viking Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Is it ok to lend someone a shotgun who has lost there licence recently. There is a lad at the clay shoot who lost his license a few months ago so he transferred his gun to his mates certificate and his mate brings said gun for him to use, I just wondered if that was allowed or not. I'm guessing it must be. As at least he is not the actually owner anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Don't take this as certain but I think that is a bit of a grey area: My understanding is that a prohibited person may not possess one, so it possibly comes down to why he lost his ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Don't take this as certain but I think that is a bit of a grey area: My understanding is that a prohibited person may not possess one, so it possibly comes down to why he lost his ticket. This ^^ I know someone who lost their license because of having their gun stolen. There was no problem with them using a gun though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking Posted January 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 I heard he was carrying on with the transport police. Threw a couple of them about when they tried to arrest him. Only had his license 3 week apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 As Dave G said it depends on why he lost his license which would determine if he was to be prohibited or not, BUT I would of thought tackling police officers would put you automatically on a prohibited list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arm3000gt Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 I'm not a legal expert but someone who is willing to 'throw about' some transport police. Is probably not the sort of person who should have access to a shotgun. I'm sure there is more to the story etc but based on the details given I wouldn't feel comfortable loaning a gun to said person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) I've recently research into this. It is perfectly legal for him to use a shotgun, under the same conditions as a non certificate holder, after his certificate has been revoked. As long as the offence has not had a custodial sentence then he is not a prohibited person. However - many shooting grounds may only allow non certificate holders to shoot with an instructor. Edited January 3, 2017 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 I've recently research into this. It is perfectly legal for him to use a shotgun, under the same conditions as a non certificate holder, after his certificate has been revoked. As long as the offence has not had a custodial sentence then he is not a prohibited person. However - many shooting grounds may only allow non certificate holders to shoot with an instructor. ^^^ this Me and Mark both looked into this as we thought it would be a no no, but BASC and a request to the police both revealed the same answer, Strange but true..... They revoke your licence but don't consider you an unfit person, go figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Is it legal to loan the shotgun to this person? Yes - unless he is prohibited. Would I loan him a shotgun? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Is it legal to loan the shotgun to this person? Yes - unless he is prohibited. Would I loan him a shotgun? No. That's a different question, in this case I would probably say no also but that decision isn't down to us Edited to add *Also a section 11c exemption states, and I quote "nor is it to provide opportunity for regular shooting persons who do not possess shotgun certificates" So if it was my ground and he turned up on a regular basis then I would be telling him no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking Posted January 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 i dont know the bloke or the full circumstances, but i think he may of being spoken to by the police whilst getting on the train, drunk or not i dont know, and for whatever reason took displeasure to being spoken to or maybe arrested and shoved a couple of them, i dont think he was charged with anything, i get that he is not now allowed a SGC which is fair enough, but as for being lent one at a shooting ground then at least he is not in full possession of one,as in having one at home.i just wondered if he or his mate was out of order doing what they were doing, ie, lending him a gun, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Please see my edit as it is important about the section 11C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 He wouldn't be touching mine put it that way, and I would also be looking for another Domino's partner. Not a good idea to mix with these type of people in my mind, even by association you can be tarred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 The section 11c part is vital, met a guy who always had the lesson immediately before mine and so we always had a quick chat, he was always looking at guns in the shop and talking about when he was going to get his licence, one day he wasn't there and the instructor said he had been recognised by a copper who shoots with us and is a known armed robber that has served numerous stretches inside! Luckily this ground only allows non holders to shoot during a lesson but people do abuse the 11c to avoid having to apply for a ticket they know will be refused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 A lot of the clay shoots round here say you have to have a SGC to shoot, even if you borrow a club gun as a beginner under instruction. It never used to be like that, what has changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 A lot of the clay shoots round here say you have to have a SGC to shoot, even if you borrow a club gun as a beginner under instruction. It never used to be like that, what has changed? Accountability, Our club holds a section 11C and we have non certificate holders shooting, but they are supervised at all times The important bit as I said above is where roughly it says "Not to be used to allow non cert holders on a regular basis" Now everyone who uses our club has to sign in, we have to keep these records for 12 months in case they have to be inspected, So if they were and it turns out Fred Bloggs has been every week as a non cert holder then we are in bother as its against the terms of the section 11C and it could be revoked. Clubs without