Deputy mayor of Calais say's its down to us?

[Danger-Mouse]

 

what a load of tosh, we raped and pillaged our way round the world we should hang our heads in shame at some of the things we did, ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, looting the material wealth of nations, shocking

 

Why? We personally didn`t do those things.

 

One of the first lessons in studying history. Never impose today`s morals on yesterday`s society.

[welsh1]

 

what a load of tosh, we raped and pillaged our way round the world we should hang our heads in shame at some of the things we did, ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, looting the material wealth of nations, shocking

I have nothing to hang my head in shame for and i have been all over the world,protecting and defending other nations and people,helping them with large building projects and supplying clean drinking water for them.

 

You hang your head in shame if you want to, myself i walk tall head up high.

[Lloyd90]

 

what a load of tosh, we raped and pillaged our way round the world we should hang our heads in shame at some of the things we did, ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, looting the material wealth of nations, shocking

Should our ancestors of travelled around the world handing out hugs and handshakes ?

 

It was a primitive time and done by many nations , the Spanish in South America , the dutch and German ancestors who settled in Africa , so why do we have migrants passing through these places to come here ?

[deadeye18]

what a load of tosh, we raped and pillaged our way round the world we should hang our heads in shame at some of the things we did, ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, looting the material wealth of nations, shocking

 

what a load of rubbish ! We were at our best when we had an empire.nothing to be ashamed of at all!

[Scully]

 

what a load of tosh, we raped and pillaged our way round the world we should hang our heads in shame at some of the things we did, ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, looting the material wealth of nations, shocking

'We'? 'We' weren't even there! To hold totally unconnected people accountable for the actions of others really is a weird sense of logic. Very strange indeed.

[achosenman]

Yes we had an empire. But I seem to remember reading about the Romans doing something quite nasty once as well. Not to mention some odd tourists called Vikings.

 

How about we include those nasty little episodes in our Gardian reading, left leaning self flagellation navel gazing.

 

Bad thing happened all over the World, perpetrated by all the major powers in existence today. Yes I include the USA in that as well.

 

IMO it's time to move on and deal with the problem with a clear conscience.

 

Atb

[norfolk dumpling]

This is now a very different world - not a good one but one the major powers have created and could do more to right. I know many people are uneasy with our foreign aid spend but Cameron knows we need to do this (and probably more) and be better at it. We, and here I mean Europe, are being swamped by Africa's problems.

[Vince Green]

The problem is actually greater mobility and mass communication around the world. Although there might not be a lot of internet, phones etc in the countries that these people come from they do exist. They can now see and hear about a world that previously they would have no idea about. It raises expectations and quite naturally the young and ambitious want a slice.

 

Thats human nature, they are fulfilling a basic function of the human species to try and improve their life. The problem now is what to do with them because its only going to get worse over time. This is not going to go away

Edited June 26, 2015 by Vince Green

[Scully]

Well, as Gordon R often asks, if we do allow some in, when and where do we draw the line? How many is enough? 10,000? 100,000? 1000,000? After we've let 1000,000 in, will others stop coming?

It's a reasonable question, but no one as yet has given him an answer.

[malkiserow]

Er actually no its not payback time for the commonwealth, the commonwealth is a fairly modern term and those in it tend to apply and join, so I assume you refer to the Empire were we ruled either directly or indirectly and developed encouraged and created stability, wealth, safe communities and an infrastructure that worked for those countries, still with progression and the clamor for independence (listening are you wee eck) we dropped the empire bit, no more flag waving once a year in the school playground, and we let the associated countries go and develop their own states and culture, and gain full independence, from our shelter, yes things have moved on dramatically since then for a hell of a lot of them, BACKWARDS that is,so have we a lot to say sorry for then!

 

KW

 

Many in those countries (the ones who come here) would read your words as a British man sat in an ivory tower or perhaps, Westminster. The experience of many in the countries is not how you see it. One thing it has given some is English as a language and if they cannot get on with another European language, guess what, "I'll go to England where I can communicate".

[Rewulf]

 

I made no claims. You said with some certainty that 90% of these people are economic migrants. Pulling numbers out of thin air and then making claims based on these figments of your imagination is laughable.

 

I actually said 99% but hey, lets not let 9% get between us.

 

Anyone with non pedantic common sense would know that the true figure of who is a genuine asylum claimant and who is not, is a figure impossible to arrive at.

Im sure that you would just ask them and assume they are telling the truth and that would be your 'factual ' figure.

The rest of the world knows better.

You can say I plucked it out of the air if it makes you feel better, you have an opinion ,I have mine,mine is 99% of these people claim asylum seeking a more financially better future,not to escape death and persecution.

 

You say mines laughable.

Lets hear your figure ?

Or you just want to disagree with people just for the sake of it.

