Legal Highs

[Scully]

scully,,drinking alcohol is perfectly legal,,,smoking pot is not, Correct, no one has suggested otherwise. that's the difference weather you like it or not, Beiieve me, I don't care; it's the hypocrisy I can't abide.

 

drinking alcohol is legal,,,driving a car over the speed limit is not,Correct again, what point are you making?

 

I cant for the life of me understand why people keep throwing legal drinking in the mix, it is perfectly LEGAL to drink alcohol , taking drugs is TOTALLY ILLEGAL Can't argue with that, but the initial reason why alcohol got thrown into the mix in this thread is because some seem blinkered to the fact that legal highs can be just as destructive as illegal ones, but this suggestion doesn't sit well with some who are now trying to shut up those by suggesting they inform their FEO's of their illegal activities, which is frankly hilarious..

 

if any fac/sgc holder participates in illegal activities then sorry but IMO they should lose their licences ,,full stop, Fair enough, but i can't see anyone going to confession at the altar of the holy chief officer of police, can you?

 

if they where caught using drugs then they would certainly lose them More than likely, but not necessarily.

 

They throw alcohol in in a poor attempt to justify the use of mind changing and downright dangerously addictive drugs, they are illegal for a reason IE they destroy lives.

 

 

KW

That is pathetic to be honest. I truly believed you were better than that. Disappointing.

There is nothing 'poor' about an attempt to explain to those who are blinkered that alcohol, while being perfectly legal, is also a 'mind changing dangerously addictive drug', more than perfectly capable of destroying lives.

[Lloyd90]

I watched a young man, a lovely lad when clean destroy his life and his parents lives (good good people who tried everything to get him off drugs) I saw him steal off family friends anyone, in order to feed his habit, and I had the pleasure of taking his heart broken mother and brother to hospital only for them to find out he was dead when we got there, but like you say I know nowt about drugs! yet you who have apparently never touched so much as a spliff know all about them eh!

 

KW

How tragic from that particular family.

They have my sympathies.

 

I am currently studying social work and also am working over the summer in Mental Health. Using that as an example whilst saying people saying it shouldn't be compared to alcohol is very one sided however.

 

I have spent the last few weeks in wards with people who have destroyed their minds and now have no mental capacity through alcohol abuse. Some can't communicate or even move.

 

Any substance when abused can cause huge negative effects.

 

Some substances which are illegal do have some positives that can be uses where appropriate to help people. As is currently ongoing in many american states legalising cannabis.

 

I don't use drugs and I hardly drink. I like to have a clear and fresh mind. This doesn't mean I don't think that it could be used to help certain people if used responsibly.

 

As I am a FAC and SGC holder I abide by the law. Am I not allowed to believe some laws are wrong ? I also thinking the hunting act is wrong and will also gladly speak out against that. Do I need to declare that to my FEO AS WELL ?

[steve_b_wales]

In my line of work, I have had to deal with people who have totally ruined their (and their family) lives through drug taken and substance misuse. Without going into detail because of confidentiality, there is a problem with someone who I help support, because he is taking legal highs, which, when mixed with the anti psychotic medication he is currently taking, is causing major problems for him, and indirectly, his family.

[955i]

In my line of work, I have had to deal with people who have totally ruined their (and their family) lives through drug taken and substance misuse. Without going into detail because of confidentiality, there is a problem with someone who I help support, because he is taking legal highs, which, when mixed with the anti psychotic medication he is currently taking, is causing major problems for him, and indirectly, his family.

In contrast, my uncle, who had a promising career (used to make the Sunsilk and Lion Bar adverts) with two kids and a long term partner died on his hands and knees alone in a scrotty flat due to alcohol.

 

When my cousin was little he would go and visit his dad after school for my uncle to pass him a basket on rope through the window to go and get his shopping as he couldn't stand up.

 

When they cleared the flat out, behind the sofa was just a mass of cheap 2L cider and whisky bottles.

 

No-one visited him so the only conclusion that can be drawn is even he could not stand to see what he had become.

 

End result, distraught ex who loved him but couldn't tolerate his behaviour any more and 2 young children and the rest of the family devastated.

 

My father (while out drinking) was the passenger in a car driven by someone else who was drunk and involved in an accident killing three people.

 

Now tell me again how drink is harmless and drugs are bad!

