What weight, length and shot size .410 cartridge

[Gizza22196]

I've been thinking about getting a .410 (maybe with a moderator) for rabbits at night and some close range pigeons where a 12g may cause noise problems.

What would be the ideal size cartridge for them?

[Andy H]

3" in 5 or 6 if you can find them ,I load 5 in subsonic and 6 in normal 410's

[Gizza22196]

Cheers, I have heard the 3" don't pattern too good, that's the main reason I started this thread, to see if a slightly smaller one actually works better

Am I right in saying the average .410 load is around 19gr?

[team tractor]

I use 2" to 3" all the time . The 3 " is a lot louder and no need for it even tho they pack a hell of a punch .

I use 2.5's in 6/7 in 14 gr loads with no problems but 5's would be better if I could find some .

 

Remember you don't need a big load as its only firing a small amount of shot ( 120ish number 6)

[welshwarrior]

I prefer smaller shot in my 2 1/2 410 as they pattern better and at close 410 ranges I find they kill better.

 

Patterns kill not weight of shot

[hawkfanz]

one of the lads on our shoot joined us one day while decoyin,he had mosburg moderated 410 usin 3in 19g carts was really surprised how many birds he knocked down and hardly a sound out of it got me thinkin might get one in 20g.

[jackinbox99]

one of the lads on our shoot joined us one day while decoyin,he had mosburg moderated 410 usin 3in 19g carts was really surprised how many birds he knocked down and hardly a sound out of it got me thinkin might get one in 20g.

 

Yep they are good and quiet out in the field.

 

For Rabbits though, id prefer using an air rifle, mainly cos i eat them afterwards. Also I find the air rifle has a longer range than my .410

[Rimfireboy]

2:1/2 inch carts with no7 shot for a better pattern. Eley fourlongs for quietness.

[fendrover90]

I bought some 410 f.o.b. 3"mags in 20 grm 4s off the fatman (discount cartridges) at the robin hood game fair. through my mossy these carts have been fantastic, pattern well and 35-40 yard rabbits are now dropping every time... thinking of treating myself to a mec reloader in 410 flavour

[colin lad]

I've been thinking about getting a .410 (maybe with a moderator) for rabbits at night and some close range pigeons where a 12g may cause noise problems.

What would be the ideal size cartridge for them?

a while back i did some pattern tests on 2" 21/2" and 3" carts and posted results if you look back,

i found the 21/2" 7s best as rimfireboy says then 21/2" 6s next followed by 2" 9g and last was 3" 18gs and 19gs last.

as for noise i found as follows

out of 10, 1 being worst (noisy) and 10 being quietest in my hush power

2" 9g score 5

3" 18 and 19g score 3

21/2" 11g 6s score 7

21/2" 14g 7s score 8

3" 18g subsonics score 6

i am yet to try the fourlongs as rimfire says but they will be getting a go very soon

 

hope that makes sense

colin

 

if you local to me you can pop over and have a go with them all

[welshwarrior]

I find the same 2 1/2 7 work best 2 1/2 9s hold a good pattern and I have read an article on the net say he found them best for all game and clays. 9s just seem to small for me I'd be interested if I could find some 8s to test.

[theshootist]

I agree 100% with Colin's post above. In my Mossberg hushpower I have found express 2.5" 14g the quietest, better than eley subsonic. I have used 5, 6, 7, and 9s depending on what I'm shooting at. I think there is only so far you can push the little . 410 and 19g seems to be too much. It may be different in other guns which are not fully choked.

[archiebald]

In my hushpower. 410 the express no.5 14 gm loads where umberlivabley quiet my mate in the same field often didnt know id fired a shot until we met up at the top and saw me carrying a bunny. The 2.5 inch 11 gs eley fourlongs where ok too but not as quiet. When fired at cans at the same location and session there seemed to be a slight difference in noise from cart to cart in the same box not just noticed by me but there definately was and it was a still day. The eley 3 inch where loud as where the 3 inch subs.

