GP views on firearms licensing

[Wb123]

not happy because they don't think they can make judgments unless they can charge a fee.

Would you roll over and accept unpaid work because the politicians say you will?

[Whitebridges]

This really p****s me off. Why? Well, aside from the fact this is obviously an attempt to stop all shooting by the anti-Gun lobby, at no time has anyone pointed out what a rediculous waste of time and effort this is. We are the safest sport or activity in this country - fact as I used to do the numbers on a huge personal accident account for the largest insurer in the country! You can count, on one hand, the number of deaths from legally held guns annually yet we are subject to this farce every 5 years. But on our roads motoring accidents account for nearly 2,000 deaths annually plus numerous life changing injuries - you get a licence when you pass your test and 50 years later (or perhaps before if you just happen to kill or maim a few!!) you get asked to prove you are fit to drive. Can we not get real about this and ask our Goverment to introduce 10 or 25 years licences and tell the BMA and the Home Office to grow up.

 

ND nice to read some strong opinions on this.

 

The trouble is left wing anti shooting Docs and Docs who are not prepared to run the risk of saying ......"Pete's a good boy" only to find out that Pete subsequently decides to shoot his MIL.

 

Read the article in today's Shooting Times for a heads up.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Whitebridges

[CharlieT]

Would you roll over and accept unpaid work because the politicians say you will?

 

Perhaps if the BMA had done their homework properly and had been a little more professional in their negotiations with the Home Office this rather silly fiasco would never have happened.

 

As it now stands, it seems to me that, like the junior doctors, it all hinges on money and everything else is a smokescreen.

 

Although, having said that, my GP is not charging and has no intention of doing so for what he described as a simple tick box exercise. Stating "if I can't do that for the odd patient I'm not much suited to being a rural GP"

[Wb123]

 

Perhaps if the BMA had done their homework properly and had been a little more professional in their negotiations with the Home Office this rather silly fiasco would never have happened.

 

As it now stands, it seems to me that, like the junior doctors, it all hinges on money and everything else is a smokescreen.

 

Although, having said that, my GP is not charging and has no intention of doing so for what he described as a simple tick box exercise. Stating "if I can't do that for the odd patient I'm not much suited to being a rural GP"

Throw enough money at it and the problem can be made to go away (as with more or less every problem). As with the whole health service though a huge amount is expected to be delivered on good will which has pretty much run dry.

 

I do resent how so many people deny the fact that money is ultimately at the centre of the matter. The junior doctors contract renegotiation is on the back of an effective real terms 50% pay cut over the last 10 years, whilst the GP contract has been eroded by a similar amount in real terms whilst cutting back profoundly on what merits payment and what does not (our police letters for instance). Funnily enough good will is running dry in the profession.

 

I'll stand with you on the BMA matter, they did (and usually do) make a complete pigs ear of negotiating this one. The stance should have been a straightforward happy to support any appropriately funded plan.

[TommyB]

Good will may be running dry in the profession but the gp contract and pay levels when it first came in destroyed public trust in or sympathy for gps. You reap what you sow.

Edited November 23, 2016 by TommyB

[scutt]

Would you roll over and accept unpaid work because the politicians say you will?

hold on the gov pay the gps they are not private doctors I pay the gov thru taxation and certificate fee

[bornfree]

I renewed in July my GP wanted £68 I conveniently forgot to pay the bill.

[Wb123]

hold on the gov pay the gps they are not private doctors I pay the gov thru taxation and certificate fee

You pay via taxation for the nhs who contract out 'primary health care' to a selection of private providers. A well defined list of things will then be paid for via a nebulous target based contract. Equally a great deal of things are excluded from this provision.

 

Rather like the government contracting a tarmacer to do the road through the village but not your unadopted culdesac or drive.

 

Some (most) gps take part as private contractors in the nhs provision of general practice where they are paid for what they deliver, but only from the prearranged list of things which will be covered, the road through the village but not your drive. Some (fewer) gps work privately outside the nhs provision, where you or your insurer pay for everything.

[scutt]

Contracted via NHS.is still my point of view they must have agreed to no fee as part of the contract they are currently signed up too as you say prearranged.I also can't see this issue being an overburden to GPs practice I do think its these large groups of practices created, making them more of a business than a service that is driven this issue of payments.Its the same with vets they are joining together and creating a cartel culture .mind you this is only MY point of view as an old sceptic.

Edited November 24, 2016 by scutt

[teddy boy]

it is my understanding that if the police approach a G.P. and get no response. after 21days it is considered there are no issues to be concerned about and the licence is granted.

[lister22]

I am not totally clear as to the GPs' position.

 

They seem to be in a position to judge suitability, if they can charge a fee.

 

In the absence of a fee, they seem to be unqualified to pass judgement.

its all about the money

[kody]

it is my understanding that if the police approach a G.P. and get no response. after 21days it is considered there are no issues to be concerned about and the licence is granted.

Correct I'm sure

[Highlandladdie]

Correct I'm sure

to be clear this is not the case in Scotland. No reply= no licence.

[Highlandladdie]

I asked my GP if there was a fee attached. the GP said that it was not policy under the guidance issued to take a fee. GP didn't charge me anything. They are not all bad.

