aris Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 If auctioneering is such easy money - why isn't everyone doing it? You always have the option to advertise yourself and sell direct. For guns - there are places like Guntrader/Gunstar/Gunwatch. For Art, there are countless online galleries. For everything else, there are places like eBay. At the end of the day, these places offer a service, and charge accordingly. It is a free market - nobody has a monopoly on selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 If auctioneering is such easy money - why isn't everyone doing it? You always have the option to advertise yourself and sell direct. For guns - there are places like Guntrader/Gunstar/Gunwatch. For Art, there are countless online galleries. For everything else, there are places like eBay. At the end of the day, these places offer a service, and charge accordingly. It is a free market - nobody has a monopoly on selling. Well said that man ! All Auctions show the costs in black and white If you dont like the costs Dont bid ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 You always have the option to advertise yourself and sell direct. For guns - there are places like Guntrader/Gunstar/Gunwatch. For Art, there are countless online galleries. For everything else, there are places like eBay. At the end of the day, these places offer a service, and charge accordingly. It is a free market - nobody has a monopoly on selling. I was merely offering an observation really, rather than a complaint. After all,there's nothing any of us can do regarding the 'balance'. I agree with most of the above and as I said, everyone wants their cut, which for a commercial outlet is nothing more than business. We can choose to sell and buy via various ways, but no one buys investment art from on-line galleries as the prestige and collector 'value' that peer acknowledgement gained from established galleries doesn't exist. The same applies, as far as I know, with firearms; you wont find that 'collector' piece on-line unless it is being sold via a collectors site or RFD on which the seller/buyer premium has already been paid at auction and is included in the price it is being offered for. No one sells at a loss. It's just business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think the buyers premium is coming to all auctions steadily. But if there's two dispersal sales on the same day and one of the auctioneers doesnt charge buyers premium, thats the one I go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Well said that man ! All Auctions show the costs in black and white If you dont like the costs Dont bid ! Exactly what I did. I no longer buy from auction houses that charge so much to the buyer. I understand that they must make a profit but some of the costs involved just seem very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 When I sell anything. I apply criteria. If I just want to get rid, I put it in the local auction and anything I make is a bonus. If I want to get most of the money for it I put it on Preloved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 The big problem is money. As an atrist ( let me genralise here ) you sit at home and paint in your kitchen, study or shed, with no on cost. When you go to sell it, you think of a figure. Do you base it on 5 hours at 25 pounds an hour? Do you just say I feel that is worth 100 pounds? Right, you have a price at your door. Now, where do you sell? The only free places are gumtree etc. Not great. Ebay, ok that will be 10%. Not good, as 1000s of other work on there and you can't understand the art on line that well. Small galleries often run by artists making little to no money, many not surviving, but it is for the art, correct, not business? Say 25%. Now, we move on to galleries who have proper expensive retail space, a number of paid staff there to talk to the customers and sell. You have insurance, rent, rates, storage space etc. If, as an artist you take over 30% of the floor / wall space, within the commision, that has to clear 30% of the shops "cost". However, the shop takes a punt they will sell. If they do, quids in for the shop, if not, the shop has taken no money. So, these galleries want 30 - 40%. London space is astranomical, so 50 - 60% on is very fair. The alternative is to buy or rent a shop, staff it, insure it, light and heat it, promote it, pay PDQ charges etc etc and hope you sell enough to cover the overheads, but you will probably need to put 50% on top of you first thought figure to cover the outgoings. One good thing for galleries / shops who are VAT registered is with unique art, you can do VAT on special scheme whereby you only pay the 20% VAT on a profit. General retail markup is 2.4. This is how shops exist. If you want me, as a gallery to sell your print and make 5pounds profit, I will need to sell 1000s a week to make it pay. Can't really argue with any of that. As I said, it wasn't really a complaint as such. It is all about money, and it's all relative; higher the overheads then higher the commission, and the higher I price my work. I realise you are generalising, but would just add that unless it is an exclusive one man show, no artist takes up 30% of a galleries wall space, and no gallery would settle for 5 pounds on a print. As for 'it is for the art, not the money?' then yes and no. I could make a very good living sitting at home churning out paintings\drawings of peoples pets, but it would drive me insane, so I paint more or less what I like to paint, but primarily only subject matter which I know will sell. Commercial galleries only hang commercial art, and no one works simply to cover overheads. Profit margins can vary alarmingly and it is this that can determine whether or not the seller or buyer (in the terms of an auction) feels 'ripped off'. You can't really be ripped off if you're aware of these premiums before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Well said that man ! All Auctions show the costs in black and white If you dont like the costs Dont bid ! Well said very true Bosh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern01 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I recently sold a load of stuff via an auction house in South Yorkshire and at the valuation / appraisal stage I negotiated the sellers premium down to !8 % including vat. It was good stuff which they knew would sell well and didn't want to pass the opportunity onto their rivals. Its worth a try. By the way eBay & Paypal charges together amount to 15% and you have all the hassle of listing, packing, posting etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 At the end of the day, you don't have to buy at auction and if you get stung by not taking commission into consideration, tough luck. But it's entirely possible to get huge bargains