Help need to hit pigeons

[motty]

Before you start looking at gunfit, pattern and so on just keep at it. I've only really shot clays, did a couple of pheasant days and thought this shooting birds lark is easy.

 

Then I had a day out with action pigeons off here. It took me 32 shots before I dropped a pigeon. The difference between clays and pigeons is phenomenal. You have to give 2/3 times the lead that you would a clay. Plus the adrenalin, and the fact that clay shooting you already have the gun mounted, whereas with pigeons you have a split second to mount and shoot.

 

My advice from a fellow newbie would be take an experienced shooter out with you and listen to everything they say. Don't get too caught up worrying about spread, gun fit and all that. Just relax and practice and enjoy. ATB 425

This simply isn't correct. A pigeon flying the same speed as a clay and in the same direction requires exactly the same lead.

 

My advice to the OP would be to practice skeet regularly and get fairly good at it. When you can hit 80% of birds on skeet then you should be able to hit decoying pigeons quite well. Try to get the pigeons into skeet type ranges. When I shot 87 last week, a good percentage of the birds were under 20 yards. This makes your job easier and your confidence should increase.

There is always an optimum moment to shoot a pigeon, too. In time you will learn when to shoot them - this is quite important. Watch videos of people successfully shooting pigeons and see how they do it.

I would also advise using an ounce of 7 or 7.5. This gives a lot of pellets in your pattern to bring down your birds.

[Piney95]

I also have a Beretta A300 Outlander and have Modified, Imporved cylinder and a Teague skeet choke. I mainly keep the Modified in the gun as it is the best all rounder i have found from rabbits and foxes to pigeons and rooks, recently however i have started to use the improved cylinder for closer targets such as decoying birds, to good effect too, but i prefer the modified as you just get that extra reach you sometimes need, and on alot of the closing birds you are aiming right at them. A good course of action in my mind is to wack in the improved cylinder and get warmed up with that knocking a few birds down and getting comfortable then putting in the modified, i found i couldn't feel the difference between the two except with modified it had that slight extra reach.

Also another not I got told when i got my outlander is that you have to have your head down on the stock and not have it too high, i did this for a while and missed everything that moved hahaa, but once i locked my head to the stock it was great just avoid raising your head when you get excited. on this note to help this i got a i believe it is called ruby red dot? not quite sure if that is it but its identical to the Champion Easy Hit target i have the long red version. and this prevents you seeing any red bead unless your eye is correctly aligned so you dont have to shut an eye it is fantastic! i would definately recommend it!

i use 30gm 6s or 32gms 5s or 6s for the majority of game birds and rabbits etc, no more is necessary and they run smooth as silk through the gun too.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Piney95

[Browning 425 clay hunter]

This simply isn't correct. A pigeon flying the same speed as a clay and in the same direction requires exactly the same lead.

 

Yes I completely agree. But the only day I've been pigeon shooting was a windy day and out of all of the clay grounds I've been I've never had a clay come close to the speed of the pigeons I shot at. I was shooting them as if they were clays and once my guide advised me to double the lead I dropped 8 pigeons out of the next 20 shots compared to missing 32 shots so for me it worked.

 

I've seen some of your posts and know you've shot a hell of a lot more pigeons than me and enjoy some of your write ups but I stand by my advice. It worked for me out in the field so might work for another novice.

 

[fenboy]

This simply isn't correct. A pigeon flying the same speed as a clay and in the same direction requires exactly the same lead.

 

Yes I completely agree. But the only day I've been pigeon shooting was a windy day and out of all of the clay grounds I've been I've never had a clay come close to the speed of the pigeons I shot at. I was shooting them as if they were clays and once my guide advised me to double the lead I dropped 8 pigeons out of the next 20 shots compared to missing 32 shots so for me it worked.

 

I've seen some of your posts and know you've shot a hell of a lot more pigeons than me and enjoy some of your write ups but I stand by my advice. It worked for me out in the field so might work for another novice.

