Alan Maughan Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Good night. Its a bit early yet but thanks anyway, good night to you to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Peddle your Deity to James Bulger or April Jones or the thousands of children murdered every year. When you have finished doing that collect the 14+ million people who died in the Holocaust and ask their souls to praise the Almighty. Religion is for those scared of dying or too lazy to contemplate the truth. Take a look around the world at the suffering of "his" children you will realise that man was born of bacteria and detritus-and is heading back that way at high speed. Some sympathy with that view. But, like counter-arguments in support of "God" it assumes that Man is a special case. Atheism and faith have one thing in common, namely that it must be all about us. Why so? Why should the existance or otherwise of God stand or fall on a supposed special relationship with and special status of, Man? Why should human suffering mitigate against the existance of God when the equivalent sufferings of other creatures is of no consequence? And why should souls and their salvation be restricted to human beings? It all adds up not to Man created in the image of God, but to God created in the image of Man. But even if we have conjured up God to palliate the awful existential burden that comes with self-awareness, that does not mean that a sentient creator does not exist, just that he/it may be something very different to the humanised entity we have implanted in our minds. The frustrating thing about devout believers and devout atheists alike is that neither of them think nearly big enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Why are some people who do not believe so anxious to disprove and belittle those that do? I was wondering the exact same thing myself. The original poster told us they had been to Church and it was a pleasant experience, they suggested they may go again. When I read this I thought to myself 'great, if your happy, Im happy' - its good to hear nice things, regardless of what they are about. Just as I would be happy to see a report of a member having a 250 bird day. As far as I can see there are no Christians trying to ram any beliefs down anyone's throats here, a good number of people have said things like 'good for you' or ' I believe without going to Church' etc. Then along come the atheists ready to take on anyone who remotely appears to be a believer with the same old stuff about Darwin and the suffering millions. Is there really any need? if you dont like the original posters content then move on to the next thread, why the need to put the subject down? Nicely put. The people that belittle any religion and anyone who has any religious beliefs, will only accept you agreeing with them, sort of, "ramming atheism down your throats". They are the same people who talk about people, "ramming religion down their throats", the irony of the situation is totally lost on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 well each to their own thats what i say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 i came back from the dead once 'tis true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Is it really a surprise that a mind as powerful as the human mind feels the need to invent a creator to explain the frankly unfathomable complexity and sheer scale of the universe ? I make myself dizzy just trying to comprehend what we know about the universe, if you add in all the string theories and dark matter then my feeble brain goes into melt down. Who could blame the sunconscious for inventing an easy to understand "big guy" who looks after it all for us ? That's my idea of religion, but of course it could be completely wrong - the same string theories and dark matter calculations suggest the existence of multiple universes, sometimes an infinite number of universes , I get meltdown even thinking about it, but who can say that there isn't a central intelligence controlling all these universes ? Answer = Nobody ( human ). We just don't know, and the more we learn the more we realize we don't know much at all. Organized religion is a different matter, it's pretty obvious to me that the bible and all the other religious fictions are rubbish, they claim that their books are "truth" but then they "re-interpret" to fit the facts as they emerge. People have been tortured to death for suggesting that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. The latest re-write is about gay marriage - hey, apparently it's fine after all, so no need to burn people at the stake , pity all those victims of early mis-translation of Gods words . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Is it really a surprise that a mind as powerful as the human mind feels the need to invent a creator to explain the frankly unfathomable complexity and sheer scale of the universe ? I make myself dizzy just trying to comprehend what we know about the universe, if you add in all the string theories and dark matter then my feeble brain goes into melt down. Who could blame the sunconscious for inventing an easy to understand "big guy" who looks after it all for us ? That's my idea of religion, but of course it could be completely wrong - the same string theories and dark matter calculations suggest the existence of multiple universes, sometimes an infinite number of universes , I get meltdown even thinking about it, but who can say that there isn't a central intelligence controlling all these universes ? Answer = Nobody ( human ). We just don't know, and the more we learn the more we realize we don't know much at all. Organized religion is a different matter, it's pretty obvious to me that the bible and all the other religious fictions are rubbish, they claim that their books are "truth" but then they "re-interpret" to fit the facts as they emerge. People have been tortured to death for suggesting that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. The latest re-write is about gay marriage - hey, apparently it's fine after all, so no need to burn people at the stake , pity all those victims of early mis-translation of Gods words . Its all still too complected & mind boggling ! what about the parallel world theory ? the super computers calculate it as a fact but the boffins say but how ? & if we do have a parallel world do we exist in that world too ? & why do we exist at all ? & we did not ask to exist so why can't we exist some where else ? why can't there be nothing instead of all that exists ? & if there was nothing then what the bloody hell is nothing ? . Just questions questions questions & none of us has the bloody answer ? , as for myself I think there has to be an answer but I just can't find it but I believe there is a reason but only our death will reveal the answer . Our lives are not about nothing if they were about nothing then nothing would exist ! . The chap who started this thread was happy at church & felt better for being there then why knock him for it ? good on the chap . Surly this has been done to death on PW before & no one could solve the mystery . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) The people that belittle any religion and anyone who has any religious beliefs, will only accept you agreeing with them, sort of, "ramming atheism down your throats". They are the same people who talk about people, "ramming religion down their throats", the irony of the situation is totally lost on them. What he said. I can't stand those extreme evangelical atheists (I'm not mad keen on evangelical religious people either mind), why are they trying so hard to convince others? Isn't it a bit like the closet-bi/gay-curious bloke saying he's going to beat up all the gays he meets...? Methinks they may protest too much. If some person, be it a little old lady going to her village church, or someone going to some inner-city 'discover Christianity' course, does it and it actually ends up being the thing that makes them a better human being then good luck to them. It's nobody's business but theirs. It's not my bag but I respect the fact that it's theirs. We ought to perhaps look at the spirit of the original thread here. No pun intended. OK, pun intended. Edited July 16, 2013 by Thunderbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 We could always bring existentialism into the debate just to really confuse the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 you could waste 2 lifetimes wondering about "the wonder of it all" who cares? live your life as you see fit is the way i see it. some friends of ours are christian, their philosophy is just this "love god, love one another" that's it. seems like a good idea to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 We could always bring existentialism into the debate just to really confuse the issue Yeah let's start with Absurd and end with Despair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Yeah let's start with Absurd and end with Despair Top man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 ....some friends of ours are christian, their philosophy is just this "love god, love one another" that's it. seems like a good idea to me. If God is everything, the universe, and people are just people you can't go far wrong with that . Life is fantastic, and too short to fill with hatred and bigotry, love the good people and ignore the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Heard a wise man once say there is no such thing as an Atheist. We are all believers. We were made that way. Whatever you think of most - that is your god. You either believe in the truth or a lie. The choice is yours. It's called free will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_jay Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 The Darwin/science vs Religion argument is something that always interests me, both have blank areas that need to be filled in by ourselves, which by doing so shows "faith", either way we have to believe something. For me they are both intertwined, and without each other, neither could exist. I think this quote sums it up nicely..... “Science and religion are not at odds. Science is simply too young to understand.” ― Dan Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 The funny thing is, you don't have to be seriously into religion to go to church, as far as I can tell. You take the bits that interest you and inspire you. It was also nice to be around people who weren't ******* and blinding the whole time. I also get a kick out of the history of the buildings, you can sit there and just imagine the history that has gone on in there. I was in Westminster palace whilst doing the trip around parliament last year, and although not a church, it just has that spiritual feel if you know what I mean. I suppose I've always loved 'old'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjm160 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Good for you Una. I was fortunate to have had the benefit of a Christian upbringing (although it did not feel like it at the time with three church visits on a Sunday and two evenings during the week). Fed up of the 'restrictions' and thinking the grass was greener on the other side, I went my own way from 14-21. Far from the care and trouble free experience expected, it was the loneliest and most unfulfilling time of my life. If you are searching, in addition to reading the Bible, finding a local Church where you feel ‘comfortable’ is key. Some prefer to get lost in the crowds of big churches, personally I prefer a smaller gathering. The generic downloads common to many churches on our own church web site, will provide further thought provoking reading and answer some of the many questions common to most; www.cc-cc.org/downloads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screamingdead Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Heard a wise man once say there is no such thing as an Atheist. We are all believers. We were made that way. Whatever you think of most - that is your god. You either believe in the truth or a lie. The choice is yours. It's called free will. I’ve never thought of myself as an atheist – I have no concept of the supernatural or a god but I’ve always respected other people’s beliefs and their right to believe in whatever they need to make themselves happy - but I wish they would show me the same courtesy. Congratulations to the OP if he’s found some happiness through the church, but it’s not for me & never will be. Regards SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 This: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/13/poll_six_kinds_of_non_believers_in_america_partner/ makes quite interesting reading. There are a few 4s in this thread. Glad you enjoyed your visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 There is no god,never has been,there's a soul,but that's energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 There is no god,never has been,there's a soul,but that's energy. Another expert who knows every thing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I'm a Pastafarian! Look it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 The Hindu Vadas. Most biblical texts follow the story of horas who was an egyptian god and i think the oldest religious texts known are the Hindu Sanskrit ones which predate anything else ? No doubt I will be corrected if I am wrong as it the way of PW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 The Darwin/science vs Religion argument is something that always interests me, both have blank areas that need to be filled in by ourselves, which by doing so shows "faith", either way we have to believe something. For me they are both intertwined, and without each other, neither could exist. I think this quote sums it up nicely..... “Science and religion are not at odds. Science is simply too young to understand.”― Dan Brown Even Darwin called on the services of a priest on his deathbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Another expert who knows every thing ! mmm,look around you mate,if as many people were,killing,abusing,hurting for the last 2000 years in my name I think I would have turned up and corrected them,if Gods your thing thats fine by me,i'm not expert but if you had walked in my shoes for an hour you would know better. Even Darwin called on the services of a priest on his deathbed that would be fear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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