by buying at auction - you just have to make yourself aware of the process! Hi RossEM I agree you can get some real bargains at auction including commission, that is the name of the game and I will keep using other houses if I need another gun. But it's the 25% plus VAT which I find outrages. Out of interest do you know why sellers of guns use auction houses because they can't get much from most guns sold. I can understand the person who is selling Grandad's pair of H&H etc and old stock clearance for RFD's, but do general joe public bother. It's the last place I'd sell a gun but the first place I look to buy. I think vendors receive more money by selling at auction than by selling to a dealer/shop (especially if the gun happens to be an English BLNE.) Private sales are the way forward if you don't want to pay commission of any sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12boreblue Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I was thinking of going to an auction to buy some shooting bits, then I read the terms!!!There is only one real winner at an Auction, and that's without the 'plants' in the audience that 'up' the bids, used to happen a lot at the livestock auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I was thinking of going to an auction to buy some shooting bits, then I read the terms!!!There is only one real winner at an Auction, and that's without the 'plants' in the audience that 'up' the bids, used to happen a lot at the livestock auctions. I have picked up a lot of bargains at auctions. I have also seen a lot of fools pay silly money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Its because they can and while people will buy and pay they will keep doing it . If every one refused to pay it or just didn't buy then they might just have a re-think . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 It's because they are running a business, look at the 60 to 100% markup lots of shops operate at and they start to look like a bargain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 It's because they are running a business, look at the 60 to 100% markup lots of shops operate at and they start to look like a bargain It's a bit different to retail though isn't it. Retail you have to invest in stock. Auction houses have no stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecash Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 when i was a lad the seller paid a 10% commission to the auction house and that was it. Nowadays as peeps have said the auction houses, take a large cut, from both the buyer and the seller, ending up with a very nice slice thank you very much. Then there are the hangers on squeezing a slice from internet bidders, Conflicts of interest and rip offs? who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 At the end of the day, you don't have to buy at auction and if you get stung by not taking commission into consideration, tough luck. But it's entirely possible to get huge bargains by buying at auction - you just have to make yourself aware of the process! Hi RossEM I agree you can get some real bargains at auction including commission, that is the name of the game and I will keep using other houses if I need another gun. But it's the 25% plus VAT which I find outrages. Out of interest do you know why sellers of guns use auction houses because they can't get much from most guns sold. I can understand the person who is selling Grandad's pair of H&H etc and old stock clearance for RFD's, but do general joe public bother. It's the last place I'd sell a gun but the first place I look to buy. My own opinion is, and I know this from experience, that people choose to sell at auction because a lot of shops will literally give you £25 for your old side by side boxlock non ejector, whereas you'd get back a fair bit more at auction. Again, a secondhand Beretta 686 20 bore will normally reach £750-£800 at auction, but a shop or RFD will offer you £500-£550. I quite agree that auctions tend to be a better place to buy - that doesn't just stand for guns, unless your item is very unusual, collectable or otherwise desirable. I am surprised at the rates of commission that some places charge - ultimately 'prestige' counts for a lot, and if your gun has been through Sotheby's (for instance) that will actually add to it's value. Holt's, not so much. It's because they are running a business, look at the 60 to 100% markup lots of shops operate at and they start to look like a bargain Nail hit right on the head there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe joe Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 its total rip off , little posh boys , making big bucks out of clowns with pay off s and pensions pots , for 1970s scrap yard rubbish, fools and money , backed up by sad tv programs , in few year these cars will be worth nothing , most you today can't wait to get 1970s maxi what fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 Easily sorted just don't buy from auctions. They will then have a choice drop the greed or go out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 18 hours ago, joe joe said: its total rip off , little posh boys , making big bucks out of clowns with pay off s and pensions pots , for 1970s scrap yard rubbish, fools and money , backed up by sad tv programs , in few year these cars will be worth nothing , most you today can't wait to get 1970s maxi what fun 🤔 Think you've missed the point a bit there matey... Back to gun auctions. So long as they have a prominent notice some where stating the various charges its up to the buyer to fix a total spend amount and not go beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 I will not buy at auctions. I understand the principal that the. Seller pays the auctioneers commission for storing and selling the item. They receive a service. But what does the buyer receive for the extra premium. Also along with the buyers fees some auctions are charging for catlouges. As an entry fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Another thread bought back to life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Another thread bought back to life! Probably because it's no less relevant today than five years ago. More so in fact with some of these places charging up to 30% commission and buyer premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 I can't see what the problem is, you know what the buyers premium is and the vat is so just decide what you are willing to pay in total take the premium and vat off then you are left with you maximum bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, manthing said: 🤔 Think you've missed the point a bit there matey... It was a great introduction wasn't it 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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