Red diesel / VOSA

[Blackpowder]

A little aside from the main theme two major veg processors around here have ceased using lorries from field to processing station, its all done with road tractors and trailers some trips dutring the pea season must approach 25 miles field to factory. So I suppose this is an example of legitimate use of red fuel on roads. Anyone know how much road tax these tractors pay?

 

Blackpowder

[swiss.tony]

Its also the slight case of the origins of the red, either its farmers flogging it on and claiming the vat back and lowering their profits tax wise for cash or its stolen. as a private individual not many places actually sell red direct

 

3 boat yards with in 10 mile of my house all sell red to anybody with a drum its not illegal to buy and 1 Asian garage that lets you put it straight in to your car 13 mile away

[mark@mbb]

Agricultural tax for tractors is free

[Big Mat]

A little aside from the main theme two major veg processors around here have ceased using lorries from field to processing station, its all done with road tractors and trailers some trips dutring the pea season must approach 25 miles field to factory. So I suppose this is an example of legitimate use of red fuel on roads. Anyone know how much road tax these tractors pay?

 

Blackpowder

 

There is a company near to me that hauls trailers of peas up to Scotland using fast traks running on red!

[BRNDL]

 

 

There is a company near to me that hauls trailers of peas up to Scotland using fast traks running on red!

 

Tax avoidance the legitimate way? Controversial

[bedwards1966]

A little aside from the main theme two major veg processors around here have ceased using lorries from field to processing station, its all done with road tractors and trailers some trips dutring the pea season must approach 25 miles field to factory. So I suppose this is an example of legitimate use of red fuel on roads. Anyone know how much road tax these tractors pay?

 

Blackpowder

There is a company near to me that hauls trailers of peas up to Scotland using fast traks running on red!

Tax avoidance the legitimate way? Controversial

 

The road tax on a tractor used for agricultural, horticultural or forestry purposes is free, and they can run on red.

 

However, if they are doing it for someone else (i.e contracting - for hire or reward) then they must tax the vehicle as an HGV, run white fuel and all the other stuff required for HGV's.

 

Obviously it can work out much cheaper to use tractors as they usually get away with it, but if contracting it's illegal - but all they have to do is say/show that they aren't being paid for the work, or that it's their own goods being transported.

A lot of farmers genuinely don't know the law on this, and many more know but obviously want to save money. It's not legal.

[keg]

I had to laugh when i started reading this, some of us berate the big corporates about tax but when we use red we are doing the same thing.

 

I agree there are benefit cheats.

 

I agree that some MPs are a bunch of thieving swines.

 

Do we realy want to be the same as them?. If you are using red illegaly then that is exactly what you are.

 

It is not theft, the government needs cash and whilst fuel tax is high if it wasn't on there it would have to be made up from somewhere else.

 

It is fair in that the more you use, the more you pay. It's unfair in that for most of us it's a necessity.

[Dirty Harry]

 

 

 

 

The road tax on a tractor used for agricultural, horticultural or forestry purposes is free, and they can run on red.

 

Can't use red for horticulture on the road. Tractor with ballon tyres with a grass cutter on red will get seized. Seen it done.

Not sure about forestry either but can't remember off the top of my head.

 

Harry

[la bala]

A friend of mine has a red diesel tank in the boot of his discovery, boxed in and covered in carpet. The main tank has White diesel in and the vehicle runs off the red...

 

He has been dipped once...all is well.

 

I have been offered some red diesel as and when I want it...I will be honest, I am considering it. I drive an Audi A6 so can't really see me being pulled for a dip, at least that's my theory on it.

new pump for audi is about a grand. yes i do know someone it happened to. Edited December 11, 2012 by la bala

[m3vert]

Youve got to laugh on here sometimes! Legit threads get locked up because they may offend some people and then threads like this with people openly telling others they are breaking the law get left to carry on! For those cheating the system, no sorry for those breaking the law I hope you get caught and when it comes to renewal time you lose your cert/FAC.

[keg]

Have to agree there, we cannot pick and choose which laws to obey and which not to.

[utectok]

Seems to me a lot of tax goes on schools NHS and stuff like that I'm afraid I support that kind of spending.

