Redgum Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Why would you tell your FEO,and why would the matter come to court?I know plenty of blokes who have shot foxes with rf.If a farmer is out with his rf and finds a fox asleep on a pile of silage,well within range,I doubt he's going to go and get his centre-fire,even if he has one.Shooting rabbits with a shotgun is contrary to the Wildlife and Countryside act,but it doesn't stop people doing it. This is about right, how many fox shooters have knocked over a Roe or Munty in the hours of darkness when one has been fixed in the lamp, what happens and what we preach n argue on here about is a bit differant in the field. Never heard of shootin rabbits with the 12gauge contrary to any act though, think you have that wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I don't mind being wrong.The statement was based on a conversation I had with my FEO after I had my section 1 shotgun application turned down by licensing.In it I stated that I wanted it for 'bolting' bunnies as we do a LOT of pest control for local landowners,and whilst I can do the job well with my section 1 pump,it is choked full,and at the ranges we're talking of,the tight patterns rendered the meat unsellable.He told me that while 'we know' many people shoot rabbits with a shotgun,it is contrary to the Wildlife and Countryside Act which relates to 'avian' species.He told me to apply again,quoting this act.I did,and got my variation. I haven't read the Wildlife and Countryside Act,so you may be right,perhaps I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Nothing wrong with blatting bunnies with a shotgun. Odd thst someone said so. No problem killing foxes with a 22lr. They are counted under the popular definition of ''vermin' so they are covered on a vermin 22 ticket. This goes against some police but they have to prove fox isn't vermin in order to prosecute, so I doubt they'll go there. Certainly, there is sufficient ambiguity to make it OK to just get out and do it, and keep schtum. Regarding choices of tool, stick with hollow point subsonics, they are more accurate. I prefer a headshot because the 22lr isn't very powerful and this is very reliable. BUT you need to judge the moment and make sure he's still. If he's fidgety, chest shot - might take a few secs to actually kark it, but more humane than a headshot gone wrong. 22 lr keeps its energy quite well, so anything under a hundred yards IF YOU ARE CONFIDENT OF THE SHOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Why would you tell your FEO,and why would the matter come to court?I know plenty of blokes who have shot foxes with rf.If a farmer is out with his rf and finds a fox asleep on a pile of silage,well within range,I doubt he's going to go and get his centre-fire,even if he has one.Shooting rabbits with a shotgun is contrary to the Wildlife and Countryside act,but it doesn't stop people doing it. Scully, help me out with this bit, I was not aware of that and frankly I have to say I am sceptical. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boristhedog Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Scully, help me out with this bit, I was not aware of that and frankly I have to say I am sceptical. Cheers Me too. If that was the case the 'anti's' would be on to it faster than a particle from CERN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I don't mind being wrong.The statement was based on a conversation I had with my FEO after I had my section 1 shotgun application turned down by licensing.In it I stated that I wanted it for 'bolting' bunnies as we do a LOT of pest control for local landowners,and whilst I can do the job well with my section 1 pump,it is choked full,and at the ranges we're talking of,the tight patterns rendered the meat unsellable.He told me that while 'we know' many people shoot rabbits with a shotgun,it is contrary to the Wildlife and Countryside Act which relates to 'avian' species.He told me to apply again,quoting this act.I did,and got my variation. I haven't read the Wildlife and Countryside Act,so you may be right,perhaps I am wrong. Read that through a few times and I can't really make any sense of it though I could see why a FA dept would raise their eyebrows over a section 1 shotgun for shooting bunnies.Any wildlife and countryside Act related to Avian species is understandable as there are rules over shooting pigeons etc, they have to be a pest etc. Maybe the bunnies around Scully's neck of the woods have feathers,after all I have ready less believable things on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Whether you're sceptical or having difficuilty making sense of it doesn't really bother me too much to be honest.I was merely telling of a conversation I had with my FEO,whether he's right or not,I have no idea,nor do I care,I'll continue to shoot bunnies,feathered or not,just as foxes will continue to be shot with 22rf's regardless of whether the owners ticket is conditioned for it or that particular licensing authority condones it or not. Like I said,I don't mind if I'm wrong,but can't elaborate on the mentioned act as I don't care enough to read it.Next time I talk to my FEO I'll ask him to explain and I'll pass on his reply. If there is no such stipulation in the act Redgum,why can you 'see why a FA dept' would raise their eyebrows over a section 1 shotgun for shooting bunnies'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Whether you're sceptical or having difficuilty making sense of it doesn't really bother me too much to be honest.I was merely telling of a conversation I had with my FEO,whether he's right or not,I have no idea,nor do I care,I'll continue to shoot bunnies,feathered or not,just as foxes will continue to be shot with 22rf's regardless of whether the owners ticket is conditioned for it or that particular licensing authority condones it or not. Like I said,I don't mind if I'm wrong,but can't elaborate on the mentioned act as I don't care enough to read it.Next time I talk to my FEO I'll ask him to explain and I'll pass on his reply. If there is no such stipulation in the act Redgum,why can you 'see why a FA dept' would raise their eyebrows over a section 1 shotgun for shooting bunnies'? Don't be so prickly Scully, wasnt meant as a dig at you old mate, my FA dept come up with the stangest things sometimes, I once asked my FEO if I could get a section one for pigeon control and he said it was unlikely, I never followed it up as it was just a question,thus the raised eyebrow, personally I have never felt the need for a multi shot pump action when bolting rabbits, a good stop net works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn9914 Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Shaun, the size of land does not decide the calibre,(well true to a point if common sense is used) You may find that the land is passed for 22 CF allready so i would apply for one ASAP. You have good reason for asking for a CF so should not be refused as long as FEO is happy you have enough experience. Incedently has the land got any houses surrounding it ie; housing estates DOUGY regards experiance i have had both my shotgun and my rimfire for 7 years now had