Iaindp Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Hi All, In my quest for a ESS / Cocker pup, I visited a dealer today in Bedfordshire called M.P. Whelan. He runs a kennel called www.pupsonline.co.uk and wondered if any one can recommend him. Personally, I'm apprehensive as I'm new to dogs and reconciling what I was told today with some of the advice I'd been given on here and elsewhere is difficult, although I'm sure that all advice is correct but just that oppinions are different! i.e. The dealer was not a KC registered dealer (although he used to be but fell out with the KC) nor does he register his pups with the KC although they ARE registered with petlovers (I think). The pups are not vet checked before sale - although there are signs advising that this isn done by the new owner within 12 hours by a vet. He did not have the pedigree papers for the cocker I was looking at on him, but said that he would send it on within 4 weeks (although he did have the papers for other dogs showing sire and dam) The dealer injects the dogs himself for Parvo etc etc rather than use a vet (Is this right?) He had a number of different breeds for sale. Labs, ESS, Cockers, Terriers, Rotweilers etc. The website states that this is NOT a puppy farm although the KC's website says that this is one of the signs. He told me that cockers are generally more docile than spriongers. Isn't this the worng way around? He told me that the cocker I was looking at was bred from FTchs but didn't know the names of the parents (these weren't on the handwritten records of injections etc that he produced). Apart from that, the pups looked well cared for, very healthy, and living in a clean and safe environment. I thought I'd try to get some advice from you guys before committing to anything with the dealer. All advice gratefully received! regards Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russuk Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Not with a barge pole. Get to a proper working breeder, with a passion and knowledge of the breed, especially the working side. Like this one..... http://www.gundoguk.netfirms.com/puppies.htm who have a litter or proper working ESS' available at the moment Lots here.. http://www.champdogs.co.uk/guided/all_engl...l_breeders.html I'm sure there's people on here who can give you some bloodlines to look into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 as above go and look some where eles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Hi I have dropped you a PM Cheers Ian But as above, dont bother with this guy, there is much better out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 http://www.gundogfinder.com/?q=dogs-for-sa...d=3&age=pup Also try this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iaindp Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Thanks for your help guys - responses pretty much as I'd expected - just needed confirmation. Thanks again Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 He sounds well dodgy mate LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 If you are a professional breeder, you need to be KC registered if you want to be taken seriously. The last time I heard the, "I am not registered with the KC as I fell out with them" story, was from a woman at a Puppy Farm at Lenham near Ashford. She was closed down about 3 months after our visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iaindp Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 If you are a professional breeder, you need to be KC registered if you want to be taken seriously. The last time I heard the, "I am not registered with the KC as I fell out with them" story, was from a woman at a Puppy Farm at Lenham near Ashford. She was closed down about 3 months after our visit. Do the KC actually check these people out then and if so, what kind of stuff are they looking for in a breeder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 One to steer clear of Iain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 If you are a professional breeder, you need to be KC registered if you want to be taken seriously. The last time I heard the, "I am not registered with the KC as I fell out with them" story, was from a woman at a Puppy Farm at Lenham near Ashford. She was closed down about 3 months after our visit. Ditto. My assistant has sued two different breeders who were not Kennel Club Registered and who both cited "fell out with the Kennel Club" as their reason for not being registered. Not with a barge pole - just not worth the aggravation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Sweepy Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 call me naive, but how do puppy farms get away with it .are there many that go to court. and are shut down. and what make people buy a dog from these places . how can you make dogs suffer like this just to make fast money suzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rec-baller Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 i made the stupid mistake of buying my collie from a farmer/breeder ( ) and after many visits to the vets etc had to give her away as she was basically mentaly unstable due to comming from overbred stock, the upshot of it was i ended up in Preston CROWN COURT with this joker ,my local council prosecuted him for over breeding and i was a witness, he was fined £10-000 YES 10 grand and banned from keeping dogs for 10 years !!!!! so please be aware of who you buy youre dogs from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul in North Lincs. Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I sure that is you have more thatn 4 biotches for the purpose of breeding, then you must obtain a speocial breeders license from the local authority, which is then monitored by them. No pegigrees...no Kc....jabs....who in their right mind would want a dog with neither... :lol: I wouldn't have though that it would be legal to jab your dogs without being qualified either...epecially whn vetinary drug are controlled subtances.......... You have trusted you intinct thats something isn't right...good on you....allways been good enough for me!!! this company does seem a little backward in its approach to businness to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 this all sounds too dodgy for words. The website says the exact opposite to your findings which is odd, its also odd not to register dogs if you are a breeded as registered dogs are worth more. It also claims he is registered with the local authority and gives the license number. I'm also not sure its legal for him to inject his own puppies or what vet would supply just the vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I got my puppy from a breeder who is passionate about his dogs and would make sure that no interbreeding was taking place my puppies dad is a Chocolate Lab from Wales to make sure he got a diferent strain in. He told me what I should look for in a pup like the teeth and eyes etc. And I have been told by several people that I have a nice looking looking dog. Apart from his mischevious behaviour he is the best dog in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 The Puppy Farms are required to register with the Local Authority like most businesses, but this does not mean they have been inspected, approved, or anything similar. The signs are that they usually have puppies of several different breeds available all year round (no waiting lists). Its often difficult to see the parents, or if you are shown the "mother", its probably not their mother. They will often have two litters a year from a bitch, are not too fussy about interbreeding and pass litters around between other Puppy Farms. A puppy from one of these places will probably be infected with worms, mites and other more life threatening diseases. My visit to the one at Ashford was over a Springer puppy that fitted repeatedly in the five days a friend had it and died on the sixth day, whilst in a animal hospital. The expert opinion was that the condition was caused by repeated close breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBF Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Apart from his mischevious behaviour he is the best dog in the world. sorry dusty but we cant both have the best dog in the world.. Take it back you scoundrel. on a serious note well done for taking the time to research Iain. many people dont bother which is why these dealers carry on doing what they do. that said my bitch came without any paperwork just jabs. i took word on it that the parents were working dogs, and that was enough for me. she will be a working dog and as a first gundog in my houshold im certain she will only be as good as my training is with her and im sure every single owner will agree with me, it dont matter how good a dogs background is if you dont put in the time to teach the dog what you expect it to do. my bitch was very cheap as a result and she is turning out to be THE BEST DOG IN THE WORLD, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart21 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I know that this is a really old thread, but hopefully you didn't buy from that place - http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/chaotic_puppy_farm_trio_given_dog_ban_order_1_2856770 Unfortunately a friend of mine did, even though I told them not to, they now have a 1yr old lab who has severe hip displaysia and after 2 operations, very little can be done. The article just shows how woefully inadequate our justice service can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Even before joining this forum or having any real experience with dog training I struggle to see how any one can be so naive to buy a dog from these sort of places. Our collie is not KC registered however we got him from a working farm in the breacon beacons and sore both the parents before buying, he was fully vet checked and vaccinated, they were the only dogs on the farm and kept in a nice secure barn with decent bedding and plenty of water etc. My other halfs family bought a Jack Russel from Jolleyes pet store about ten years ago when she was about 11 years old (the mrs not the dog). Its a miracle the thing lasted past ten weeks it cost them a small fortune to keep it alive when they got it home, was on a drip for two days. When they told me i could not believe it the only thing they said was they could not leave it there the conditions. Edited October 26, 2011 by ferguson_tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart21 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I think it is a lot to do with the price, it seems that people are keen to save money when buying a dog without any understanding of the cost of keeping a dog for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labstaff Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 He sounds really dodgy, run a mile mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge911 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 as said in every reply leave well alone mate. it amazes me how muppets like that get away with when the rspca put programmes on tv showing "all thier good work" annoying good pet owners and breaking the law by releaseing grey squirrels willy nilly not to mention the relaesed urban foxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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