 

EDIT: And guess what, against all expectations my cousin now drinks to excess regularly.

 

I cannot believe that people are so against so called 'illegal' drugs but condone alcohol.

 

Remember the only reason drugs are illegal is that the government can't figure out a way to control the growth of them and so can't make a tax formula that is enforceable.

 

Making cannabis illegal harks back to the era of prohibition and was originally a way to keep the black population in check as it was their drug of choice rather than alcohol.

Edited May 30, 2015 by 955i

[955i]

So by the same standing anybody who exceeds the speed limit, or drinks in a pub after hours, or as a few posters did after voting and disclosed how others voted should all have cert's revoked, all of those are illegal.

 

That is plainly nonsense and this sort of rhetoric is what further marginalises shooters rights too.

 

The holding of a firearm should be a risk based decision around suitability, smoking a joint makes nobody anymore of a risk than having a nip of whisky.

 

Again taking an overly simplistic and blunt approach benefits nobody.

 

Some drugs are very bad, both legal and illegal, some drug users are bad, some non drug users are bad, but we cannot and should not try to label everyone indiscriminately.

 

As for the medical use of cannabis I think it is wholly immoral to deny medical research and usage when it could improve so many lives. Why should people be forced to suffer unnecessarily because of small minded prejudice?

+1

[955i]

Here's the reason for my high horse, whacky backy brought this end result about

 

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KW, I feel for you, I really do.

 

I have lost good friends to heroin.

 

But to say that it was cannabis that killed them is just nonsense.

 

They died of the hard drug that they OD'd on.

 

Cannabis does NOT lead to hard drug taking, social circles and weakness of mid and body do.

 

To add to my list:

 

Matt Whittle

Molly Whittle

Spencer Wood

Chris Wood

Michael Wood

Toddy

Ben

Graham

Seb Jones

Smadge

 

The connection, they all hung around together and got into smack together. Its also notable that a brother and sister and three brothers died of the same thing.

 

Did they smoke grass? Yes, but many of us did. These decided to go the way of hard drugs for whatever reason.

 

The rest of us from that scene now hold good jobs, have families, nice cars and still smoke on occasion.

 

To say that anyone who smokes weed will go to hard drugs is foolishness.

Edited May 30, 2015 by 955i

[keg]

Two points, Some drugs when used even in small quantities can kill or people who are taking them for the first time may react to them in such a way that they need full time care ( this from a close friend who has 2 daughters who now have paranoid schitzophrenia ) This does not happen with alcohol. An addict is an addict be it drugs or drink.

 

In many cases you do not know what the stuff is mixed with.

 

 

People say that weed etc has the same effect as alcohol, would you get in car with someone over the limit?

 

My late mother-in-law was ill for many years with MS and joked wither her doctor about Cannabis. If it has it's medicinal uses, i have no problem exploring that.

 

Lastly:-

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/in-desperation-he-had-torn-at-his-soiled-nappy----the-baby-died-of-dehydration-1617460.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575528/Toddler-dies-heart-attack-drinking-METHADONE-baby-mug-police-believe-given-quiet.html

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kelly-emery-trial-fenton-hogan-5228812

 

Drugs don't just kill the users

Edited May 30, 2015 by keg

[keg]

KW, I feel for you, I really do.

 

I have lost good friends to heroin.

 

But to say that it was cannabis that killed them is just nonsense.

 

They died of the hard drug that they OD'd on.

 

Cannabis does NOT lead to hard drug taking, social circles and weakness of mid and body do.

 

To add to my list:

 

Matt Whittle

Molly Whittle

Spencer Wood

Chris Wood

Michael Wood

Toddy

Ben

Graham

Seb Jones

Smadge

 

The connection, they all hung around together and got into smack together. Its also notable that a brother and sister and three brothers died of the same thing.

 

Did they smoke grass? Yes, but many of us did. These decided to go the way of hard drugs for whatever reason.

 

The rest of us from that scene now hold good jobs, have families, nice cars and still smoke on occasion.

 

To say that anyone who smokes weed will go to hard drugs is foolishness.

It's a generalisation but sadly, some will try the had stuff so if there is no soft stuff or it's hard to get then hopefully they won't try.

[kdubya]

KW, I feel for you, I really do.

 

I have lost good friends to heroin.

 

But to say that it was cannabis that killed them is just nonsense.

