bobshooting Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 £1000 x 150 members= £150.000 and that would be just for a year. Wildfowling works out cheap if compared to pheasants. As I said earlier, we have been through all this before, Kent will look after its members as it see's fit, others clubs will have to do the same, moan all you like on here it will change not one jot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) There are two large clubs along the N coast one of which has a restriction of local fowlers only, placed on them by landowner. To have a membership of 200 for many of the smaller clubs along the coast would ruin the wildfowling. These smaller clubs have very small areas of salt marsh and any more than 40 members is as much as the marsh could cope with without overshooting it. Almost all the marshes are SSSIs , or SPAs or NNRs and NE is looking very closely at the level of wildfowling along this area of coast and already there are dark moves to place restrictions on the level of shooting by reducing the number of days the marsh can be shot and the number of guns on any one day. Before anyone says it cant happen I can tell you it can and has . A couple of friends and I shoot on an inland marsh about the same size as Thornham , belonging to a farmer friend that holds up 10,000 pinks and large numbers of duck and NE has imposed a limit of 10 days shooting during the season. So all this talk of increasing the membership to rase money for the small clubs on the coast is pure rubbish. As long as the wildfowling remains at low intensity it will continue , but increase that level and that will be the end of wildfowling in this area. Edited June 12, 2014 by anser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) anser2 can I ask whether you are including Blakeney and District in your two 'large clubs''? I'm poles apart with your views on lead vrs steel and even further away from your views on Kent getting fowling land in Norfolk. Your opinions from what I've just read are that you have had inexpensive shooting in the past and don't fancy paying a proper market rate. I'm delighted Kent have dived in as they are obliged to do for the benefit of their members and the long term benefit of wildfowlers and the future of the sport. The world has changed and and money has talked up something positive. The land won't fall in to the hands of the RSPB or the National Trust. You have shot your fair share of geese as have many of us. Think about the bigger picture like Kent have and the young men of the future who will actually be able to get on the marsh. Edited June 12, 2014 by Whitebridges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Kwca issue 3 permits a day for Thorham do the other local clubs work on permits or can all 200 etc members shoot when they want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Shooting pressure on these parochial closed club marshes? that's a joke, apparently on some of them, a fowler is unlucky if more than occasionally he/she meets another fowler out on the marsh at flight! Because these clubs (locals) want to keep the marsh to themselves they bleat about the "good old days" and issue dire warnings for the future when someone mentions increased rents! they seem unable to grasp/accept that a club with a small local membership can't (and never will!) compete financially with all but the weakest competition, and as time goes on will be ever less able to!.........they need to come into the 21st century....and quickly! All the Bullsh1te excuses in the world won't change the fact that these closed greedy selfish clubs are the enemy of and will hasten the end (already are!) of traditional Wildfowling, by their parochial attitude and selfishness they are playing into the hands of their perceived enemies such as other clubs, private syndicates and the protectionists. What do these closed clubs do to help and encourage the newcomer to wildfowling? what do they do to protect and secure the future of wildfowling?.........nowt!......so why would any wildfowlers outwith these clubs care one jot what happens to them, their membership or their land? who will shed a tear when they lose their land to whoever (even to the protectionists!!)? because it is unlikely any wildfowler apart from locals will ever be able to shoot there and enjoy the marsh on a day permit let alone as a member!!.........when an inclusive club such as Kent buys the land from under them and opens up opportunities for other wildfowlers then perhaps more fowlers than a few locals will care!? For these short sighted stubbornly parochial clubs "Fiddling while Rome burns" comes to mind. Sorry to digress from the original topic but this issue really makes my **** boil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barls2-9-12 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Shooting pressure on these parochial closed club marshes? that's a joke, apparently on some of them, a fowler is unlucky if more than occasionally he/she meets another fowler out on the marsh at flight! Because these clubs (locals) want to keep the marsh to themselves they bleat about the "good old days" and issue dire warnings for the future when someone mentions increased rents! they seem unable to grasp/accept that a club with a small local membership can't (and never will!) compete financially with all but the weakest competition, and as time goes on will be ever less able to!.........they need to come into the 21st century....and quickly! All the Bullsh1te excuses in the world won't change the fact that these closed greedy selfish clubs are the enemy of and will hasten the end (already are!) of traditional Wildfowling, by their parochial attitude and selfishness they are playing into the hands of their perceived enemies such as other clubs, private syndicates and the protectionists. What do these closed clubs do to help and encourage the newcomer to wildfowling? what do they do to protect and secure the future of wildfowling?.........nowt!......so why would any wildfowlers outwith these clubs care one jot what happens to them, their membership or their land? who will shed a tear when they lose their land to whoever (even to the protectionists!!)