Following on from the Budget, why shouldn't Farmers pay inheritance tax like the rest of us?

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

You know exactly what I meant. 
It can’t be described as a loophole if what the farmers were doing was legal, and allowable by government policy. The policy existed for a reason, and has been changed due to a wealth envious political party. 
Changing that policy smacks of spite to me; allowing farmers to do what any other person in business would do, then shutting that door knowing damn fine it will render some farms unworkable, whilst claiming it won’t effect the majority of farms! 

I don’t care how wealthy some farmers are, I genuinely couldn’t care less. There are small trundling along farms here which have been passed down through generations, but that may come to an end following this.
I know many at both ends of the scale ( my BIL was one of those at the poorer end ) and I’m fully aware of the hours of daily trudge they put in, 365 days a year, because that’s what they do, and they love it.
 I think they deserve every penny they get. I wouldn’t do it, nor would any of those spineless politicians who think up policy and the civil servants who make it possible.
Spite, that’s all it is. 
 

 

+ 1 - even to the BIL, except he is still farming.

[Scully]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

+ 1 - even to the BIL, except he is still farming.

Good for him. Mine inherited a lot of debt on his parents farm but tried to work his way out of it. It didn’t work and he went bankrupt, which led to a nervous breakdown. He’s still in farming, but employed now. 

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

You know exactly what I meant. 
It can’t be described as a loophole if what the farmers were doing was legal, and allowable by government policy. The policy existed for a reason, and has been changed due to a wealth envious political party. 
Changing that policy smacks of spite to me; allowing farmers to do what any other person in business would do, then shutting that door knowing damn fine it will render some farms unworkable, whilst claiming it won’t effect the majority of farms! 

I don’t care how wealthy some farmers are, I genuinely couldn’t care less. There are small trundling along farms here which have been passed down through generations, but that may come to an end following this.
I know many at both ends of the scale ( my BIL was one of those at the poorer end ) and I’m fully aware of the hours of daily trudge they put in, 365 days a year, because that’s what they do, and they love it.
 I think they deserve every penny they get. I wouldn’t do it, nor would any of those spineless politicians who think up policy and the civil servants who make it possible.
Spite, that’s all it is. 
 

 

It's not aimed at farmers. It's aimed at those that buy land purely to avoid IHT. Unfortunately tax is a blunt instrument. The income for farms is mostly pretty desperate currently we are out of the EU and the govt has not replaced the subsidies that may have been applicable. That said farming is a seasonal business the more recent income falls coming (apparently) on the back of exceptional highs for some farms 2022/23.

Tax should be fair for all but it should also be equal for all. If farming is a special case then the question needs to be asked why and what we need to do to improve it. We cannot and should not be subsidising business for the sake of nostalgia.

Maybe the £5bn that labour are putting into farming will help in the short term but we should not be propping up lame business. There must be somewhere a case for food security but I doubt it's to be found in small family farms.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/farm-business-income/farm-business-income-by-type-of-farm-in-england-202324

 

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It's not aimed at farmers. It's aimed at those that buy land purely to avoid IHT. Unfortunately tax is a blunt instrument. The income for farms is mostly pretty desperate currently we are out of the EU and the govt has not replaced the subsidies that may have been applicable. That said farming is a seasonal business the more recent income falls coming (apparently) on the back of exceptional highs for some farms 2022/23.

Tax should be fair for all but it should also be equal for all. If farming is a special case then the question needs to be asked why and what we need to do to improve it. We cannot and should not be subsidising business for the sake of nostalgia.

Maybe the £5bn that labour are putting into farming will help in the short term but we should not be propping up lame business. There must be somewhere a case for food security but I doubt it's to be found in small family farms.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/farm-business-income/farm-business-income-by-type-of-farm-in-england-202324

 

That is pure Labour nonsense, all of it.

I don’t even know where to start. 

[shaun4860]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

That is pure Labour nonsense, all of it.

I don’t even know where to start. 

You would be wasting your breath.

Lives in a different world to the rest of us 🤷🏻‍♂️

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Surprise, surprise, the BBC Verify Service used a Labour Activist to check on the Farm Tax situation.

Oh come on BBC, surely you could spot the problem with this one?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/20/bbc-verify-used-labour-activist-to-back-farm-iht-claims/

[JohnfromUK]

It may be difficult for them to find someone; I thought everyone in the BBC was a Labour 'activist'.  🤣

[Newbie to this]

47 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It may be difficult for them to find someone; I thought everyone in the BBC was a Labour 'activist'.  🤣

You might be thinking of the civil service 

[Agriv8]

Just looking at the bbc on this if it was the conservative gov that had done this what would the narrative be.

i think it’s stuck between not being able to blame Labour so it has to find a way to blame the farmers.

Agriv8

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surprise, surprise, the BBC Verify Service used a Labour Activist to check on the Farm Tax situation.