 

They died of the hard drug that they OD'd on.

 

Cannabis does NOT lead to hard drug taking, social circles and weakness of mid and body do.

 

To add to my list:

 

Matt Whittle

Molly Whittle

Spencer Wood

Chris Wood

Michael Wood

Toddy

Ben

Graham

Seb Jones

Smadge

 

The connection, they all hung around together and got into smack together. Its also notable that a brother and sister and three brothers died of the same thing.

 

Did they smoke grass? Yes, but many of us did. These decided to go the way of hard drugs for whatever reason.

 

The rest of us from that scene now hold good jobs, have families, nice cars and still smoke on occasion.

 

To say that anyone who smokes weed will go to hard drugs is foolishness.

 

I believe it or not am not deliberately trying to argue or even have a dig, my style may be blunt it may be wrong but that's the way it is I say as I see, all I will say to put an end to this threads input from me is that I truly do believe that had he not first tried whacky backy, he would not have ventured further down the route to self destruction.

 

 

KW

[Harnser]

I just find it very sad that any body needs to take any drug just to feel good or as earlier mentioned for fun .i

I was involved for 30 years in trying to help drug addicts to get over their addictions . Some I helped ,some died .Don't think that pot is harmless ,it's not I have seen many people who were suffering from mental problems from the use of cannabis . Loss of self esteem ,most were paranoid and many suffered serious mental illness from smoking harmless pot.

We are all adults and do what we want as long as it is within the law . Because we are one of the most law abiding sections of society should we be engaging in the illegal act of taking controlled drugs ? Is there anybody on here who would introduce their children to drugs or is there any body who would turn a blind eye to their family taking drugs?

Harnser

[motty]

scully,,drinking alcohol is perfectly legal,,,smoking pot is not, that's the difference weather you like it or not,

 

drinking alcohol is legal,,,driving a car over the speed limit is not,

 

I cant for the life of me understand why people keep throwing legal drinking in the mix, it is perfectly LEGAL to drink alcohol , taking drugs is TOTALLY ILLEGAL

 

if any fac/sgc holder participates in illegal activities then sorry but IMO they should lose their licences ,,full stop,

 

if they where caught using drugs then they would certainly lose them

So, by that logic, anyone convicted of a speeding offence should lose their shotgun certificate. Correct?

[motty]

I just find it very sad that any body needs to take any drug just to feel good or as earlier mentioned for fun .i

I was involved for 30 years in trying to help drug addicts to get over their addictions . Some I helped ,some died .Don't think that pot is harmless ,it's not I have seen many people who were suffering from mental problems from the use of cannabis . Loss of self esteem ,most were paranoid and many suffered serious mental illness from smoking harmless pot.

We are all adults and do what we want as long as it is within the law . Because we are one of the most law abiding sections of society should we be engaging in the illegal act of taking controlled drugs ? Is there anybody on here who would introduce their children to drugs or is there any body who would turn a blind eye to their family taking drugs?

Harnser

Would you agree that alcohol can be as dangerous and cause as much misery as you say cannabis does?

[norfolk dumpling]

Alcohol has huge risks but those are known and not as extreme or unpredictable as legal highs. Yes alcohol associated with driving, depression etc can lead to death or injury but many of the legal highs have simply killed youngsters outright. Was it miaow miaow that was responsible for over 100 deaths? As a parent and someone who likes the odd bottle of beer/wine/scotch legal highs terrify me alcohol doesn't.

[keg]

I just find it very sad that any body needs to take any drug just to feel good or as earlier mentioned for fun .i

I was involved for 30 years in trying to help drug addicts to get over their addictions . Some I helped ,some died .Don't think that pot is harmless ,it's not I have seen many people who were suffering from mental problems from the use of cannabis . Loss of self esteem ,most were paranoid and many suffered serious mental illness from smoking harmless pot.

We are all adults and do what we want as long as it is within the law . Because we are one of the most law abiding sections of society should we be engaging in the illegal act of taking controlled drugs ? Is there anybody on here who would introduce their children to drugs or is there any body who would turn a blind eye to their family taking drugs?

Harnser

Interesting insight from someone who has been so close to it.

[Harnser]

Would you agree that alcohol can be as dangerous and cause as much misery as you say cannabis does?

