kennett Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 A friend of mine has just bought an old Browning b27, nice gun but someone's told him they are rubbish because they were made in Belgium. I tried telling him I thought most of Brownings shotguns were, but I don't really know why ? Any info on this and the b27s in general would be appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I dont know the full history but as far as I know only the best/highest grade Brownings were made in Belgium while all the mainstream models are made in Japan at the Miroku factory alongside the Miroku branded guns. Browning was only ever a firearm designer with actual production being outsourced to existing firearms manufacturers. Edited February 21, 2016 by Iggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 John Moses Browning went to work with FN in Herstal because he was treated very badly by Winchester in the USA. As a result they got to use a lot of designs, the iconic B25 is just probably the best known. Japanese "Brownings" were outsouces to Miroku with minor changes to make them more mass production friendly but many of th eoriginal princples were still stuck too. The biggest change is in the forend. Hope this helps, David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Nothing wrong with FN (fabrique National) They made the FN SLR that was our choice during the Falkland island war. Browning have always been a made out gun, your mate only knows a tiny bit of the story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 As above Browning had problems with Winchester in America. The production in Belgium was the best grade. Cost got high and the work was farmed out to Jap factories but the better handmade models continued to be made by FN in Belgium. If your mates gun has been looked after and not neglected and abused it is a really nice gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Guessing, but Belgium did build a lot of cheap grade guns (s/s and hammer guns) most of which were not of good quality - hence Belgian guns developed a 'reputation'. However - they have also built high grade guns and it has always been my understanding that Belgian built Browings were well made and highly respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 There are two b27s on guntrader. One £550 and the other is £795. There are no pictures but one states, in good condition. If you're mate recons that it is a bit of junk, you'd better get up there quick before the other bloke does and offer him a tenner for it so that he can go and get a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Thanks for that everybody. Looks like he has a bargain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Miroku of Japan were ripping off the design so Browning made a deal with them to produce guns for them. There was a good documentary on Browning. Funny thing is Winchester is now part of the same group and are made in Belguim by FN Herstal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 The "Browning " story is an interesting read both the man and the company and then the town...... The country of origin is not a definitive marker of quality compared to the B25 the B27 isn't as good, it was an attempt to compete with mass produced CNC guns from Japan (failed) and browning went on to licence the miroku factory to produce the Citori range for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old06 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Very good read and the info given is spot on funny about Winchester I have several browning designed gun's and 2 browning guns first one is a Belgium made its the BAR in 7 mm Rem Mag fit and finish are top notch shoots like a dream but all that steel its heavy the next is a BBR its in 7mm 08 made in Japan now its a shooter but the finish would scratch easily would be my only major complaint over the years I have had friends and handled them in gun shops and I think there outstanding value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 The push to Belgium was more accidental than deliberate. Winchester had sort of messed around with Browning for a while...using a LOT or his designs, but also buying up quite a few to not use (purely to prevent a competitor getting access to them) The BIG change was Browning's Auto 5....the first semi auto shotgun. ... He took it to Remington to show the company president & try to interest them in making it. Browning was sitting in the outer office, ready to see him, but the Remington president suffered a fatal heart attack...so no meeting. Browning got on a boat to Liege & FN took on the Auto 5 design. Hence FN-Bsrowning was born. The twist is that the Auto 5 WAS also made by Remington too, but under license, as the Model 11... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 This is an interesting documentary on Browning. I know lots of people will have already seen it, but for those that haven`t . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpXynZMqSU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) FN is now part of the Herstal Group which not only owns the Winchester brand (except for Winchester ammo which is owned by Olin Corp.) but also owns Browning Arms Co. Some of the less costly Belgian Brownings are assembled by hand from Miroku supplied parts, others are fully hand made. One of the best things about them is the barrels which are not sourced from Miroku but are hand built and (until fairly recently) much lighter than on the X25 family of japanese built guns. Edited February 22, 2016 by Westward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thanks for all the info everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 The B27 was made in Japan. B25 are the finest gun in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 The B27 was made in Japan. B25 are the finest gun in my opinion No it wasn't. It was made in Liege Belgium from 1984 and is a minor upgrade on the B26. Apart from the Cynergy which is also made by Miroku, all the japanese Brownings are Citori variants and other than the plain Citori itself they are all designated X25 from 325 through 725. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 The B26 was FN's attempt to make an cheaper O/U that could be marketed as a FN or Browning sometimes referred to as the Liege . They were OK but were not as successful as they should have been . There are no spares and there are a couple of springs that give problems that are hard to reproduce . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Oddly they make Winchester OU in liege and autos in Portugal I think (assembly in Portugal from parts made in Italy?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I've heard that the 725 is not a true X25 but a 'hybrid' .. anyone care to comment on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I've heard that the 725 is not a true X25 but a 'hybrid' .. anyone care to comment on that? Well it's very different to the B25, mechanical triggers being the big difference compared to the X25 series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I've heard that the 725 is not a true X25 but a 'hybrid' .. anyone care to comment on that? The triggers are a hybrid of inertia & mechanical. They still have an inertia block and associated switchover parts but also have a bulge on the mainspring to trip the trigger selector in case there isn't enough recoil. Supposedly, true mechanical triggers are more prone to doubling or fan firing than inertia ones so this is an attempt to get the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Oddly they make Winchester OU in liege and autos in Portugal I think (assembly in Portugal from parts made in Italy?) Back when I worked for them we had the High Power 9mm pistols made in Portugal. Some others were made in Portugal/assembled in Belgium. Same idea with the 125 shotguns. Parts made in Japan/assembled in Belgium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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