tweak and it could have been made to work.

Watching the football programme South of the river,  the way those families and kids lived was like another country,  with the whole families only hope being their kid made it as a professional footballer,  and that is a very slim hope.

1 hour ago, Wymondley said:

Role model?

Ha ha, maths tutor 👍🤣🤣

[old man]

7 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think it does hold.

As many have pointed out it's culturally linked. Different life experiences of their treatment by society has different outcomes. The UK has its own problems with unemployed youth who don't know how to work, caused by the removal of jobs in places like the North East and South Wales, with no alternative jobs avaliable, the result is a benifits culture. 

There are also a lot that look at parents and relatives outside Costa's and think that will do for me.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

I understand that, but just a tweak and it could have been made to work.

Watching the football programme South of the river,  the way those families and kids lived was like another country,  with the whole families only hope being their kid made it as a professional footballer,  and that is a very slim hope.

Ha ha, maths tutor 👍🤣🤣

The thing was, Labour didn't want it to work.

[Raja Clavata]

8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think it does hold.

As many have pointed out it's culturally linked. Different life experiences of their treatment by society has different outcomes. The UK has its own problems with unemployed youth who don't know how to work, caused by the removal of jobs in places like the North East and South Wales, with no alternative jobs avaliable, the result is a benifits culture. 

I'm with you on this.

BTW, here's what OpenAi has to "say" on the topic:

Addressing the issue of why young Black males are often associated with knife crime involves understanding a complex interplay of social, economic, cultural, and environmental factors. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity, as it involves not just statistics, but the lived experiences of individuals and communities. The factors contributing to involvement in knife crime are not specific to race, but they can disproportionately affect certain groups due to broader systemic issues. Here are some key factors:

1. Socioeconomic Factors

• Poverty and Inequality: Many young people involved in knife crime come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. Poverty can lead to limited access to education, employment opportunities, and recreational activities, which can increase the likelihood of engaging in criminal behavior.
• Unemployment: High levels of unemployment among young people, particularly in certain urban areas, can lead to feelings of frustration, hopelessness, and a lack of purpose, which can contribute to involvement in criminal activities as a way to gain status or income.

2. Social Environment

• Exposure to Violence: Growing up in environments where violence is normalized, or where there is a lack of positive role models, can influence young people to carry weapons for protection or as a way of asserting power.
• Peer Pressure and Gang Culture: Knife crime is often associated with gang activity. Young people may carry knives to fit in with peers, protect themselves, or gain respect within a group. Gangs can offer a sense of belonging and identity, particularly in the absence of other supportive structures.
• Fear and Protection: In areas with high crime rates, young people may carry knives out of fear for their safety, believing that it is necessary to protect themselves from threats.

3. Institutional Factors

• Educational Disparities: Disengagement from the education system can lead to young people becoming involved in criminal activities. Schools in disadvantaged areas often face challenges such as underfunding, overcrowded classrooms, and a lack of support services, which can contribute to higher dropout rates.
• Discrimination and Marginalization: Systemic racism and discrimination can lead to the marginalization of young Black males, affecting their opportunities and interactions with institutions such as schools, law enforcement, and the job market. This can create a sense of alienation and frustration, contributing to antisocial behavior.

4. Cultural and Media Influences

• Representation in Media: Media often disproportionately highlights crimes involving young Black males, which can perpetuate stereotypes and stigmatize the entire community. This can also influence how young people see themselves and their place in society.
• Cultural Norms: In some subcultures, carrying a knife might be seen as a symbol of strength, survival, or masculinity. This can be reinforced by music, social media, and other forms of cultural expression that glorify violence or depict it as a legitimate response to challenges.

5. Lack of Support Services

• Mental Health and Counseling: Limited access to mental health services and counseling can leave young people without the necessary support to cope with trauma, stress, or other issues, increasing the likelihood of resorting to violence.
• Youth Programs: A lack of positive outlets for energy and creativity, such as sports, arts, or community programs, can lead to boredom and negative behaviors. Youth programs that offer mentorship, skills training, and constructive activities can help divert young people away from crime.

6. Policing and Criminal Justice

• Stop and Search Policies: Some policing strategies, such as stop and search, disproportionately target young Black males, which can lead to mistrust of law enforcement and further entrenchment in criminal behavior. If young people feel unfairly targeted, they may be more likely to resist or rebel against authorities.
• Criminal Justice System: Disparities in how the criminal justice system treats young Black males compared to other groups can exacerbate feelings of injustice and contribute to a cycle of crime and incarceration.

Conclusion

While these factors can contribute to why some young Black males are involved in knife crime, it's crucial to recognize that the issue is not inherent to race but rather a result of broader societal challenges that disproportionately impact certain communities. Solutions should focus on addressing the root causes, such as improving educational opportunities, providing economic support, fostering positive social environments, and addressing systemic inequalities, rather than stigmatizing or stereotyping entire groups.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

But put quite simply, it is ILLEGAL, UNSOCIABLE BEHAVIOUR and should be stamped upon, not treated like the fools do currently.

