Fibre wad Steel carts

[BobbyH]

With all this HSE nonsense going on, I have a question for the knowledgable on here.

Why isn’t there any fibre wad steel cartridges in the market? Does the wad disintegrate when it’s shot with steel??

[rbrowning2]

Both Jocker and Gamebore did or are offering them it’s just down to availability one assumes, then price.

 

[BobbyH]

Ahhh I see! I didn’t know if steel couldn’t be used in fibre?

[eightlittlebits]

I believed it was to do with containing the shot and preventing the steel shot potentially contacting and scoring the barrels. I understood this was why they were all working on the bio-degradable wads with varying levels of success.

Would be curious to know if there's any reason that the shot couldn't sit in a simpler "cup" on top of the fibre wad to contain it, rather than a full specialised wad. Would surely be cheaper than a full wad?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Clay and Game had these years ago

[enfieldspares]

Steel on steel contact if the shot were nit fully enclosed would be the result. Steel shot is actually iron but, nevertheless, allowing the shot and barrel to be "naked" on each other isn't good. Even in army and navy guns the steel cased projectiles (which won't be moving about as would lose shotgun sho)t mostly have copper driving bands which are what engage with the rifling in the barrel.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, So when they ban Lead for Steel there will be Plastic Wads scattered all over the Country Side ??

[eightlittlebits]

20 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, So when they ban Lead for Steel there will be Plastic Wads scattered all over the Country Side ??

No, there will be "bio-wads" that degrade in an unknown timeframe sometime in the future. Costing £440/1000...

Of course, they took into account the "economic impact", ignoring anyone that actually buys cartridges...

All in the name of progress, or at least in the name of protecting commercial game shoots.

[oldypigeonpopper]

13 minutes ago, eightlittlebits said:

No, there will be "bio-wads" that degrade in an unknown timeframe sometime in the future. Costing £440/1000...

Of course, they took into account the "economic impact", ignoring anyone that actually buys cartridges...

All in the name of progress, or at least in the name of protecting commercial game shoots.

Hello, How long do Bio Wads take to degrade ??

[Smudger687]

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, How long do Bio Wads take to degrade ??

The current biowad offerings from Bioammo, B&P, Hull and Lyalvale are not biodegradeable in real world conditions. Gamebore and Eley's are biodegradeable, and obviously any paper based wad will be fine also. 

I had barrel scoring occur immediately with Eley's biowad, the Gamebore wad seems to be exceptionally sensitive to moisture which makes me wary of them, and the Clay & Game fibre cup does work but is a poor performer compared to a plaswad, it needs much more powder to get the velocities up and the patterns are much more erratic. 

The 2nd generation Joker wads look good though and they'll be available to homeloaders at some point. 

[London Best]

56 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, So when they ban Lead for Steel there will be Plastic Wads scattered all over the Country Side ??

Too late, there already is. 
Due to the idiots who have been buying plastic wads for the last fifty years.

[rbrowning2]

These are the Jocker wads, similar concept to the Gamebore type that Clay and Game sell. Compared to injection moulding they must be expensive to manufacture.  Five additional years to find a proper replacement to the good old faithful lead shot fibre wads at comparable cost. 

Edited 19 hours ago by rbrowning2

[BobbyH]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Too late, there already is. 
Due to the idiots who have been buying plastic wads for the last fifty years.

Don’t see why they are idiots? Personal choice isn’t it?

I buy some plastic wads…Does that make me an idiot then?

[London Best]

2 hours ago, BobbyH said:

Don’t see why they are idiots? Personal choice isn’t it?

I buy some plastic wads…Does that make me an idiot then?

Only if you scatter them about when the gun goes off.

[jall25]

6 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, How long do Bio Wads take to degrade ??

The day after we shoot they are degrading into little slug like blobs 

I rate steel - no dog in the fight - but being using it all year to great success 

[Sweet11-87]

 

Picked up a fair few plastic wads from steel over the years think I’m yet to see one where shots not rubbed through and made contact with the barrel either between the petal or just plain straight through it. 

Even if  it’s scoring the absolute life out of it. Who has or knows someone who’s scored a barrel to failure or even diminished performance?

damascus and old English might have finally reach the days of retirement but where do we draw the line? Flintlocks?

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Sweet11-87

[PeterHenry]

7 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

 

Picked up a fair few plastic wads from steel over the years think I’m yet to see one where shots not rubbed through and made contact with the barrel either between the petal or just plain straight through it. 

Even if  it’s scoring the absolute life out of it. Who has or knows someone who’s scored a barrel to failure or even diminished performance?

damascus and old English might have finally reach the days of retirement but where do we draw the line? Flintlocks?

 

 

I've found wads with holes in them, and I have guns with scored barrels - albeit one that still shoot fine. But then I've pulled back on using steel shot in those guns. True, shotguns are not precision firearms - but I suspect they comes with polished bores for more than aesthetic reasons.

The thing that irritates me, is that with lead - in order for you to damage a gun, either the cartridges would have to be a) massively overloaded, b) a fault with the gun, c) user error / blocked barrels, etc.

Now, with steel - you can fire a gun in perfect condition, with 'appropriate' cartridges, and no user error - and it's pot luck if it's damaged or not.

I'm absolutely fine with using steel from a killing perspective - and I got on equally well with copper bullets when I was deerstalking last weekend. I just don't appreciate ruining decent guns, and then worse, cartridge manufacturers wriggling out of it with a disclaimer on the side of the box.