 

But you are giving that advice to a new shooter , and it is incorrect , if he followed it he would just miss in front instead of behind .

Motty is quite correct that a clay and a pigeon travelling at the same speed will need the same lead .

 

Pigeons can be quick , they can be slow and lead needs adjusting accordingly , the birds you shot at were fast so needed a fair bit of lead the ones the OP could be shooting may be slow , so if he gave it "three times the lead of a clay" he will almost certainly miss in front.

 

The main difference is that a clay once it leaves the trap is only ever going to slow down , a pigeon may well be speeding up if its spotted your movement , pigeon shooting is exactly the same as clay as in you need to read the target and give the correct lead .

[Browning 425 clay hunter]

But you are giving that advice to a new shooter , and it is incorrect , if he followed it he would just miss in front instead of behind .

Motty is quite correct that a clay and a pigeon travelling at the same speed will need the same lead .

 

Once again I agree, but twice I have been highlighted for this, but not once have I said anywhere that a bird and a clay the same speed would need differing amounts of lead. Maybe I could have made my point more clear. I'm sure you both have much more experience and advice to offer than I do on the pigeons but saying 'increasing the lead simply isn't true' IMO isn't correct.

 

 

The very reason I offer this advice is because it worked for me. As a newbie I didn't realise how much faster pigeons were than the clays in the conditions I shot in. On a calm day you might not need as much lead.

 

Also the point about him following my advice and shooting In front of the bird with too much lead, well surely any shooter would adjust the lead as they shoot. I kept catching the back ends so gave more lead and it worked instantly. The advice I was giving was meant to illustrate the point. Not that clays and birds at same speed need different leads. I thought that would be obvious.

 

It's just a suggestion that WORKED FOR ME and might work for him, nobody on here can say exactly why he's missing. I was told its a common issue that novice pigeon shooters do.

 

I'm not saying my advice is gospel truth. Just it worked for me so it might be worth a try, if it doesn't work then after a few shots no harm done. Let us know how you get on next time out. ATB 425

[Cosd]

 

But you are giving that advice to a new shooter , and it is incorrect , if he followed it he would just miss in front instead of behind .

Motty is quite correct that a clay and a pigeon travelling at the same speed will need the same lead .

 

Once again I agree, but twice I have been highlighted for this, but not once have I said anywhere that a bird and a clay the same speed would need differing amounts of lead. Maybe I could have made my point more clear. I'm sure you both have much more experience and advice to offer than I do on the pigeons but saying 'increasing the lead simply isn't true' IMO isn't correct.

 

 

The very reason I offer this advice is because it worked for me. As a newbie I didn't realise how much faster pigeons were than the clays in the conditions I shot in. On a calm day you might not need as much lead.

 

Also the point about him following my advice and shooting In front of the bird with too much lead, well surely any shooter would adjust the lead as they shoot. I kept catching the back ends so gave more lead and it worked instantly. The advice I was giving was meant to illustrate the point. Not that clays and birds at same speed need different leads. I thought that would be obvious.

 

It's just a suggestion that WORKED FOR ME and might work for him, nobody on here can say exactly why he's missing. I was told its a common issue that novice pigeon shooters do.

 

I'm not saying my advice is gospel truth. Just it worked for me so it might be worth a try, if it doesn't work then after a few shots no harm done. Let us know how you get on next time out. ATB 425

 

I think the point is you simply can't give someone advice on how much lead to give on any target without being there since there are so many factors which need to be considered.

 

No one has said it didn't work for you on that particular day, but you will find out the same lead will not work every time.

 

Cos

Edited June 16, 2014 by Cosd

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Blimey, you will be confusing the poor old OP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This forum has a cracking system to quote earlier posts, it really is very simple to use!

[mick miller]

To be honest, the single biggest factor for me in turning me from an average shot to an above average shot was gunfit.

 

My gun was simply way to short for me so I always saw too much rib. Having it fitted correctly upped my average overnight. If you shoot a rifle often this can also result in you stopping the gun, my biggest problem and one that I have to relearn over the first few shots everytime I go out. You must keep moving the gun and swing through.

