the 12 ft/lbs law versus pellet weight ??

[pabs]

Yikes! Always set up with heavies !!

[kdubya]

Oh ! Your post is made more valid by your post count?! Someone has the temerity to disagree with you, or offer their opinion and you jump down their throat and apparently can't be ***** with this thread anymore ! So what you chamming on about in this thread then? Post a few more daft ones like the above and you'll soon hit your 3000, you'll feel extra important then.....

 

was refering to his count nugget

 

KW

[pabs]

As you were quoting ME in your reply and said 'It gets YOUR post count up' NOT 'HIS post count' one presumes you were referring to ME.

 

Nugget.

 

Edit- Ah, I see what you mean KW I've read plenty of Dekers post, he seems to know what he is talking about. I don't think he posts any old twaddle just to up his count!!

Edited December 30, 2010 by pabs

[The Duncan]

Yikes! Always set up with heavies !!

OR better still set up on the best pellet for your riflfe, then check others (heavier and lighter) to make sure the gun isn't over the limit.

My HW100S - AA field 11.8 fpe, Bis Mags, 10.3 fpe.

The rules of thumb don't always apply - be warned

[RC45]

Would it be safe to assume, resizing a pellet could increase it's fpe?

[The Duncan]

Would it be safe to assume, resizing a pellet could increase it's fpe?

Yes, but it often works in the opposite way and reduces velocity, but makes loading easier - experienced this with a .25 beesa.

I resized due to sore thumb when inserting pellet into a tight breach. The rifle went off sweeter but lost half an fpe.

[pabs]

Would it be safe to assume, resizing a pellet could increase it's fpe?

 

If it was way oversized in the first place and causing too much friction on the way doen the barrel, the resizing could indeed make it go faster/ increase fpe

[pabs]

And as TD says, if the pellet is resized to the point where the skirt doesn't engage the rifling properly/seal well, you can loose fpe

Edited December 30, 2010 by pabs

[mikemjm999]

For your interest guys in my hw 95 there is a full 2 ft/lb difference between hn ftt greens and cross man ultra mags (1.77), that said there is a full 10 grains difference between the 2 pellets.

 

I know for a fact that a Prometheus pellets is likely to go thorugh the gun and a good 2 or 3 ft/lbs than a crossman ultra mag. Just shows how much difference pellet type can make.

[UKPoacher]

In my previous gun a HW100 which was extremely consistent I found that AA Fields in 4.52 were around 0.3 ft/lb greater than the 4.51 pellets.

 

In a .22 I found that Logun Penetrators aka Defiants are significantly slower through the gun and had considerably less energy than AA Fields or JSB Exacts despite these pellets weighing the same.

[unclemicky]

If it's of interest to anyone my Airarms 410 extra FAC using AA field = 28 ftlb , and using Bisley Magnums =32 ftlb ,

[mkairgunner]

My pcp seems to be doing the opposite, 11.4 grains doing 11.5 ftlb and the prems 14.3 grains I think from memory doing about 10ftlb..

[timmytree]

Yes, if you tune your heavy pellet to edge of legal, then all lighter pellets will give less FtLb and thus in the legal limit.

Rubbish. That is completely wrong. It's less about weight, more about pellet fit, skirt thickness and lead composition.. Most rifles will give higher readings with AA Fields or Field Express..

I know, I've tried most brands with a springer and a PCP. I don't rely on fairy stories or someone elses erroneous beliefs.

[jam1e]

Well said Dekers! I thought this was a discussion going on here, not a sermon from someone??!!

I too would seriously doubt a conviction would follow a single pellet test over 12 ftlb!! CPS wouldn't even take it to court.

Previous history with the Police would also come in to play..... If he is a ****, common name for low level criminals then it may be in the public interest to prosecute.

If the person concerned made a genuine mistake or just bad judgment, and is not 'known' to the Police it wouldn't be in the public interest to spend money on a Prosecution. And as stated he or she may just have to get the gun made legal at his cost, and produce a written record from an RFD to say so.

Having said all that, it could just end up depending on what CPS worker gets the file. I found the CPS to be generally totally unpredictable most of the time. But like any organisation, they too have targets to meet. Being totally honest, and having worked with them, (Sighs..) if an 'easy kill' (no pun intended), is there for the taking, and the evidence is 'seen' to be strong then the poor fella may cop a prosecution just for the sake of 'stats'. And i saw that on numerous occasions, for numerous offences. The system is/was just so unjust!