 

The ones that are seem to be profiteering?

[wascal]

.Its the same with vets they are joining together and creating a cartel culture .

 

+1

 

our old vets phone answered-

 

press 1 for accounts

press 2 for routine etc etc

 

shows their priorities !!

[old man]

Not read this, so just a personal view, "greedy ****"

 

A few I know also seem to be pushing the NHS towards extinction, presumably as more wonga in the private sector?

[Wb123]

Contracted via NHS.is still my point of view they must have agreed to no fee as part of the contract they are currently signed up too as you say prearranged.I also can't see this issue being an overburden to GPs practice I do think its these large groups of practices created, making them more of a business than a service that is driven this issue of payments.Its the same with vets they are joining together and creating a cartel culture .mind you this is only MY point of view as an old sceptic.

Its not quite that simple. The main contract covers the paid work, like hgv or diving medicals, signing passport photos etc this is explicitly outside the paid work and entirely optional.

 

It would have been very simple to include it in the paid work, that it wasnt suggests a deliberate attempt to avoid it being work funded via taxation, which given it is a hobby we choose is not inconsistent with the stance on many other areas.

[Gordon R]

I believe GPs incomes are partially based on the number of patients who are registered with them - the Global Sum and Minimum Practice Income Guarantee (MPIG).

 

As I see it, they are quite happy for you to be registered, without ever actually consulting them.

 

A healthy patient is great for business and takes up no time.

 

However, when they are asked to lift a finger to do something ,which they consider outside their contract, they start whinging.

[andrewluke]

I believe GPs incomes are partially based on the number of patients who are registered with them - the Global Sum and Minimum Practice Income Guarantee (MPIG).

 

As I see it, they are quite happy for you to be registered, without ever actually consulting them.

 

A healthy patient is great for business and takes up no time.

 

However, when they are asked to lift a finger to do something ,which they consider outside their contract, they start whinging.

if i want an appointment with my doctor i would have to wait 6-8 weeks as they are so busy yet when i'm at the desk in the surgery the receptionists seem to be handing out plenty of forms to be filled in by a never ending queue of new patients(mainly Polish)

[fortune]

I have just read through this and I don't know if most doctors are like this but my doctors is a group practice.there are about eight full doctors, a few part timers, several sisters and different things like blood, physiology,diabetes clinics and other clinical stuff. now when I go to see a doctor It could be any of the doctors. The one that I am booked to be under hasn't seen me for close on thirty years. Apart from my clinical details on the practice system he wouldn't even put a face to my name. If he were asked about me he wouldn't have a clue about me other than the bare system details of any medicine that I might be on. Again this doctors certificate thing is a creeping shadow that is becoming more common, and what are the orgs doing about it? David of basc fame hasn't been on here to state, >> this is what we are doing this week to combat this for the good of our members and all shooters". All they might do is, if and when you have a problem, they might advise you or they might contact the department, but they have no more influence than the individual. Only last weekend I was on a friend's shoot and there was a woman shooter there that said that recently she had renewed and that she had been told that she had to pay for a doctors report and she had complied because she thought that she had to. And she is a basc Member. She didn't even think about contacting them about it. Ok they can't know what problems she has had without being asked to intervene but they should be a lot more pro active in getting to this situation in the first place.

[Scully]

My home town has grown enormously since I were a lad, buts less than 29 years ago that I saw one or two GP's whom I'd known since my schooldays.

I don't know any of my GP's at the new clinic and very rarely see the same one twice as there are so many locums popping in and out.

It's not a complaint, merely an observation on the way things are nowadays.

As none of my GP's now know me personally, they have nothing more than my medical history record on which to base any judgement regarding my general well being, social habits or otherwise.

[CharlieT]

 

As none of my GP's now know me personally, they have nothing more than my medical history record on which to base any judgement regarding my general well being, social habits or otherwise.

 

And it is exactly that information they are required to use to complete the tick box exercise. They are not, as some suggest, being asked to be psychiatrists or fortune tellers.

 

It appears to me, as a lowly sheep herder, that this simple exercise has escalated into yet another means of increasing surgery revenue with no control in place as to what, if any at all, the charge should be.

 

I just find it extraordinary that some practices deem the work so trivial that it doesn't warrant a charge, yet others consider the work so onerous that they feel the need to charge a couple of hundred quid.

[Scully]

 

And it is exactly that information they are required to use to complete the tick box exercise. They are not, as some suggest, being asked to be psychiatrists or fortune tellers.

 

.

Yes, exactly CT, as it was meant to be and should be. I doubt any GP would or should be allowed to make judgements nor be held responsible for the actions of an applicant, but merely report an applicants behaviour as relevant to them owning firearms.

I can't help thinking that if Durham police had acted upon the information available to them we may not now be having this massive .... covering passing the buck exercise.

[mossy835]

just been to the doctors for a hgv medical.and he asked me when my shotgun licence was up for renewal.i said july 17 he said we have had a lot of trouble about this, and said the police and doctors above are having talks. he said next year it should all be sorted out.he told me you will get your licence ok.