[Trevorevans]

Not condoning the use of red but can see and understand why people do. The price of just about everything is going up, fuel, energy, food bills etc. but I've not had a wage increase of a single penny for years. I bought a 2.8 v6 Audi Quattro second hand about 7 years ago and also had a lotus 7 replica as a toy and could easily afford to run both. Now the 7's gone replaced by a £500 diesel banger (on white lol) for daily use and the Audi only comes out at weekends now and again. I'd rather see a shooter use a couple of litres of red go out and have a good time after a hard weeks work, for which he is taxed, other than have to sit in staring at the cabinet because they can't afford to go anywhere or have to choose between bills and hobbies most of which incurr their own form of tax. These governments would have you do nothing but work as hard as you can tax you as hard as they can and hope you die before pensionable age so they have to give nothing back. Rant over, tin hat on and reaching for my coat.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Trevorevans

[Sprackles]

Not condoning the use of red but can see and understand why people do. The price of just about everything is going up, fuel, energy, food bills etc. but I've not had a wage increase of a single penny for years. I bought a 2.8 v6 Audi Quattro second hand about 7 years ago and also had a lotus 7 replica as a toy and could easily afford to run both. Now the 7's gone replaced by a £500 diesel banger (on white lol) for daily use and the Audi only comes out at weekends now and again. I'd rather see a shooter use a couple of litres of red go out and have a good time after a hard weeks work, for which he is taxed, other than have to sit in staring at the cabinet because they can't afford to go anywhere or have to choose between bills and hobbies most of which incurr their own form of tax. These governments would have you do nothing but work as hard as you can tax you as hard as they can and hope you die before pensionable age so they have to give nothing back. Rant over, tin hat on and reaching for my coat.

 

I'm with you mate.

I agree with fair taxation but when i see the waste, and by that I mean overseas aid, wind farm subsidies, support for economic migrants (posh word for illegals) I object to my hard earned money being taken and squandered by the Government.

Spend it wisely and I will happily accept my burden.

[Blackpowder]

The road tax on a tractor used for agricultural, horticultural or forestry purposes is free, and they can run on red.

 

However, if they are doing it for someone else (i.e contracting - for hire or reward) then they must tax the vehicle as an HGV, run white fuel and all the other stuff required for HGV's.

 

Obviously it can work out much cheaper to use tractors as they usually get away with it, but if contracting it's illegal - but all they have to do is say/show that they aren't being paid for the work, or that it's their own goods being transported.

A lot of farmers genuinely don't know the law on this, and many more know but obviously want to save money. It's not legal.

 

As far as I can see its all own use here, mainly pea harvest then potatoes and just now swedes and sprouts, as long as it helps keep down the price of food I dont mind producers having this subsidy. Must be playing havoc with the road surfaces.

 

Blackpowder

[evo]

got to be honest but i have been amazed at this thread,

 

i cant believe the amount of people on here who have been members for a very long time and who are the first to jump down peoples throats for asking questions ,yet they seem to think it is RIGHT to use red diesel,,using red diesel is just the same as any other law breaking activity,just because you have £500 in your pocket to pay the fine does not make it right.

 

i am amazed how anyone can agree to using red diesel but seems to me there are a lot on here who think it is ok to do it,

 

just ask yourselves this

 

would you tell your FAO you where using red diesel in you car or van when applying or renewing your FAC/SGC if the answer to this is NO then you know you are deliberately breaking the law and should not be doing it

 

if your answer is YES you would tell him then you are just the same as all the other scum in this country ripping the system off and all i would say is " enjoy your golf because you wont be shooting "

 

if you cant afford to run a big engine,d car then simple answer is dont own one,some people just like to look like they have money to be in the crowd, and yet really they are on the bones of their backside,,but this still doesn,t make it right to use red

 

those of you using red, i do hope you get caught and are out of pocket because you are the same as everyone who tries to rip the system off,,and you should not be allowed to own or use firearms as you are participating in an illegal activity,,

[BRNDL]

Youve got to laugh on here sometimes! Legit threads get locked up because they may offend some people and then threads like this with people openly telling others they are breaking the law get left to carry on! For those cheating the system, no sorry for those breaking the law I hope you get caught and when it comes to renewal time you lose your cert/FAC.

 

Nobody on here is breaking the law. Read the topic thread and digest the info then leave another comment...who are we offending, it's a discussion on the rights and wrongs of using red diesel. If anything it fills the gaps for people that have no knowledge of the topic and explains life experiences of other P.W members.

 

Jump off...