[Dangerous Brian]

If you go for a moderated version a lot pf people will tell you that plastic wads should not be used. If that's the case then you are pretty much limited to Eley shells. From what I have read on here there is a split on whether you can or cannot use them (plastic wad). This might also be down to the design of the gun and/ or the manufacturer's advice.

 

Anyway, the old saying patterns always fail before power in the .410 is a pretty good rule to go by. My own testing agrees with most other peoples view in that the longer the shot column the poorer the pattern can be. I loaded up my own 17g 7 1/2 shot fibre shells and found that I got a very good pattern at 20 yards through 1/4 choke, especially if I made a paper shot cup (tested at the proof house first). From memory, increasing the payload to 19.5 grams made the pattern a bit more patchy. The paper shot cup didn't help in this case either. Increasing shot size to a 7 helped even the pattern up.

 

For .410 I only use very hard plated shot to minimise deformation (impossible to eliminate) which this bore suffers from more than the others. If you go for the larger payloads then you need to keep the speed down relative to lighter ones to preserve the pattern. I think (poor memory) I have my 17g loads doing around 1250-1300fps and my 19.5g loads 1150fps max. Both are OK on decoyed pigeon and crow but I do not take liberties with the range. Small shot definitely fills the pattern out and I think is more effective than going to large shot (with the exception of subsonics) at .410 ranges.

 

Edit: I did load some 21g fibre wads in a 76mm case. Hitting power was there but there wasn't so much a pattern as more of a scattering of pellets around the field I was in. 21g definitely needs a plastic wad.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Dangerous Brian

[Rimfireboy]

If you go for a moderated version a lot pf people will tell you that plastic wads should not be used. If that's the case then you are pretty much limited to Eley shells. From what I have read on here there is a split on whether you can or cannot use them (plastic wad). This might also be down to the design of the gun and/ or the manufacturer's advice.

 

Anyway, the old saying patterns always fail before power in the .410 is a pretty good rule to go by. My own testing agrees with most other peoples view in that the longer the shot column the poorer the pattern can be. I loaded up my own 17g 7 1/2 shot fibre shells and found that I got a very good pattern at 20 yards through 1/4 choke, especially if I made a paper shot cup (tested at the proof house first). From memory, increasing the payload to 19.5 grams made the pattern a bit more patchy. The paper shot cup didn't help in this case either. Increasing shot size to a 7 helped even the pattern up.

 

For .410 I only use very hard plated shot to minimise deformation (impossible to eliminate) which this bore suffers from more than the others. If you go for the larger payloads then you need to keep the speed down relative to lighter ones to preserve the pattern. I think (poor memory) I have my 17g loads doing around 1250-1300fps and my 19.5g loads 1150fps max. Both are OK on decoyed pigeon and crow but I do not take liberties with the range. Small shot definitely fills the pattern out and I think is more effective than going to large shot (with the exception of subsonics) at .410 ranges.

 

Edit: I did load some 21g fibre wads in a 76mm case. Hitting power was there but there wasn't so much a pattern as more of a scattering of pellets around the field I was in. 21g definitely needs a plastic wad.

 

You're pretty much bang on with that Brian. Good post.

[deershooter]

I have been reloading .410 for the last year probably reloaded around 3000 now the best shot weight I have found is around 16-16.5 grams with winchester 296 UEE684 primers and a Siarm AZ wad all fits in to a fiocchi 3 inch case .

 

16 grams in a 2.5 inch with a 9mm felt wad O/P card and roll turnover works just as well as long as you have hard shot

 

Deershooter

Edited December 6, 2012 by deershooter

[kent]

had a few .410's over the years and found they never realy forfilled thier promise Until i picked up an old Baikal in a swap. Pattern soon fails after 25 yds its useless very gappy, before that point its great I use Eley 3" fibre 18grn of no.6. It killed rabbits so darn well i thought i might try it on a hare (for which i normally say no.4 12 bore) anyhow i shot two and they both just fell over stone dead like they had been a steel knockover target- no twiching flicking just pain instant and silent dead! Perhaps i pushed the ranges too far for the "lil gun" in the past? because this combo kills like Thors hammer.