 

Pigeon shooting is challenging, a clay follows a set trajectory, whereas a pigeon, as soon as you pop your head up, will jink, hover and completely reverse direction! So keep at it and don't get too disheartened.

 

Regarding choking, I agree with the other comments, I shoot half and half but three quarter seems too tight to start out with; more open choking, let the birds come in closer and try not to move until you need to.

Edited June 17, 2014 by mick miller

[marsh man]

All sound advice, but what it shows is the amount of different combinations we all use , chokes, cartridges , lead ,how far decoys are placed, and so on. We can all offer advice on how it work for us, but the advice I would give the op is try and find an old hand at pigeon shooting and offer him a day on his perm to show him what he is doing right or wrong and offer to cover any costs, but like most of us our help and advice is free, if the person knows the game who takes him, the op can learn more in a day than he can reading all the different posts on hear, The hard bit now is finding somebody to help him out.

[KFC]

I would echo Mick Miller. I added a butt pad to my gun which helped to hold the muzzle down because I was missing over the top. Personally, I put gun fit first because, if it doesn't fit properly, I will be inconsistent.

Once I know the gun fits me then I can concentrate on the rest. Bum, body, beak, bang with the bead swinging through the bird's feet is my technique.

[ditchman]

SHOOT SOME SKEET....if you miss one keep on shooting the same bird until you hit it..........and take a mate to stand behind you and watch.............use cyl/i/4 choke and 7's..oz/28gm...

[camokid]

i too cant hit a barn door i went claying with a chap from here and smashed clays all day i was better than some folk that had been there years.. i just cant seam to hit anything and lack of practice makes me never improve and lessons are just too expensive its a real downer and i often think of ending my sgc....

 

i think my major problem is a treat it like a rifle

[Mentalmac]

i too cant hit a barn door i went claying with a chap from here and smashed clays all day i was better than some folk that had been there years.. i just cant seam to hit anything and lack of practice makes me never improve and lessons are just too expensive its a real downer and i often think of ending my sgc....

 

i think my major problem is a treat it like a rifle

I find that If I shoot the shotgun too soon after the rifle, I don't swing through I tend to stop the gun.

Perhaps give yourself a few days break before picking up the shotgun?

[pontbeck]

SHOOT SOME SKEET....if you miss one keep on shooting the same bird until you hit it..........and take a mate to stand behind you and watch.............use cyl/i/4 choke and 7's..oz/28gm...

The best advice. If you miss a clay target you can repeat until your successful , if you miss a pigeon you may not have a similar bird and not be able to replicate the shot. Be competent at clays before you attempt to shoot live quarry.

[ditchman]

another common problem is MUZZLEING it is so easy to see a bird and raise your gun into your shoulder and track it allllll the way in..........DONT......all you need to do is to slighty raise the gun...and watch the bird and when it is fit to be shot....UP AND THRO..BANG........

[Scully]

Firstly, your mount is EVERYTHING. If you can't mount a moving gun consistently in the correct place each and every time you mount it then your shooting will be inconsistent as a result.

If your mount is inconsistent then you can forget about 'fit'. No one can fit a gun to someone with an inconsistent mount.

With an empty gun stand in front of a mirror with your eyes closed. Push the muzzles away from you as you bring the gun up more or less horizontally (don't use a see-saw action to mount the gun) and then back into your shoulder. Open your right eye (if right handed). Can you see your eye? If so where is it in relation to the rib? Ideally it should be looking right down that rib. If not then close your eyes again and repeat, making the slight adjustment you think is needed to place that eye where it should be. Practise this everyday until the gun comes up in the right place each and every time you do it. This is how you develop muscle memory.

There are no quick fits I'm afraid, but do this every night and it will pay dividends. A few lessons with a good coach will also be well worth the money, and will get your feet sorted also. which is another important aspect of consistent shooting.