[Penelope]

37 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But put quite simply, it is ILLEGAL, UNSOCIABLE BEHAVIOUR and should be stamped upon, not treated like the fools do currently.

And would be if it were someone else.

[old man]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'm with you on this.

BTW, here's what OpenAi has to "say" on the topic:

Addressing the issue of why young Black males are often associated with knife crime involves understanding a complex interplay of social, economic, cultural, and environmental factors. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity, as it involves not just statistics, but the lived experiences of individuals and communities. The factors contributing to involvement in knife crime are not specific to race, but they can disproportionately affect certain groups due to broader systemic issues. Here are some key factors:

1. Socioeconomic Factors

• Poverty and Inequality: Many young people involved in knife crime come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. Poverty can lead to limited access to education, employment opportunities, and recreational activities, which can increase the likelihood of engaging in criminal behavior.
• Unemployment: High levels of unemployment among young people, particularly in certain urban areas, can lead to feelings of frustration, hopelessness, and a lack of purpose, which can contribute to involvement in criminal activities as a way to gain status or income.

2. Social Environment

• Exposure to Violence: Growing up in environments where violence is normalized, or where there is a lack of positive role models, can influence young people to carry weapons for protection or as a way of asserting power.
• Peer Pressure and Gang Culture: Knife crime is often associated with gang activity. Young people may carry knives to fit in with peers, protect themselves, or gain respect within a group. Gangs can offer a sense of belonging and identity, particularly in the absence of other supportive structures.
• Fear and Protection: In areas with high crime rates, young people may carry knives out of fear for their safety, believing that it is necessary to protect themselves from threats.

3. Institutional Factors

• Educational Disparities: Disengagement from the education system can lead to young people becoming involved in criminal activities. Schools in disadvantaged areas often face challenges such as underfunding, overcrowded classrooms, and a lack of support services, which can contribute to higher dropout rates.
• Discrimination and Marginalization: Systemic racism and discrimination can lead to the marginalization of young Black males, affecting their opportunities and interactions with institutions such as schools, law enforcement, and the job market. This can create a sense of alienation and frustration, contributing to antisocial behavior.

4. Cultural and Media Influences

• Representation in Media: Media often disproportionately highlights crimes involving young Black males, which can perpetuate stereotypes and stigmatize the entire community. This can also influence how young people see themselves and their place in society.
• Cultural Norms: In some subcultures, carrying a knife might be seen as a symbol of strength, survival, or masculinity. This can be reinforced by music, social media, and other forms of cultural expression that glorify violence or depict it as a legitimate response to challenges.

5. Lack of Support Services

• Mental Health and Counseling: Limited access to mental health services and counseling can leave young people without the necessary support to cope with trauma, stress, or other issues, increasing the likelihood of resorting to violence.
• Youth Programs: A lack of positive outlets for energy and creativity, such as sports, arts, or community programs, can lead to boredom and negative behaviors. Youth programs that offer mentorship, skills training, and constructive activities can help divert young people away from crime.

6. Policing and Criminal Justice

• Stop and Search Policies: Some policing strategies, such as stop and search, disproportionately target young Black males, which can lead to mistrust of law enforcement and further entrenchment in criminal behavior. If young people feel unfairly targeted, they may be more likely to resist or rebel against authorities.
• Criminal Justice System: Disparities in how the criminal justice system treats young Black males compared to other groups can exacerbate feelings of injustice and contribute to a cycle of crime and incarceration.

Conclusion

While these factors can contribute to why some young Black males are involved in knife crime, it's crucial to recognize that the issue is not inherent to race but rather a result of broader societal challenges that disproportionately impact certain communities. Solutions should focus on addressing the root causes, such as improving educational opportunities, providing economic support, fostering positive social environments, and addressing systemic inequalities, rather than stigmatizing or stereotyping entire groups.

That covers all but the ones determined to murder others for another reason?

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'm with you on this.

BTW, here's what OpenAi has to "say" on the topic:

Addressing the issue of why young Black males are often associated with knife crime involves understanding a complex interplay of social, economic, cultural, and environmental factors. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity, as it involves not just statistics, but the lived experiences of individuals and communities. The factors contributing to involvement in knife crime are not specific to race, but they can disproportionately affect certain groups due to broader systemic issues. Here are some key factors:

1. Socioeconomic Factors

• Poverty and Inequality: Many young people involved in knife crime come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. Poverty can lead to limited access to education, employment opportunities, and recreational activities, which can increase the likelihood of engaging in criminal behavior.
• Unemployment: High levels of unemployment among young people, particularly in certain urban areas, can lead to feelings of frustration, hopelessness, and a lack of purpose, which can contribute to involvement in criminal activities as a way to gain status or income.

2. Social Environment

• Exposure to Violence: Growing up in environments where violence is normalized, or where there is a lack of positive role models, can influence young people to carry weapons for protection or as a way of asserting power.
• Peer Pressure and Gang Culture: Knife crime is often associated with gang activity. Young people may carry knives to fit in with peers, protect themselves, or gain respect within a group. Gangs can offer a sense of belonging and identity, particularly in the absence of other supportive structures.
• Fear and Protection: In areas with high crime rates, young people may carry knives out of fear for their safety, believing that it is necessary to protect themselves from threats.