 

i have yet to try any other shells BTW

[ChrisAsh]

Never understood why people push the loading to the maximum that will fit, get to above about 16 gram and you should be much better using a 28 gauge or a 20 gauge at 21 gram

 

With 410 each gun and shell combination can make great differences in the pattern, probably far more difference than other larger gauges

 

Range with a 410 is not the problem it fires at the same velocity as 12 g, it's the fewer pellets, and the breakdown of the pattern as well as the much reduced pattern width against larger gauges that restrict it's use

 

If you felt the hitting power at 50 yards of both a 12 and 410 they would be very simular, but the number of hits would be far greater with the 12g

 

Many a phesant has been brought down by 410's and 28g

Edited December 6, 2012 by ChrisAsh

[kent]

Never understood why people push the loading to the maximum that will fit, get to above about 16 gram and you should be much better using a 28 gauge or a 20 gauge at 21 gram

 

With 410 each gun and shell combination can make great differences in the pattern, probably far more difference than other larger gauges

 

Range with a 410 is not the problem it fires at the same velocity as 12 g, it's the fewer pellets, and the breakdown of the pattern as well as the much reduced pattern width against larger gauges that restrict it's use

 

If you felt the hitting power at 50 yards of both a 12 and 410 they would be very simular, but the number of hits would be far greater with the 12g

 

Many a phesant has been brought down by 410's and 28g

 

surely this is contradictory as range is dictated by pattern velocity per pellet is irrelivent if non get the quarry in the correct vital spot. I am confused by your point

[colin lad]

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/196634-410-pattern-test-part-2/

have a look at this

 

colin

[Guest cookoff013]

i mainly reload 12gauge subsonics, but mine are 950fps or so. i could probly load to 1000fps, but not much difference between #4 at 950fps and 1000fps.

now for a guessed MV add aprox 50fps. so #1000fps. hardly worth discussing.

 

what i have found out that the patterns change when the height of the shotcolumn changes. ~slightly different load.

the .410 has a huge shotcolumn. i`m not really supprised by the different results.

i am a big fan of slower loads.when i did a whole load of starting loads 700fps wasnt un usable. but i burned that off on clay only.

[alendil]

Hi

Is there any one in area of Northallerton/Darlington/Leyburn with .410 mosberg pump hushpower who is willing to show me how loud its working.

its i am after one of this but need to try it first.

 

And is any one seling one of thise or baikal hush.

Thank You

Edited December 8, 2012 by alendil

[ChrisAsh]

surely this is contradictory as range is dictated by pattern velocity per pellet is irrelivent if non get the quarry in the correct vital spot. I am confused by your point

I would think more miss with the smaller diameter pattern than holes in the pattern, just look at the scores the top guys get in skeet with 410's (short range agreed) as well as sporting at 40+metres is not uncommon

 

Agree in the field you need to keep the killing range down, that's why there are different size guns for different ranges to give you a good number of shot hits per target

[bicykillgaz]

Cheers, I have heard the 3" don't pattern too good, that's the main reason I started this thread, to see if a slightly smaller one actually works better

Am I right in saying the average .410 load is around 19gr?

 

 

It depends what choke the gun is most .410's are full choke which is bit tight, I had an anschutz bolt action .410 which was 1/4 choke and it patterned brilliantly with fiocchi magnum 3" 19g no6's. Average .410 load in 21/2 is 11-14g then 3" is 16-18g and some are 19-20g which is really well packed I wouldn't bother putting these through fully choked guns.

[sitsinhedges]

Just get a 20 bore and do the job properly, I've just come home with 7 bunnies shot with an old single 20g moderated pedretti loaded with 24grams of no4 with a fibre wad