a restricted ticket for the rimfire for first 5 years now i have an open ticket when i renewed it, should this be enough to get a CF rifle??? regards houses there are no houses on my permission there is a B road running along one side of it then the other 2 sides have small narrow country lanes adjoining them there is just the farm and thats right on the edge of the permission no other buildings on the permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyrus Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Doesn't it say something about using semi automatic guns? So a SxS or a O/U is ok but not a semi auto, sure it's something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Don't be so prickly Scully, wasnt meant as a dig at you old mate, my FA dept come up with the stangest things sometimes, I once asked my FEO if I could get a section one for pigeon control and he said it was unlikely, I never followed it up as it was just a question,thus the raised eyebrow, personally I have never felt the need for a multi shot pump action when bolting rabbits, a good stop net works fine. Fair enough,my apologies,I misinterpreted your post. You may be right rallyrus,I honestly have no idea.The sect'1 shotgun I applied for was an auto,as I already owned a pump.I suppose it may depend on whether rabbit are classed as game or vermin. Edited December 14, 2011 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW682 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 The WCA does have some restrictions on what can be shot with a semi-auto holding more than 2 cartridges in the magazine (ie Section 1 to you and me). Also is it possible the FEO was suggesting that your Section 1 was only conditioned for "avian pests"? - as this is normally the justification for acquiring one (for non target shooting.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Also is it possible the FEO was suggesting that your Section 1 was only conditioned for "avian pests"? - as this is normally the justification for acquiring one (for non target shooting.) That makes sense actually.Once I altered the 'good reason' by quoting the act,as he suggested,my application went through no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters_return Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 My section 1 shotgun conditions are for vermin, ground game and clay pigeon. (clays, after i ask for it to be put on) ATB Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Shawn PM sent, (saves getting involved) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireSam Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 Main issue of using a .22 LR on foxes is that you will rarely get them within range unless youngsters. I often see foxes out while rabbiting but usually fail to get them in range of a .22 (ideally 50 yards as this is what gun is zeroed to). Much more chance of a shot with the range of a CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 Main issue of using a .22 LR on foxes is that you will rarely get them within range unless youngsters. I often see foxes out while rabbiting but usually fail to get them in range of a .22 (ideally 50 yards as this is what gun is zeroed to). Much more chance of a shot with the range of a CF. Although I don't doubt your experience I am not sure this is true. We are often shooting foxes at less than 50m and some as close as 15m. My guess would be that most of ours are shot within this distance. There is a difference between seeing foxes when you are out and going after them. I have one to do tonight which will be about 50m. The main reason not to use a .22 specifically as a fox round is that the options for humane use are restricted. Greater options for humane shooting with a CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzab Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 My wmr does the job an absolute treat. I don't, as yet, have CF. So for now it's what I use. Keep my ranges and plavement sensible and they fall on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 What is your ground rated upto i had a piece of ground that FAO said i could shoot a .22 on but would not clear it for CF that was in the early years then i got an open ticket on all my rifles and now i shoot my 308 on it out of a high seat tell them you going to put high seats up if they say the ground is a bit flat for CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labstaff Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I don't mind being wrong.The statement was based on a conversation I had with my FEO after I had my section 1 shotgun application turned down by licensing.In it I stated that I wanted it for 'bolting' bunnies as we do a LOT of pest control for local landowners,and whilst I can do the job well with my section 1 pump,it is choked full,and at the ranges we're talking of,the tight patterns rendered the meat unsellable.He told me that while 'we know' many people shoot rabbits with a shotgun,it is contrary to the Wildlife and Countryside Act which relates to 'avian' species.He told me to apply again,quoting this act.I did,and got my variation. I haven't read the Wildlife and Countryside Act,so you may be right,perhaps I am wrong. This is also in the Home Office firearms guidance (13.21). Once good reason is proved for a section 1 shotgun for avian species and the licence is granted it is permittable to use the good for mammalian pests too. But the way it reads to me is that the good reason has to be for avian species only for the grant. I've no idea why but when did common sense ever matter to law makers. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 This is also in the Home Office firearms guidance (13.21). Once good reason is proved for a section 1 shotgun for avian species and the licence is granted it is permittable to use the good for mammalian pests too. But the way it reads to me is that the good reason has to be for avian species only for the grant. I've no idea why but when did common sense ever matter to law makers. Hope this helps. All very well but Scully's post was written before the current guidance wording existed. Check his post date !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labstaff Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Oops my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) the answer to the question is a .22lr has probably killed more foxes than any other round in this country. so if kept to sensible range will kill foxes very humanely. hope this thread makes more pages lol Edited December 7, 2016 by bumpy22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbangman Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) I have shot fox with .22LR (it's conditioned for this on my FAC), while rabbiting as per the video below- skip to 2:10 or watch and laugh as I try and get reloaded in the dark! This was with subs. I wouldn't use .22LR out of choice but at a range where you can put the bullet where it's needed it will be ethical. Edited December 7, 2016 by Bangbangman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Cracking little video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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