Oh come on BBC, surely you could spot the problem with this one?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/20/bbc-verify-used-labour-activist-to-back-farm-iht-claims/

The Biased Broadcasting Corp will side with the left. I'm surprised they didn't use Reeves let alone an activist

[TIGHTCHOKE]

From the Telegraph;

"Labour came to office promising to place growth at the heart of everything it does and yet its rhetoric is so far not matched by its actions. Ministers will say that given time the Budget measures will do what is required; but when the bills for public sector failure are being dumped on businesses and farmers it is hard to see how.

Even the Office for Budget Responsibility has predicted that growth will remain sluggish for years to come and the latest inflation figures have put paid to another early cut in interest rates. Revivals of the 1970s may be all the rage, but stagflation is one comeback to be avoided at all costs."

[JohnfromUK]

 

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

"Labour came to office promising to place growth at the heart of everything it does and yet its rhetoric is so far not matched by its actions.

I don't know - they are managing a spectacular job of growing borrowing;

"Government borrowing was much higher than expected in October, as debt interest payments hit a record high and public sector pay rises contributed to higher spending."

And also significant growth in inflation;

"The inflation rate, which charts the rising cost of living, increased to 2.3% in October."

[Scully]

13 hours ago, oowee said:

It's not aimed at farmers. It's aimed at those that buy land purely to avoid IHT. Unfortunately tax is a blunt instrument. The income for farms is mostly pretty desperate currently we are out of the EU and the govt has not replaced the subsidies that may have been applicable. That said farming is a seasonal business the more recent income falls coming (apparently) on the back of exceptional highs for some farms 2022/23.

Tax should be fair for all but it should also be equal for all. If farming is a special case then the question needs to be asked why and what we need to do to improve it. We cannot and should not be subsidising business for the sake of nostalgia.

Maybe the £5bn that labour are putting into farming will help in the short term but we should not be propping up lame business. There must be somewhere a case for food security but I doubt it's to be found in small family farms.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/farm-business-income/farm-business-income-by-type-of-farm-in-england-202324

 

Of course it’s aimed at farmers! There was a lot of confused farmers in London the other day then if it’s not aimed at them! 
Your post above centres around farming and its incomes and EU subsidies, so how can it not be about farming?

First subsidies were introduced after the war in the late 40’s, and we weren’t in the EU then, and I believe in their current form in the early 60’s, and we weren’t in the EU then either. Nothing to do with your beloved EU. 
The cost of what it takes to produce affordable food has nothing to do with farmers, and everything to do with the petro-chemical industries and the supermarkets which set prices. 
If production costs rise then farmers have to take that on the chin; they cannot pass on the cost of their produce like other businesses because prices are fixed by outside influences, hence the subsidies. 
Getting rid of some farms won’t make food cheaper to produce ( when has that EVER worked?) because costs of production will continue to rise…they have never come down. 
Relying on importation of cheap food isn’t my idea of food security. 
 

[Penelope]

16 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

One quite illuminating point on this;

Total Gov't tax revenue is around £790 B a year.

Of that total IHT revenue is around £7 B a year or 1% of total.

Of the £7B IHT apparently £0.52 B will come from farms, so rather under 0.1% of the total.  Note that the NHS would consume all of that £520M in 2.5 days.

So we are to bankrupt a large number of farms for an additional 0.1% of tax.  It is either economic madness or pure socialist dogma of jealousy and spite against hard working people (but as we know Kier Starmer doesn't know what a 'working person' is - and many of the Labour party don't even seem to know what work is).

It would not surprise me if there was a deeper agenda involved.

[oowee]

 

[Penelope]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

It may be difficult for them to find someone; I thought everyone in the BBC was a Labour 'activist'.  🤣

This. 

They are the propaganda arm. I worked in TV for 5 years. I WAS the only employee that was not of the left.

[Agriv8]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

The Biased Broadcasting Corp will side with the left. I'm surprised they didn't use Reeves let alone an activist

More to back this up in the daily fail including that they/she/labour did not conduct an impact assessment !

Mail online

Agriv8

 

[Pushandpull]

If you look at an "anti" site with BTL comments, e.g. Raptor Persecution UK, you will find that the commentators are convinced the BBC is totally biased towards the "huntin/shootin/fishin/landowning" classes !

[London Best]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

 

Watching that video through my eyes, I thought that Mr. Clarkson outsmarted the interviewer, simply by answering the questions.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

Watching that video through my eyes, I thought that Mr. Clarkson outsmarted the interviewer, simply by answering the questions.

I would agree he did and confirmed the reasons for the tax change. 

[johnphilip]

Sorry I just have to share, be rude not to😉😉

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[Penelope]

[Agriv8]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Watching that video through my eyes, I thought that Mr. Clarkson outsmarted the interviewer, simply by answering the questions.

There is a certain honesty about his answer ! I agreed I think I have seen this mentioned elsewhere where that he bought his farm as it had a pheasant shoot! 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

30 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

There is a certain honesty about his answer ! I agreed I think I have seen this mentioned elsewhere where that he bought his farm as it had a pheasant shoot! 

Shoot and tax were his stated reasons I believe.