3. Institutional Factors

• Educational Disparities: Disengagement from the education system can lead to young people becoming involved in criminal activities. Schools in disadvantaged areas often face challenges such as underfunding, overcrowded classrooms, and a lack of support services, which can contribute to higher dropout rates.
• Discrimination and Marginalization: Systemic racism and discrimination can lead to the marginalization of young Black males, affecting their opportunities and interactions with institutions such as schools, law enforcement, and the job market. This can create a sense of alienation and frustration, contributing to antisocial behavior.

4. Cultural and Media Influences

• Representation in Media: Media often disproportionately highlights crimes involving young Black males, which can perpetuate stereotypes and stigmatize the entire community. This can also influence how young people see themselves and their place in society.
• Cultural Norms: In some subcultures, carrying a knife might be seen as a symbol of strength, survival, or masculinity. This can be reinforced by music, social media, and other forms of cultural expression that glorify violence or depict it as a legitimate response to challenges.

5. Lack of Support Services

• Mental Health and Counseling: Limited access to mental health services and counseling can leave young people without the necessary support to cope with trauma, stress, or other issues, increasing the likelihood of resorting to violence.
• Youth Programs: A lack of positive outlets for energy and creativity, such as sports, arts, or community programs, can lead to boredom and negative behaviors. Youth programs that offer mentorship, skills training, and constructive activities can help divert young people away from crime.

6. Policing and Criminal Justice

• Stop and Search Policies: Some policing strategies, such as stop and search, disproportionately target young Black males, which can lead to mistrust of law enforcement and further entrenchment in criminal behavior. If young people feel unfairly targeted, they may be more likely to resist or rebel against authorities.
• Criminal Justice System: Disparities in how the criminal justice system treats young Black males compared to other groups can exacerbate feelings of injustice and contribute to a cycle of crime and incarceration.

Conclusion

While these factors can contribute to why some young Black males are involved in knife crime, it's crucial to recognize that the issue is not inherent to race but rather a result of broader societal challenges that disproportionately impact certain communities. Solutions should focus on addressing the root causes, such as improving educational opportunities, providing economic support, fostering positive social environments, and addressing systemic inequalities, rather than stigmatizing or stereotyping entire groups.

I've looked at that twice now and it just reads like a long list of excuses with no solutions. 

If young black lads/men are stabbing each other, I couldn't care less about the cultural side of things, I carried a Swiss army type knife for years, right through school, I didn't stab anyone. 

It's nothing to do with mental health or a lack of opportunities,  they are carrying knives because others are carrying,  and anyone carrying is doing so because they know there's very chance the police will stop them, because if they do get stopped they'll shout Racism.

There are football and Rugby clubs everywhere all across the country, plus many other sports, Judo for instanceis cheap as chips to get involved with, anyone can be involved with sport.

If there are stabbings happening regularly in an area then the police need to be able and stop and search people in that area, if they happen to be mostly black lads then so be it, if it was happening where I live and the majority of kids getting searched were white then so be it, I'd rather that than the behavior just be ignored. 

 

[Raja Clavata]

12 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I've looked at that twice now and it just reads like a long list of excuses with no solutions. 

If young black lads/men are stabbing each other, I couldn't care less about the cultural side of things, I carried a Swiss army type knife for years, right through school, I didn't stab anyone. 

It's nothing to do with mental health or a lack of opportunities,  they are carrying knives because others are carrying,  and anyone carrying is doing so because they know there's very chance the police will stop them, because if they do get stopped they'll shout Racism.

There are football and Rugby clubs everywhere all across the country, plus many other sports, Judo for instanceis cheap as chips to get involved with, anyone can be involved with sport.

If there are stabbings happening regularly in an area then the police need to be able and stop and search people in that area, if they happen to be mostly black lads then so be it, if it was happening where I live and the majority of kids getting searched were white then so be it, I'd rather that than the behavior just be ignored. 

 

I just posted what ChatGPT had to "say", I'm not endorsing all of it but it it's even obvious to a dumb LLM that it's a complex issue.

You seem to be advocating two tier policing.

33 minutes ago, old man said:

That covers all but the ones determined to murder others for another reason?

Are you referring to religious/ideological motivations?

[Yellow Bear]

7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You seem to be advocating two tier policing.

 

 We already have 2 tier policing.   Stop and search has been virtually stopped on non whites in most areas

 

 

[clangerman]

stop and search is the usual token gesture to keep the gullible quite all it achieves is an increase of knife sales 

[Mice!]

29 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You seem to be advocating two tier policing.

I'm advocating if there's a problem then deal with it, don't avoid an issue because it'll upset the sweethearts carrying knives and stabbing each other, no point pushing stop and search in areas its not needed, it's needed in areas where its needed, and if it starts with the black lads so be it 

I was quite shocked the last time I went into Wigan on a night out, good few years back now, but Kings Street had temporary airport style metal detectors set up at both ends of the street with security,  just like that everyone is being checked, no matter your colour.