[Guest]

Oh no, not again!

[subsonicnat]

Tested my PCP With the heavy grained pellets,it went over..

To my way of thinking there should be a STANDARD Not what they think will push it over,be it lighter or Heavies,Con trick in my opinion..

Stick with my AA Diablo Field,11.5,Sod the rest..

[Mice!]

Ha ha ha that's an old one 😅

[Rimfireboy]

Rubbish. That is completely wrong. It's less about weight, more about pellet fit, skirt thickness and lead composition.. Most rifles will give higher readings with AA Fields or Field Express..

I know, I've tried most brands with a springer and a PCP. I don't rely on fairy stories or someone elses erroneous beliefs.

You're correct, depends what pellets suit the barrel. You can't base it all on pellet weight, it just isn't that simple.

[Twistedsanity]

I can't be bothered to read the entire post as this subject has been done to death on every airgun forum ever but I would add my tuppence worth that the single pellet if measured by plod's chosen expert on a chrono at a smidgen over 12ft lbs in simple terms means you are in possession of an unlicensed unregistered illegal firearm in the eyes of the law and not just a "slightly overpowered air rifle", that's the long and short of it and that is an offence I wouldn't like to play a guessing game as to if they would prosecute for or not, there is no leeway and no grey area here whatsoever 12.0000000001 ft/lbs is all the difference needed to prosecute you for a firearms offence and ensure you have any licence or sgc revoked or any chance of getting one vetoed, it's not pc plod that measures the chrono's output or decides on the prosecution and the specialist report would say "illegal firearm" not "ever so slightly naughty just accidently above the limit air gun" and that's what the cps would prosecute on.

[Rewulf]

I was recently asked by a friend of a friend to pick up his air rifle from police storage.

A 1 month old air ranger, he had it taken off him when his house was raided for a minor drugs offence.

The gun was duly tested, and was found to be 12.1 ft lb, it was tested with 3 different weights of pellet, and the 'heavies' put it just over.

I explained that the gun was a section 1 firearm ,and would need an RFD to collect it and alter the power,before it was legal limit again.

He was not prosecuted for it, although he was told, technically he could have been, but there was no evidence of tampering or malicious intent.

[ips]

Surely if you buy an sir rifle as a sub 12ft lbs and then buy some off the shelf pellets its not your fault if it goes over, apart from anything else not everyone has a chrono

[Rewulf]

Surely if you buy an sir rifle as a sub 12ft lbs and then buy some off the shelf pellets its not your fault if it goes over, apart from anything else not everyone has a chrono

 

You would think not, and sub limit air rifles are normally well below to compensate for it ,sometimes down to 9.5 ft lbs, even on the 'premium' brands.

But its not the first time Ive heard of this,and often ,without a chrono, people are oblivious.

[ips]

I wonder what the scenario would be for plod to feel the need to test your rifle ??

[Ultrastu]

Surely if you buy an sir rifle as a sub 12ft lbs and then buy some off the shelf pellets its not your fault if it goes over, apart from anything else not everyone has a chrono

You would be suprised to hear but ive bought a few guns brand new .got them home and over the chrono they are over 12 fpe .

I always take a chrono when looking to buy a sh gun .and they are often over the limit .most of these from gun shops .

Ignorance of the law or blind hope that you might be ok is no defence .

I have fac air tickets in all cals .but my sub 12s are very much that .sub 12

[Rimfireboy]

A brand new,out of the box hatsan striker .25 was doing 15.5ft lbs. I told the shop and they said that they're all like that, they need a few hundred pellets through them to settle down. Unbelievable! Also, with some spring guns,I've found that when they've been standing for a long time, the first shot will diesel. In one particular gun, the first shot will be about 19ft lbs, then straight away settle at below 12 from the second shot onwards. As for guns that are 'capable' of exceeding 12ft lbs being classed as firearms, in reality, that's most of them then. Going by the letter of the law, these things alone would put most air rifles on section 1. And what about air pistols? At 6.1 ft lbs its section 5, theoretically putting you behind bars for five years. Hopefully common sense would prevail,but it's a minefield as far as interpretation of the law is concerned.