[spanj]

 

what a load of tosh, we raped and pillaged our way round the world we should hang our heads in shame at some of the things we did, ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, looting the material wealth of nations, shocking

presume you'll be off to one of these pillaged countries to atone then................

 

Why? We personally didn`t do those things.

 

One of the first lessons in studying history. Never impose today`s morals on yesterday`s society.

this

[Psyxologos]

 

I actually said 99% but hey, lets not let 9% get between us.

 

Anyone with non pedantic common sense would know that the true figure of who is a genuine asylum claimant and who is not, is a figure impossible to arrive at.

Im sure that you would just ask them and assume they are telling the truth and that would be your 'factual ' figure.

The rest of the world knows better.

You can say I plucked it out of the air if it makes you feel better, you have an opinion ,I have mine,mine is 99% of these people claim asylum seeking a more financially better future,not to escape death and persecution.

 

You say mines laughable.

Lets hear your figure ?

Or you just want to disagree with people just for the sake of it.

 

You said it yourself. So why make a claim that is so extreme? Unless you believe your ability to judge who is genuinely fleeing persecution and who is an economic migrant is objective and you base your answers on that, which I maintain, is laughable. I do not have a figure, and this is the reason I do not make any claims. I do believe though that most of these people are not economic migrants. Some are, but if I was living in Syria, Iraq or any other warzone, a better life in a richer country (which, by the way, played a massive part in flattening my hometown and plundering its resources) would be high in my agenda, but not as high as saving my life and the lives of those I love and care for.

[kdubya]

 

what a load of tosh, we raped and pillaged our way round the world we should hang our heads in shame at some of the things we did, ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, looting the material wealth of nations, shocking

I take it that as you are so ashamed of YOUR (not mine sunshine we did OK by our subjects)past you will clear off out, and enter some sort of servitude to repay your debt then, try Ryanair I prefare them to (anything but) Easyjet

 

KW

Edited June 26, 2015 by kdubya

[Gordon R]

Well, as Gordon R often asks, if we do allow some in, when and where do we draw the line? How many is enough? 10,000? 100,000? 1000,000? After we've let 1000,000 in, will others stop coming?

 

It's a reasonable question, but no one as yet has given him an answer.

 

Scully - I am glad someone else has noticed. Perhaps people are to busy hanging their head in shame.

 

I often wonder what happened to the children and wives of illegals. I accept some do come in, but most seem younger males. If things are so bad in their home country, why have they left their family to suffer?

[malkiserow]

 

Scully - I am glad someone else has noticed. Perhaps people are to busy hanging their head in shame.

 

I often wonder what happened to the children and wives of illegals. I accept some do come in, but most seem younger males. If things are so bad in their home country, why have they left their family to suffer?

 

I think many plan so send some money back so they can have a good life.

[Scully]

 

 

I often wonder what happened to the children and wives of illegals. I accept some do come in, but most seem younger males. If things are so bad in their home country, why have they left their family to suffer?

Exactly, one of these so called 'refugees' was interviewed on the news a few weeks ago and stated she had left her 8 year old daughter back in her native country and was ringing up to see how she was, on her iPhone! My daughter pointed out that one. Desperate times indeed.

It's not the fact she had a phone, but the fact she left her daughter behind. I'd be taking my kids with me if I went, or sending them ahead if things were that bad.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Scully

[Rewulf]

 

You said it yourself. So why make a claim that is so extreme? Extreme ,I dont think so,my opinion.Unless you believe your ability to judge who is genuinely fleeing persecution and who is an economic migrant is objective and you base your answers on that, Its usually the migrants saying it when interviewed ,that they are seeking money ,not safety.which I maintain, is laughable. I do not have a figure, So why refute mine? and this is the reason I do not make any claims.You claim 99% is laughable though. I do believe though that most of these people are not economic migrants. So above 50 % then ,we are making progress ! Some are, but if I was living in Syria, Iraq or any other warzone, a better life in a richer country Yes ! richer ,youre getting it now (which, by the way, played a massive part in flattening my hometown and plundering its resources) So,when did we bomb Nigeria, Ghana ,Sudan ect ,very weak argument there . would be high in my agenda, but not as high as saving my life and the lives of those I love and care for. They leave those behind until they get citizenship ,then send for them using the ECHR right to family life argument,thats how much their lives are in danger.

 

You seem like a reasonably intelligent bloke, use your eyes,listen to what they say,look at the countries that they originate from.

Are they war zones,do they have oppressive regimes?

If they are coming from Syria.Iraq,Afghanistan ,how have they ended up in Libya with enough money to pay traffickers to put them on a boat?

Surely they could have got to Greece,claimed asylum then become EU citizens ,from there they can go where they like in the EU.

Why are they sat at the side of the road at Calais waiting to climb under a lorry,having trekked through 10 safe EU countries?

