The film Zulu has it got a place in 2014

[four-wheel-drive]

As was the case back in the day ,Regiments were made up of people from all over the British isle.

 

Welshmen at Rorke's Drift

Once again, the film 'Zulu' makes a point of suggesting that the 24th Regiment, and in particular 'B' Company, was mainly Welsh. In fact, the Welsh constituted only 11% of the 24th. Regt. at Rorke's Drift. Although the regiment was then based in Brecon in South Wales and called the 24th. Regiment of Foot (later to be the South Wales Borderers), it was formerly the Warwickshire Regiment. Many of the defenders had never been to Brecon.

Of the 24th Regt. at the defence, the numbers (Source: 'The Noble 24th. by Norman Holme), 49 were English, 18 Monmouthshire,16 Irish, 1 Scottish, 14 Welsh and 21 of unknown nationality. 'This is a Welsh regiment, although there are some foreigners in it mind'.

I think that you will find that Monmouthshire is in wales so that would 18 +16 = 32 are welsh like it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouthshire

[Jaymo]

*** this constant apologizing has got to stop.

 

I am not going to apologize for something one of my ancestors may have done 130 years ago

How far back should we go?

I blame the Romans for the low pay in Norfolk , should the Italians pay me compensation

I am personally responsible for my actions NOW ! That's all.

 

 

RANT OVER

 

P.S. great film

Dam right, we cant and shouldnt even try to erase the past just to bow down to groups in the present.

Its thiese attitudes which means that 'Dave and Gold' only have the same old re-runs and non of the 70's classics that if we are perfectly honest,call enjoy

[welsh1]

I think that you will find that Monmouthshire is in wales so that would 18 +16 = 32 are welsh like it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouthshire

From your own link,Monmouthshire was a bit of a conundrum and parts of it were controlled by England parts by Wales,You are correct they would have been Welsh,but people from Monmouthshire were put in their own category.

 

The second Laws in Wales Act of 1542 enumerated the counties of Wales and omitted Monmouthshire – This led to ambiguity as to whether the county was part of Wales or England.

 

Another link for you,

http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/mon.htm

[welshwarrior]

Great film more VC won in that single action than any other.

 

Proud of my family, regiments and countries involvements, and even more so having seen the respect the Zulus in the area have for them.

[Zapp]

At the time of the battle, the 24th was still the 2nd Warwickshire Regt, so an English Regiment, though it did recruit quite extensively in South Wales.

 

The whole "it's a Welsh Regiment man" thing was a precondition of Stanley Baker's involvement in the film. He was a big name actor and an ardent Welsh nationalist, and he demanded that it be skewed so as to give the impression that the 24th was a Welsh Regiment at the time of the battle - which it wasnt until it became the South Wales Borderers in 1881.

 

Also, the comment earlier in the thread about the rifles having a sub 100 yard range is incorrect, the Martini Henry had an effective range comparable with modern service rifles (300-400m).

 

Whilst the politics behind the war are questionable to say the least, it's a great film about a notable action which is honoured by the Zulus as much as by ourselves, which is pretty sporting of them considering that the huge medal haul was in no small part a political decision to wrench a good news story out of the loss of an entire British column at Isandlwana the day before, thereby sparing Lord Chelmsford and Disraeli's blushes.

[neillfrbs]

v good classic film ,love it . as for it being racist. get a life no wonder the country is in the state it is.

[rich1985]

Is it racist?

 

By God yes it is! Such a film would most certainly NOT be made today.

 

It`s portrayal of the Welsh as a lot of country bumpkin dimwits sent off to the far flung corners of Empire,miles from any sheep, to fight and die for the evil English would simply not be allowed in these devolved and enlightened times.

 

The only true part of this gross misrepresentation of ethnic stereotypes is the fact that ALL Welshmen, for some strange reason known only to themselves, think they can sing![/qu

 

 

 

Get a grip. It's a briant film, I suppose you will say christmas is racist next as it mite offend. Why shouldn't such a film be made now, this country needs to stop being a soft touch and stuff all the political correctness that comes with it!

[Whitebridges]

We used to have a very noble gent called Chard who used to grace these pages.

[WGD]

v good classic film ,love it . as for it being racist. get a life no wonder the country is in the state it is.

Couldn't have put it better.

[shaun4860]

It is because of Zulu that I own a Greener GP Single barrel Martini action.....

 

[kdubya]

Is it racist?

 

By God yes it is! Such a film would most certainly NOT be made today.

 

It`s portrayal of the Welsh as a lot of country bumpkin dimwits sent off to the far flung corners of Empire,miles from any sheep, to fight and die for the evil English would simply not be allowed in these devolved and enlightened times.

 

The only true part of this gross misrepresentation of ethnic stereotypes is the fact that ALL Welshmen, for some strange reason known only to themselves, think they can sing![/qu

 

 

 

Get a grip. It's a briant film, I suppose you will say christmas is racist next as it mite offend. Why shouldn't such a film be made now, this country needs to stop being a soft touch and stuff all the political correctness that comes with it!

have you come across the term "tongue in cheek"?

 

 

KW

[four-wheel-drive]

The real problem with this hole PC way of thinking that seems to be taking over is everything is getting more and more bland I have given up watching any comedians on TV as to me they just are not funny just embarrassing to watch as they are so pathetic I can only assume that they are pumping in laughing gas to make the audience so high as it cannot be the rubbish that they are hearing.