? because it is unlikely any wildfowler apart from locals will ever be able to shoot there and enjoy the marsh on a day permit let alone as a member!!.........when an inclusive club such as Kent buys the land from under them and opens up opportunities for other wildfowlers then perhaps more fowlers than a few locals will care!? For these short sighted stubbornly parochial clubs "Fiddling while Rome burns" comes to mind. Sorry to digress from the original topic but this issue really makes my **** boil! Totally agree.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) Yes,Blakney is one of the larger clubs on the coast. Panoma I am in contact with both conservation organisations and wildfowlers and as a whole both feel the wildfowling system along the coast is working , but they are monitoring what is going on and as most of the coastal marshes are SPAs , NNRs and SSSIs they have control of the shooting and as you rightly say the shooting pressure is low, but should that increase they will seek to limit or stop fowling. This was attempted a couple of years ago for one club , but fortunetly with skilled negoations from the clubs officers most of what was demanded was dropped , but still some marsh was lost and on other sections shooting was stopped until mid October . The club was also left with a choice reduce day permits or have restrictions on the number of days the members could shoot on the marsh. As any clubs first loyalty must be to its members tight restrictions were placed on the day permits. As I have already stated my mates and I have had our shooting days restricted on our inland marsh and I was talking to a friend who also has inland wildfowling and NE is insisting they reduce their number of shooting days or they will not get their shooting consent from NE. When the next round of lease renewals comes around I would expect the pressure to return. The higher the shooting level the stronger the demands will become. So for wildfowling to continue along the coast the level of wildfowling needs to stay at or below its present level. Big clubs buying shooting rights in the area does not help the situation. Quote " Sorry to digress from the original topic but this issue really makes my **** boil!" . What makes my blood boil is when big clubs from another part of the country puts my wildowling at risk. I have no wish to shoot on their ground and cant understand why do they want to shoot on a marsh hundreds of miles away from their home county! If any individual from outside the area wants to wildfowl in the county there are plenty of clubs ( at least 7 ) they can join without a super club getting involved. Edited June 13, 2014 by anser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Boat Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Any one on here hold rights at Brancaster? Scolopax why the interest in Bracaster common rights? I've heard some very concerning news about Brancaster common rights and a large southern club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted June 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Scolopax why the interest in Bracaster common rights? I've heard some very concerning news about Brancaster common rights and a large southern club I have heard the same too...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayano3 Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Didn't something like this start the second world war ? so called superpower wanting to take over everything ?? Sorry I'm not really much of a historian and didn't attend school too often! I have read this topic with interest but kept what I know and my thoughts to myself so far. But I will say that some clubs do need to be more proactive and get younger members etc which they are now switched on to as we all know we are being watched by big brother(s). The clubs where I shoot all accept new members and do day tickets. Its not a closed shop. I hope I don't live to see the day we are taken over by clubs from away. We locals do call these 'our marshes' because these are the places we used to bike 15 miles to as kids and learn about the birds and the mud. (not always the feathered type). This is where we would swim in the creeks and realise we had to get back to safety as the tides would sneak up on us. Later in life we would get the opportunity to join 'our clubs' and use some of what we learned as kids to make us good at what we do now. We do need to stand up to be counted and do all we need to do to look after what we have. We have learned to respect our quarry, I cant think of anyone I shoot with who would shoot the bag limit of geese, that may not be the same if you have travelled 150 to do that! If we were taken over and finished up with no shooting on 'our marshes' some would possibly resort to shooting geese inland rather than on the foreshore, I would say that many of us have access to goose fields around the area but would never dream of shooting them. So it could have a massive impact on the wildlife too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 I have heard the same too...... So did I, but nothing recently, in the last year thinking about it and I have a clay-pigeon mate who is a member in there and another who is a frequent day ticket man, they would have said I believe and vociferously , but things can happen/change very swiftly lately on the North Norfolk Coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Kwca issue 3 permits a day for Thorham do the other local clubs work