[bouncer]

£500 fine, that is what i had when i was caught

[bouncer]

got to be honest but i have been amazed at this thread,

 

i cant believe the amount of people on here who have been members for a very long time and who are the first to jump down peoples throats for asking questions ,yet they seem to think it is RIGHT to use red diesel,,using red diesel is just the same as any other law breaking activity,just because you have £500 in your pocket to pay the fine does not make it right.

 

i am amazed how anyone can agree to using red diesel but seems to me there are a lot on here who think it is ok to do it,

 

just ask yourselves this

 

would you tell your FAO you where using red diesel in you car or van when applying or renewing your FAC/SGC if the answer to this is NO then you know you are deliberately breaking the law and should not be doing it

 

if your answer is YES you would tell him then you are just the same as all the other scum in this country ripping the system off and all i would say is " enjoy your golf because you wont be shooting "

 

if you cant afford to run a big engine,d car then simple answer is dont own one,some people just like to look like they have money to be in the crowd, and yet really they are on the bones of their backside,,but this still doesn,t make it right to use red

 

those of you using red, i do hope you get caught and are out of pocket because you are the same as everyone who tries to rip the system off,,and you should not be allowed to own or use firearms as you are participating in an illegal activity,,

dont suppose you ever broke the law in your life have you.by the way i told them i had ben caught with red diesel on the form.

[BRNDL]

got to be honest but i have been amazed at this thread,

 

i cant believe the amount of people on here who have been members for a very long time and who are the first to jump down peoples throats for asking questions ,yet they seem to think it is RIGHT to use red diesel,,using red diesel is just the same as any other law breaking activity,just because you have £500 in your pocket to pay the fine does not make it right.

 

i am amazed how anyone can agree to using red diesel but seems to me there are a lot on here who think it is ok to do it,

 

just ask yourselves this

 

would you tell your FAO you where using red diesel in you car or van when applying or renewing your FAC/SGC if the answer to this is NO then you know you are deliberately breaking the law and should not be doing it

 

You must be a pillar of your community and withhold the law to it's upmost displaying total perfection to today's legal system.

I think anyone faced with the OPPORTUNITY to save money or make money, weather it's legit or not would take the opportunity. Right from buying a packet of tobacco that Jonboy has smuggled in from France and not paid the duty on, or a booze run for that matter.

Do you speed when driving? I understand this is a motoring offence but an offence the same. Would you tell your FAO that you usually speed whilst driving, or have answered your mobile phone whilst driving, drank a drink, not worn your seat belt...

 

Maybe you feel it's not necessary to inform him of your wrong doing...is it??

 

You are either squeaky clean or NOT, no in-between. I speed whilst driving thus having a disregard for a section of the motoring law, their fore I consider myself to be NOT SQUEEKY CLEAN.

 

I don't know many on P.W, but I would love to here from the members that have NEVER broken a law...

 

 

 

 

if your answer is YES you would tell him then you are just the same as all the other scum in this country ripping the system off and all i would say is " enjoy your golf because you wont be shooting "

 

if you cant afford to run a big engine,d car then simple answer is dont own one,some people just like to look like they have money to be in the crowd, and yet really they are on the bones of their backside,,but this still doesn,t make it right to use red

 

those of you using red, i do hope you get caught and are out of pocket because you are the same as everyone who tries to rip the system off,,and you should not be allowed to own or use firearms as you are participating in an illegal activity,,

 

You must be a pillar of your community and withhold the law to it's upmost displaying total perfection to today's legal system.

I think anyone faced with the OPPORTUNITY to save money or make money, weather it's legit or not would take the opportunity. Right from buying a packet of tobacco that Jonboy has smuggled in from France and not paid the duty on, or a booze run for that matter.

Do you speed when driving? I understand this is a motoring offence but an offence the same. Would you tell your FAO that you usually speed whilst driving, or have answered your mobile phone whilst driving, drank a drink, not worn your seat belt...

 

Maybe you feel it's not necessary to inform him of your wrong doing...is it??

 

You are either squeaky clean or NOT, no in-between. I speed whilst driving thus having a disregard for a section of the motoring law, their fore I consider myself to be NOT SQUEEKY CLEAN.

 

I don't know many on P.W, but I would love to here from the members that have NEVER broken a law...