Edited December 27, 2014 by four-wheel-drive

[AULD YIN]

The real problem with this hole PC way of thinking that seems to be taking over is everything is getting more and more bland I have given up watching any comedians on TV as to me they just are not funny just embarrassing to watch as they are so pathetic I can only assume that they are pumping in laughing gas to make the audience so high as it cannot be the rubbish that they are hearing.

+1

[Zapp]

A few more choice facts to add to the bit about Henry Hook not being a reprobate (he was a model soldier)...

 

CSgt Bourne was not the big barrel chested man as portrayed by Nigel Green in the film. He was only 24 at the time of the battle, and was the youngest Colour Sergeant in the entire British Army when he reached the rank at the age of 22. He was known as "The Boy" by the other soldiers in the 24th, and was only 5'4" (I think, I will check this), which by his own admission, "brought him down a peg" when he found out what his nickname was. He died on VE Day as a Lt Colonel, as the highest career ranked soldier to have fought at the battle.

 

Lt Bromhead was profoundly deaf, and was, as well as a very brave man, by all accounts a bit of a duffer, and so was detached from the column to mind a supply station while it went ahead.

 

Lt Chard RE, whilst also a very brave man, was said in some private letters to be rather 'dull'. Whether that meant stupid or boring is not made clear.

 

The unsung hero of the battle, at least where the film is concerned, is James Langley Dalton. It is mentioned that he got the VC, but he is portrayed as a rather effeminate man who helps handing out ammunition to the soldiers on the firing line. In fact, he was a former infantry Staff Sergeant with extensive campaign service who had joined the Army Commissariat (the equivalent to the Royal Logistic Corps nowadays) on retirement. Many contemporary sources credit him with organising the defence and telling Chard and Bromhead how to manage the battle.

[matone]

The film wouldn't have such success if it was a gang of brummies would it?

Is that racist?

It would have needed subtitles.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Lol!

 

Thanks Zapp for explaning some of the questionable parts of the film.

Edited December 28, 2014 by TIGHTCHOKE

[four-wheel-drive]

A few more choice facts to add to the bit about Henry Hook not being a reprobate (he was a model soldier)...

 

CSgt Bourne was not the big barrel chested man as portrayed by Nigel Green in the film. He was only 24 at the time of the battle, and was the youngest Colour Sergeant in the entire British Army when he reached the rank at the age of 22. He was known as "The Boy" by the other soldiers in the 24th, and was only 5'4" (I think, I will check this), which by his own admission, "brought him down a peg" when he found out what his nickname was. He died on VE Day as a Lt Colonel, as the highest career ranked soldier to have fought at the battle.

 

Lt Bromhead was profoundly deaf, and was, as well as a very brave man, by all accounts a bit of a duffer, and so was detached from the column to mind a supply station while it went ahead.

 

Lt Chard RE, whilst also a very brave man, was said in some private letters to be rather 'dull'. Whether that meant stupid or boring is not made clear.

 

The unsung hero of the battle, at least where the film is concerned, is James Langley Dalton. It is mentioned that he got the VC, but he is portrayed as a rather effeminate man who helps handing out ammunition to the soldiers on the firing line. In fact, he was a former infantry Staff Sergeant with extensive campaign service who had joined the Army Commissariat (the equivalent to the Royal Logistic Corps nowadays) on retirement. Many contemporary sources credit him with organising the defence and telling Chard and Bromhead how to manage the battle.

Its probably best not to look into these things to much as with most films they tend to use a lot of poetic license in troth films just tend to be a rough outline of of some event in the past and should not be taken as fact if you want that I am afraid you will have to do some research as it would seem you have done.

[NickP]

Personally I think it's one of the all time great films, part of the it happened and a film made about it films, unfortunately as with all films based on true events, there's going to be a bit of a artistic licence on characters and goings on

[chrisjh]

I personally enjoy the film and put the events into the context of the time not only when it was made but also when its depicted.

 

A friend of mine tells an amusing story from when he was called to a disturbance at a rap concert, as he lined up with his fellow officers about to enter and quell the fighting he started singing "Men of Harlech"

[station]

Can't believe this thread has gone this long without the story of -

the Great Great Uncle who died at the battle of Rourkes Drift

Edited December 28, 2014 by station

[Harnser]

All very interesting Zapp , thank you . Goes to show how Hollywood interprets a true storey . One of my favourite movies of all times . As for being racist a load of old tosh .

 

Harnser

[islandgun]

Can't believe this thread has gone this long without the story of -

the Great Great Uncle who died at the battle of Rourkes Drift

My great great uncle Enezezelo Bongani, survived Rourkes Drift and lived on until 48yrs old as a goat herder

[station]

My great great uncle Enezezelo Bongani, survived Rourkes Drift and lived on until 48yrs old as a goat herder

Was he camping in the next field and didn't hear the noise !

 

On a serious note - superb film that showed quantity over quality does sometimes go hand in hand.

 

ATB

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[BRYAN3]

I have set this to record to check out some mistakes that I had not noticed the previous 3-4 times I watched it.

It has come to my attention that some Fellows at the back appeared to be wielding Enfield rifles and some were visibly pretending to work the bolts,Enfield fashion even though Martini's were Falling block actions with the lever under the action.

Also it seems they were firing smokeless powder twenty years before it was invented.

 

If the film was to be remade today,we would probably be informed that a SEAL team actualy defended the station.

I wonder which American actors would be the main players.