Yes I would . Alcohol kills off brain cells ,rots the liver and is very addictive to many . A glass of wine a day is supposed to be good for you but two glasses a day is bad for you .

 

Harnser

[digger]

I know a fair few people who smoke weed, most of whom I would never employ. I know a few people a bit higher up who enjoy coke and the pattern is depressingly inevitable. Coke users seem to think they are in some Miami Vice like cool circle - one snort on the weekend becomes a fixative becomes a fixation. I've seen good buisiness destroyed in pursuit of Colombian marching powder and families with it.

I'm not saying it's inevitable but my nephew went from weed to coke to e's to heroin. He stole from his dad, his nan and took things from me til I gave him a hiding. He's now clean and has been for 4 years.

[grrclark]

I shall make this my last contribution to this thread as it has moved beyond any sort of reasoned discussion and become one of emotion and that is not particularly worthwhile.

 

For those that question whether some of us may have a debate with the FEO about the legal status of some drugs, speaking for myself I absolutely would, likewise I would happily debate it with the Chief Constable if he wanted to have the discussion, with my MP or even the PM. I don't believe that having reasoned debate is seditious or creating moral turpitude, in fact I believe that it is quite the opposite. Law deserves to be challenged otherwise we end up with bad law

 

It is appropriate to challenge convention, we used to be a society that believed the earth was flat and if said other wise you were declared a heretic and burned, we used to believe that medicine was the work of the devil and if you did otherwise you were burned at the stake, we used to believe that creationism was the basis of the earth and if you believed otherwise you were declared a heretic and burned, in the 1950s we believed that pop music was seditious and likely to lead to criminality.

 

There are many who have contributed to this thread standing behind messages of ignorance in respect to some recreational drugs who have been very vocal in their criticism of others for believing what the media tells them about political parties and criticising others for following the herd and not looking beyond headlines, but then they are doing exactly the same when considering some drugs.

 

As I have said before, without any question of doubt some drugs are incredibly harmful and should never be legalised, some are not. There are of course some individuals who are particularly susceptible to harmful effect of some drugs, but the same is true about peanuts and we don't make Snickers bars illegal; that same is true about tomatoes and we don't demonise them; the same is true about dairy products but we don't have a war on cows.

 

The above sentence may seem trivial, but the truth is more people have died due to taking dairy products than cannabis, likewise with peanuts and likewise with tomatoes. Nobody has ever died due to cannabis overdose, there are absolutely no recorded deaths anywhere due to toxicity of cannabis.

 

If we bundle everything together then we close the door on many things. There is a legal case in Canada just now where a 5 year old boy has particularly severe epilepsy that cannot be managed by developed drugs, his mother gave him a very small dose of cannabis every day and it resulted in a 90% improvement in his condition, it turned several episodes a day into one every few months. Fortunately Canada has a much more progressive approach and can look beyond hysteria, the mother has not been demonised and there is now a challenge to change the law to reflect the benefits that can be achieved.

 

If we pursue the all drugs are evil line then we close the door to that sort of research.

 

It cannot be a free for all of course and I don't think anybody has suggested that, but equally ignorance and hiding behind sentiment is simply destructive.

Edited May 30, 2015 by grrclark

[welsh1]

Yes I would . Alcohol kills off brain cells ,rots the liver and is very addictive to many . A glass of wine a day is supposed to be good for you but two glasses a day is bad for you .

 

Harnser

Thank goodness i only drink it by the bottle

[Danger-Mouse]

Danger-Mouse - I don't need to make myself look clever, as I am clearly a lot brighter than you. You made a rather stupid post - pointing that out isn't sniping.

 

Another post that speaks volumes about you. You know virtually nothing about me. You have no idea what my academic level is. You have no clue as to how bright I am other than what you have ascertained from reading a couple of posts I`ve made, on a subject we clearly disagree on.

 

Now, maybe you are brighter than me, I don`t really know how smart you are. It doesn`t really come across in your posts. What I can say with quite some confidence is that if you are brighter than me then you`re in a very small group. In fact I can guarantee that, because unlike you, I do know what my IQ is.

 

Now if you`ll excuse me I`m going to go back to replying to people who want a debate rather than whatever it is you want. I`ve no wish to derail this thread with personal bickering. So good evening to you.

[Catweazle]

Some hilarious points here.