on permits or can all 200 etc members shoot when they want? On the Thornham Marsh, I think that they don't shoot Wednesdays and can't shoot Sundays, this being Norfolk. Also, unless I'm mistaken, you have to take 2 days shooting minimum and pay for your permit, Kent member or not. As Kent are the new boys, NE took the opportunity to screw down the amount of shooting allowed, something they couldn't do to Thornham Wildfowlers, we'd been there too long. King's Lynn Wildfowlers is entirely un-restricted, you pay your £120 and the salt-marsh is yours,go where you like, when you like, 6 days a week, (no extra payments), except in your first year, when you must go with an ''older'' member. Anyone, from anywhere in the country can apply for membership. The other Wash Clubs are the same-ish I think, except in Lincolnshire it's where you like, when you like, 7 days a week, (no extra payments)...........lucky ****ers. But you have to be careful over there, they're a funny lot..........rumour has it they eat their young, especially in Wisbech, stay armed and vigilant at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 On the Thornham Marsh, I think that they don't shoot Wednesdays and can't shoot Sundays, this being Norfolk. Also, unless I'm mistaken, you have to take 2 days shooting minimum and pay for your permit, Kent member or not. As Kent are the new boys, NE took the opportunity to screw down the amount of shooting allowed, something they couldn't do to Thornham Wildfowlers, we'd been there too long. King's Lynn Wildfowlers is entirely un-restricted, you pay your £120 and the salt-marsh is yours,go where you like, when you like, 6 days a week, (no extra payments), except in your first year, when you must go with an ''older'' member. Anyone, from anywhere in the country can apply for membership. The other Wash Clubs are the same-ish I think, except in Lincolnshire it's where you like, when you like, 7 days a week, (no extra payments)...........lucky ****ers. But you have to be careful over there, they're a funny lot..........rumour has it they eat their young, especially in Wisbech, stay armed and vigilant at all times. I think all the wash clubs operate roughly on the same lines. I am a member of a club in Lincolnshire and being able to shoot sundays comes in handy! I agree about staying away from the wisbech lot, strange lot indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 200 members in my opinion is a good level of membership. Where you are limited due to the terms of lease a it's a diffrent scenario all together, such restrictions would have an influence of the lands value. Without knowing the full details of the terms it is hard to give a full detailed answer. Without knowing the full details it's hard to pass judgement on. Maybe if the shooting is regulated by a permit type of system rather than members it is possible to increase membership numbers without impacting on the level of shooting as I doubt all members are out at the same time. At the same time there are other ways to raise money to help the club fund land and other activities such as conservation work. I am no expert on the legalities of what can and can't be done with land such as things as grant, conservation work and what not. But I am sure there are professionals at organisations such as BASC who can advise on the matter and ensure that a club is getting the most out of the land. There are going to be case where membership is capped and worked out on the basis of land available to shoot. To prevent overshooting. Is it true that Alan Jarrett is allowed to shoot some of Stephen Betts land if he comes down and there's not much doing on the Marsh, as a sweetener on the deal? It's just a rumour, I DON'T speak as to the truth of it, but I 've heard it from more than one source now. It has to be said that bad-feeling running so high, sometimes things get blow out of orbit, which is not right, no matter what your moan is. I heard it was him and his brother going on a cracking spot, but I don't even know if he has a brother, so might well be nonsense. I'm sure if he was getting it, he'd share it fairly amongst his other members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 I think all the wash clubs operate roughly on the same lines. I am a member of a club in Lincolnshire and being able to shoot sundays comes in handy! I agree about staying away from the wisbech lot, strange lot indeed I bet it comes in handy. It doesn't worry me much now that I'm retired, I can go any day, but Saturdays would be quieter at Lynn I think, if Sunday was available, especially evening flight. There is always somewhere to get hid-up whenever you go, but I must confess, I like it best when my mate and I have the whole ground to ourselves, selfish old gentlemen that we are, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) On the Thornham Marsh, I think that they don't shoot Wednesdays and can't shoot Sundays, this being Norfolk. Also, unless I'm mistaken, you have to take 2 days shooting minimum and pay for your permit, Kent member or not. As Kent are the new boys, NE took the opportunity to screw down the amount of shooting allowed, something they couldn't do to Thornham Wildfowlers, we'd been there too long. King's Lynn Wildfowlers is entirely un-restricted, you pay your £120 and the salt-marsh is yours,go where you like, when you like, 6 days a week, (no extra payments), except in your first year, when you must go with an ''older'' member. Anyone, from anywhere in the country can apply for membership. The other Wash Clubs are the same-ish I think, except in Lincolnshire it's where you like, when you like, 7 days a week, (no extra payments)...........lucky ****ers. But you have to be careful over there, they're a funny lot..........rumour has it they eat their young, especially in Wisbech, stay armed and vigilant at all