[BerettaSV10]

 

You are either squeaky clean or NOT, no in-between. I speed whilst driving thus having a disregard for a section of the motoring law,

 

Got caught doing 110 in a 70 many years ago, though for the miles I do would never use red and would not know where to get it from. As a non smoker the money saved from not buying backy goes to pay for the white diesel from the fore court. Still don't like paying the ridiculous high price for the stuff, just hate when they riase the price quickly but never seams to come down when oil prices fall.

[BRNDL]

 

 

Got caught doing 110 in a 70 many years ago, though for the miles I do would never use red and would not know where to get it from. As a non smoker the money saved from not buying backy goes to pay for the white diesel from the fore court. Still don't like paying the ridiculous high price for the stuff, just hate when they riase the price quickly but never seams to come down when oil prices fall.

 

Sometimes is not about what you can and cannot afford, it's the fact you are on the receiving end of legal robbery at the pumps.

[m3vert]

You must be a pillar of your community and withhold the law to it's upmost displaying total perfection to today's legal system.

I think anyone faced with the OPPORTUNITY to save money or make money, weather it's legit or not would take the opportunity. Right from buying a packet of tobacco that Jonboy has smuggled in from France and not paid the duty on, or a booze run for that matter.

Do you speed when driving? I understand this is a motoring offence but an offence the same. Would you tell your FAO that you usually speed whilst driving, or have answered your mobile phone whilst driving, drank a drink, not worn your seat belt...

 

Maybe you feel it's not necessary to inform him of your wrong doing...is it??

 

You are either squeaky clean or NOT, no in-between. I speed whilst driving thus having a disregard for a section of the motoring law, their fore I consider myself to be NOT SQUEEKY CLEAN.

 

I don't know many on P.W, but I would love to here from the members that have NEVER broken a law...

 

BRNDL its funny how folk always quote the speeding ticket simile when talking about law breaking. Yeah speeding is a serious offence and can cause death and injury BUT I think it is unlikely for someone who has been caught speeding once or twice to have a FAC/Cert refused on those grounds alone! Now someone prosecuted for breaking the law by using red diesel and getting caught doing so twice?? My moneys on a refusal!

 

As for your comment to me earlier about this just being a discussion, if you read back the full thread you will see that people are openly talking about breaking the law!

 

Its funny how people get touchy when folk tell them that they are simply no better than the bums who cheat the benefit system, just because its tax they think its ok! Its not and you know its not, you want to take the chance, go ahead but like others I hope you are caught and prosecuted! Oh and has been said enjoy the golf lol

[officerdibble777]

BRNDL its funny how folk always quote the speeding ticket simile when talking about law breaking. Yeah speeding is a serious offence and can cause death and injury BUT I think it is unlikely for someone who has been caught speeding once or twice to have a FAC/Cert refused on those grounds alone! Now someone prosecuted for breaking the law by using red diesel and getting caught doing so twice?? My moneys on a refusal!

 

As for your comment to me earlier about this just being a discussion, if you read back the full thread you will see that people are openly talking about breaking the law!

 

Its funny how people get touchy when folk tell them that they are simply no better than the bums who cheat the benefit system, just because its tax they think its ok! Its not and you know its not, you want to take the chance, go ahead but like others I hope you are caught and prosecuted! Oh and has been said enjoy the golf lol

well put M3vert you own him now,,and I hope he likes the bus too because I hope they crush that nice A6

[BRNDL]

well put M3vert you own him now,,and I hope he likes the bus too because I hope they crush that nice A6

 

You seem to have been very selective on the points to which you have responded here.

1.Are you and have you always been a law obiding citizen? Simple yes or no will sufice.

2. Have you ever taken tobacco, booze or similar that has not had the duty paid?

 

Speeding...I was angling down the lines of being a respectable law abiding citizen that fronts the face of U.K law. A trustworthy character to whom would be the ideal candidate for an FAO. I did not say you would be refused on these grounds and the likely hood of being refused running red diesel would certainly IMO outway that of speeding fines.

 

But of the both which deems you NOT to be an untrustworthy, disrespectful citizen for the UKs rules and regulations. Its a question that can relate to a mass proportion of the population.

 

Answer....cut out the fluffy stuff and they are both along similar lines.......................................................You either uphold the law in totality or pick and choose where you see fit.

I wouldnt take the moral highground unless your are...as I stated in my above post, SQUEEKY CLEAN.

 

You choose not to use red diesel, but you may choose to bend or break the law in other situations...

 

"You own him now"

 

How very American.