 

I especially like the idea of keeping soft drugs illegal so as to keep criminals employed ! Perhaps we should ban bread too, think how many criminals it would take to supply all the cafes with sandwiches, they wouldn't have time to burgle houses.

 

There's a load of posts about Cannabis being a 'gateway' drug, but what is the 'gateway' to Cannabis ? Alcohol or Tobacco ? I'd wager most drug users tried one of those legal drugs first - I doubt many schoolkids had a crafty joint behind the bike sheds before they'd tried a normal cigarette, and I don't know anyone who smoked Cannabis before they'd tried alcohol.

 

Incidentally, 99.1% of KW's statistics are made up - probably ;-)

[Thunderbird]

I've read this thread with interest. I remember years ago I had a girlfriend who was a student nurse in Bristol who had to complete various placements in hospitals as part of her training. One placement was at a secure mental health unit and from what she told me it was populated mostly by young men who supposedly had (what they called at the time, and if I recall correctly) something called "ganja psychosis".

 

I got the distinct impression that these were people who had had an extremely negative reaction to cannabis. This was way before the days of 'skunk.'

 

It may not be any different to the people (and we probably all know someone) who basically can't handle their drink and who make a complete bell end of themselves after a mere sniff of the barmaids apron. But there could be more to it. I'm no scientist and I don't know the answer but this was 25 years ago and I can still remember it. It made quite an impression on her.

 

Is any drug 'harmless?'

[Scully]

As a parent and someone who likes the odd bottle of beer/wine/scotch legal highs terrify me alcohol doesn't.

I'm a parent also, of two teenagers, one of whom has just this year turned 18. I'm concerned but not really worried about the effects her alcohol intake has on her, she's got a good head on her shoulders but I'm aware of course that when all is said and done, she's still a teenager, and we've all been there. I am however, rather more concerned about the effects on her of the alcohol intake of others. Alcohol incidentally, is a legal high also.

I'm not against alcohol anymore than I am against drugs, but unless we face facts then we will never progress and opportunities for all will be lost.

I'm not saying alcohol should be illegal, anymore than I'm saying all other drugs should be legal, but I can only come to one conclusion when asked why some drugs are illegal but alcohol and tobacco aren't amongst them.

[Harnser]

I'm a parent also, of two teenagers, one of whom has just this year turned 18. I'm concerned but not really worried about the effects her alcohol intake has on her, she's got a good head on her shoulders but I'm aware of course that when all is said and done, she's still a teenager, and we've all been there. I am however, rather more concerned about the effects on her of the alcohol intake of others. Alcohol incidentally, is a legal high also.

I'm not against alcohol anymore than I am against drugs, but unless we face facts then we will never progress and opportunities for all will be lost.

I'm not saying alcohol should be illegal, anymore than I'm saying all other drugs should be legal, but I can only come to one conclusion when asked why some drugs are illegal but alcohol and tobacco aren't amongst them.

Probably because alcohol and tobacco were the first drugs that man invented and have Been around for hundreds of years and have become accepted in society as the norm . Who knows maybe all the class A drugs will become acceptable in the near future , I most certainly hope not .

Harnser

[Gordon R]

It doesn`t really come across in your posts. What I can say with quite some confidence is that if you are brighter than me then you`re in a very small group. In fact I can guarantee that, because unlike you, I do know what my IQ is.

 

Danger-Mouse - There you go again, guaranteeing things you know nothing about. I too know what my IQ is - if indeed IQ tests are accurate. By your logic, I am in a very small group, because I am undoubtedly a lot brighter than you. I don't make stupid claims I can't back up, whereas you do. For someone who thinks he is bright, you are sadly overestimating yourself.

 

It will be interesting to note whether you have finished with your snide remarks or whether you can't resist a last pop.

 

In respect of the actual debate, as someone has pointed out, illegal drugs are illegal. I too cannot see why alcohol keeps getting dragged into the debate. When alcohol is prohibited, those people will have a point, but clearly not before then.

 

[Catweazle]

Danger-Mouse - There you go again, guaranteeing things you know nothing about. I too know what my IQ is - if indeed IQ tests are accurate. By your logic, I am in a very small group, because I am undoubtedly a lot brighter than you. I don't make stupid claims I can't back up, whereas you do. For someone who thinks he is bright, you are sadly overestimating yourself.

 

Not bright enough to read his post properly though ;-)