times. Not entirely true about king's lynn being unrestricted, we're not allowed to shoot on the mud oh and your only jealous of us Lincolnshire folk because we're allowed to marry outside of family Edited June 14, 2014 by Ttfjlc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Not entirely true about king's lynn being unrestricted, we're not allowed to shoot on the mud oh and your only jealous of us Lincolnshire folk because we're allowed to marry outside of family That family comment made me literally, Laugh Out Loud; that'll teach me to be more circumspect in my Lincolnshire remarks, perhaps, nice one mate. No Mud Shooting, you're right and there is also a restriction of 4 Geese per day. I dislike restrictions on the Marsh, but these two have worked, don't you think? The Geese are now left in peace to rest and the stupids who think it clever to shoot more Geese than you can carry are breaking the rules and can be punished. You could shoot a lot of Geese, if you got things just right, but why would you want more than you could carry? Thanks for the laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 On the Thornham Marsh, I think that they don't shoot Wednesdays and can't shoot Sundays, this being Norfolk. Also, unless I'm mistaken, you have to take 2 days shooting minimum and pay for your permit, Kent member or not. No extra payment and only one day , surprised you can go when you like on your club marsh its good to be able to go when you like but there is always the chance that every member would be out on the same day un likley but possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 On the Thornham Marsh, I think that they don't shoot Wednesdays and can't shoot Sundays, this being Norfolk. Also, unless I'm mistaken, you have to take 2 days shooting minimum and pay for your permit, Kent member or not. No extra payment and only one day , surprised you can go when you like on your club marsh its good to be able to go when you like but there is always the chance that every member would be out on the same day un likley but possible Is it really surprising that some clubs allow unrestricted 6 or 7 days a week shooting throughout the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 I am a member of one of these 7 day a week clubs and as you know tides restrict you shooting the best times, etc so they are not over shot ever hardly see another soul out there, and no mud shooting so the birds can be miles out at low tide,and we have a reasonable to low membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Boat Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 That family comment made me literally, Laugh Out Loud; that'll teach me to be more circumspect in my Lincolnshire remarks, perhaps, nice one mate. No Mud Shooting, you're right and there is also a restriction of 4 Geese per day. I dislike restrictions on the Marsh, but these two have worked, don't you think? The Geese are now left in peace to rest and the stupids who think it clever to shoot more Geese than you can carry are breaking the rules and can be punished. You could shoot a lot of Geese, if you got things just right, but why would you want more than you could carry? Thanks for the laugh. Not quite true this should read WILL be punished, members are also reminded that the KL&WNWA take a dim view of members discussing the club on line, remeber there is a club out there that would think nothing of stealing our lease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono 4 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Scolopax why the interest in Bracaster common rights? I've heard some very concerning news about Brancaster common rights and a large southern club Not strictly true I have seen the letter and the very large southern club have used a conservation charity to try and purchase the commoners rights through the back door and try and take over more shooting than they currently have even though they would "never buy shooting under the control of another shooting club" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Boat Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) Not strictly true I have seen the letter and the very large southern club have used a conservation charity to try and purchase the commoners rights through the back door and try and take over more shooting than they currently have even though they would "never buy shooting under the control of another shooting club" Thornham ?? Edited June 15, 2014 by House Boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 That family comment made me literally, Laugh Out Loud; that'll teach me to be more circumspect in my Lincolnshire remarks, perhaps, nice one mate. No Mud Shooting, you're right and there is also a restriction of 4 Geese per day. I dislike restrictions on the Marsh, but these two have worked, don't you think? The Geese are now left in peace to rest and the stupids who think it clever to shoot more Geese than you can carry are breaking the rules and can be punished. You could shoot a lot of Geese, if you got things just right, but why would you want more than you could carry? Thanks for the laugh. Your welcome sir, although to be fair your description of Wisbech is spot on! I agree with you about too many geese, I know when I shot 3 one morning and had to carry them back I was ok for the first 100 yards till I had to cross a large creek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Not quite true this should read WILL be punished, members are also reminded that the KL&WNWA take a dim view of members discussing the club on line, remeber there is a club out there that would think nothing of stealing our lease. My apologies House Boat I honestly didn't realise a certain club had so many knives at the ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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