section 11C manage it there own way I suppose In the circumstance listed above with the armed robber springs to mind.......accountability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 A lot of the clay shoots round here say you have to have a SGC to shoot, even if you borrow a club gun as a beginner under instruction. It never used to be like that, what has changed? Maybe they don't have 11(6) exemptions ? I know a few places changed the rules in relation to new guidance a couple of years ago now insisting that any none sac had to book a lesson at £50+ rather than being able to just practise, I don't know how often grounds get checked for 11(6) exemptions but it does seem odd that all these rules have sprung up but I have never afair been asked to show my SGC at any ground in order to shoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Accountability, Our club holds a section 11C and we have non certificate holders shooting, but they are supervised at all times The important bit as I said above is where roughly it says "Not to be used to allow non cert holders on a regular basis" Now everyone who uses our club has to sign in, we have to keep these records for 12 months in case they have to be inspected, So if they were and it turns out Fred Bloggs has been every week as a non cert holder then we are in bother as its against the terms of the section 11C and it could be revoked. Clubs without section 11C manage it there own way I suppose In the circumstance listed above with the armed robber springs to mind.......accountability But surely mr armed robber would be a prohibited person? If he was not a prohibited then why should he not shoot it is after all in the terms of the law. What's their definition of regular? Every week once a month, twice? What spwould stop him shooting several times a month just turning up at different grounds (just like the planning exception that allows shoots to operate every week but moving to a different field and alternating so neither field requires planning? Page 2 is interesting https://www.cpsa.co.uk/userfiles/file/ACPOP.pdf Edited January 4, 2017 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 But surely mr armed robber would be a prohibited person? If he was not a prohibited then why should he not shoot it is after all in the terms of the law. What's their definition of regular? Every week once a month, twice? What spwould stop him shooting several times a month just turning up at different grounds (just like the planning exception that allows shoots to operate every week but moving to a different field and alternating so neither field requires planning? Page 2 is interesting https://www.cpsa.co.uk/userfiles/file/ACPOP.pdf The how often is a grey area, We have now told someone that once had a licence, lost it, got it back then a few years later handed it back in that he isn't welcome anymore, He is unstable and by his own admission would never be granted another one. It's down to the individual clubs on how it's managed which to be honest is a bit of a cop out by the authorities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 But surely mr armed robber would be a prohibited person? If he was not a prohibited then why should he not shoot it is after all in the terms of the law. What's their definition of regular? Every week once a month, twice? What spwould stop him shooting several times a month just turning up at different grounds (just like the planning exception that allows shoots to operate every week but moving to a different field and alternating so neither field requires planning? Page 2 is interesting https://www.cpsa.co.uk/userfiles/file/ACPOP.pdf Trouble is the depth or research into whether or not you're a prohibited person involves someone saying "are you a prohibited person?" and if they say no there's nothing the grounds can do - how could you even check without access to the PNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gozzy Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Would not put my licence and reputation on the line for someone of that caliber , must be a reason of concern for police to revoke his licence , why put your own in jeopardy for his actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 When I was involved with running a ground, newcomers would be asked for a Certificate. If they did not possess a Certificate but wanted to shoot with the club gun AND BUY AMMUNITION, they would be asked to enter details into a book, kept for that purpose, some form of ID was also required. That is as far as you can go at that time, BUT it may just be your defence, if it was later proved that a prohibited person had access to both gun and ammo there. This only applies to Grounds in possession of an 11 (6) exemption. It would appear that in this case the Offender has NOT yet been convicted of any offence, but has had his Certificate Revoked/ Suspended, pending any conviction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 I know of one commercial ground (now closed) that did a lot of stag and hen shooting as well as open practise that all new (unknown to management) persons had to fill in an "insurance form" it included a declaration that they were "not a prohibited person" now how far you can trust a a prohibited person who does want to shoot not to just scribble in the box and crack on I don't know...... but they obvisouly thought it covered them, turn up with a gun tho and no asks anything more than "have you been here before"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) You can NOT trust a prohibited person, or anyone else for that matter, BUT you can only do so much to investigate a persons background on a Sunday morning at a Shooting Ground that is more often than not, out in the sticks. They have not included Shooting Grounds among those who can access the PNC..................................YET ! I know of a least six people who are now shooting every week, who fired their first shots at a Stag Do. Edited January 4, 2017 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'm not a legal expert but someone who is willing to 'throw about' some transport police. Is probably not the sort of person who should have access to a shotgun. I'm sure there is more to the story etc but based on the details given I wouldn't feel comfortable loaning a gun to said person. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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