Why are heavily pregnant women making the perilous med crossing ? Because they know their baby will be born an EU citizen,giving the whole family access to EU citizenship.

Most of the people coming through Libya are from Africa and are economic migrants,if you would like to believe that most are seeking refuge from death and persecution thats up to you.

This whole thing is a racket,a business to illegally move people from poor countries to richer ones,I feel sorry for the genuine asylum seekers because they do exist,but believe it or not my 99% figure doesnt seem like a bad estimate to me.

 

And you can laugh all you like,the jokes on the both of us.

[955i]

Gonna take the flak but....

 

Turn them round and send them back.

 

This is not from a race point of view but from the point that if they are not under threat they shouldn't be here anyway and the fact that those that are from a country where they are under threat, they never seem to go back there once the threat is gone, they would rather reap the honey from here!!

 

Surely they should be desperate to get back and re-build the country they 'love'!!

[longspoon]

Gonna take the flak but....

 

Turn them round and send them back.

 

This is not from a race point of view but from the point that if they are not under threat they shouldn't be here anyway and the fact that those that are from a country where they are under threat, they never seem to go back there once the threat is gone, they would rather reap the honey from here!!

 

Surely they should be desperate to get back and re-build the country they 'love'!!

At last......common sense....

[Vince Green]

Gonna take the flak but....

 

Turn them round and send them back.

 

This is not from a race point of view but from the point that if they are not under threat they shouldn't be here anyway and the fact that those that are from a country where they are under threat, they never seem to go back there once the threat is gone, they would rather reap the honey from here!!

 

Surely they should be desperate to get back and re-build the country they 'love'!!

Agreed, They should be turned back purely on the basis that they have not got the right paperwork / permission to enter.

 

In the long term that is the only method that is going to work. If its done consistantly it willl deter others from coming. Same as all those people at Calais, No paperwork so deport them, Israel has a big problem with illegal immigration and they just ship them out. They have agreements with a number of safe African countries that will take them if they don't want to go back to their home country.

[Rewulf]

Gonna take the flak but....

 

Turn them round and send them back.

 

This is not from a race point of view but from the point that if they are not under threat they shouldn't be here anyway and the fact that those that are from a country where they are under threat, they never seem to go back there once the threat is gone, they would rather reap the honey from here!!

 

Surely they should be desperate to get back and re-build the country they 'love'!!

 

Unfortunately the broken,unfit for purpose asylum system doesnt work like that.

If you claim asylum when you first enter the 'safe country' it must be granted by international law,at least until it can be found to be a genuine claim.

Problem is ,this is often impossible as paper work is missing or identity cannot be verified.

A favourite trick in recent years ,particularly from African countries,is to claim homosexuality.

Whilst not always against the law in their parent country,it is often vilified and subject to persecution.

Its also very difficult to prove,hence a good reason to make an asylum claim successful.

The fact that most of them then send for their wives and children a year down the line or 'find ' that they have turned straight is something the law cannot cope with.

You cant really reverse citizenship,not in this country anyway.

 

As Vince mentioned Israel just ships them out,not technically legal ,but that doesnt normally bother them anyway,The US does it too,but they are both in difficult positions when it comes to migrants.

Ive got nothing against people from less well off countries trying to better themselves,Id do it myself.

Plus its got nothing to do with race or religion.

But it is simple economics,Europe and this country in particular has its own issues that are a boil waiting to burst.

Why on earth ,given recent events and the fact we are being told on a daily basis about the 'security issues' regarding isis/al quaeda/boko haram would you want to accept and re home people from those very regions.

At least some of them will be sympathisers.

Its like protecting the flock from wolves by feeding them and letting them sleep in your barn

[iain]

Aye....but the French have a tradition of not being able to keep foreign invaders from getting as far as the channel ports

True. Remember the last time the French beat us. 1066. After that we showed them the error of their ways, battle of Agincourt, The Nile, trafalger, Waterloo, Mers El Kébir

They hate us with a passion. So this is their way to get their own back.

[geordieh]

Where to? we cant send people back to a cruel and murderous existence, created thanks to our ever so moral obligation to do away with leaders who ran countries the way those countries NEEDED ruling, harsh perhaps but definitely true! did we make life better for the "oppressed" I would say no if anything a damn sight worse, and even more so now that due to OUR like it or not total de- stabilisation of north Africa and most of the middle east,.

 

And of course the aim of coming through a safe country to get to us is not helped in the least by our mad diverse and multicultural experiment and the little fact we also sent out the message that the yellow brick road really does end on our shore's, the term reap what you sow has never been more apt.

 

 

KW

Of course we can it is not our problem

[pimpkiller]

I dont see anything wrong with rounding them up and dumping them back into france, ill bet if we start doing that then each country will follow suit and problem solved

 

As for the empire we dont have one anymore we gave that up along with slavery so there's no axe to grind or guilt to feel its irelevant in this day and age.