You mention 'aiming'; are you closing one eye? If not, then forget about aiming; aiming implies you're looking at the front bead when 101% of your concentration should be on the target.

Once your mount is consistent (and it's not going to happen overnight) then just sweep those barrels Through those crossers, and your natural instinct will tell you when to pull that trigger, you will see a puff of white feathers and down it comes.

1/4 choke is more than capable, and 36 grm is far too much recoil than you need. Clear Pigeon are a good pigeon load; they'll do bolting bunnies too.

Obviously, there's a lot more to it than that, but a consistent mount is a good place to start. And as someone else said; take your time. When you've got a bit more experience you'll realise there is no rush at all. If you rush, then your mount turns to **** and you'll miss anyways, so there's no point rushing.

[DRWC]

I don't think this has been mentioned before, but I found watching some of the headcam/gopro videos that you see around quite helpful. Some are better than others and they only give a very approximate idea of what someone else sees when they pull the trigger, but they certainly helped me.

[JDog]

With so many expert replies you are bound to get sorted Lloydi.

[The Essex Hunter]

Still waiting for his response's.....

 

TEH

[lloydi73]

Still waiting for his response's.....

 

TEH

Sorry lads, went out on the permissions yesterday to put some of the advice into action...yes, changed the choke to IC and had some improvement, wel lot better actually!! Gonna try the modified 1/2 choke next week when I go back to see difference again . Got a session on the pattern plate booked in for Saturday morning also.

 

I'll keep you updated how I get on next week as I'm keen to give the bum, body, beak a go.....can't remember it all at once lol

 

But thanks for all your input, help and advice....

[The Essex Hunter]

Sorry lads, went out on the permissions yesterday to put some of the advice into action...yes, changed the choke to IC and had some improvement, wel lot better actually!! Gonna try the modified 1/2 choke next week when I go back to see difference again . Got a session on the pattern plate booked in for Saturday morning also.

 

I'll keep you updated how I get on next week as I'm keen to give the bum, body, beak a go.....can't remember it all at once lol

 

But thanks for all your input, help and advice....

Leave the ic in!

So how far are you setting the decoys from the hide etc....The birds have switched on the milky wheat my way...saw 400+ on a 6 acre field this afternoon...

 

TEH

[lloydi73]

Leave the ic in!

So how far are you setting the decoys from the hide etc....The birds have switched on the milky wheat my way...saw 400+ on a 6 acre field this afternoon...

 

TEH

It's funny you should mention 400 odd pigeons.....when I was up at farm yesterday, there were about 80 pigeons sat on 2 sets of phone lines directly above the Barley.... I haven't seen that many in a flock up there to date all in one place. I'm setting decoys about 25ft max out from hide....

[The Essex Hunter]

It's funny you should mention 400 odd pigeons.....when I was up at farm yesterday, there were about 80 pigeons sat on 2 sets of phone lines directly above the Barley.... I haven't seen that many in a flock up there to date all in one place. I'm setting decoys about 25ft max out from hide....

Feet or yards!!!

 

TEH

[Guest stevo]

Haha I hope that's yards lloyd .else there going some fast birds mate . if that is 25 ft . I wouldn't worry too much about what choke you use .

 

Keep at it mate . And remember every one one this site has either been there or is still there .

 

Stevo

[Cosd]

Sorry lads, went out on the permissions yesterday to put some of the advice into action...yes, changed the choke to IC and had some improvement, wel lot better actually!! Gonna try the modified 1/2 choke next week when I go back to see difference again . Got a session on the pattern plate booked in for Saturday morning also.

 

I'll keep you updated how I get on next week as I'm keen to give the bum, body, beak a go.....can't remember it all at once lol

 

But thanks for all your input, help and advice....

 

 

Glad you've made some progress.

Just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't change your choke. Keep to that for a while, and once you have a consistent kill/cart ratio, then you can think about changing the choke. IC will drop a bird easily at 40+ yards, so you have a very good range in that without needing to go tighter just yet...

 

Either way, well done!!

 

 

Cos