Another biased BBC article

[CaptainBeaky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38365729

 

Discuss.

 

(Lights blue touchpaper, retreats to safe distance)

[Dave-G]

Is it biased though - or just reporting news that luvvies will lap up?

[bluesj]

Looks like they use the same sort of system as we do, wheres the news

But does the last sentence tell any body any thing?

Edited January 7, 2017 by bluesj

[nagantino]

I wonder why they allow anyone to own a gun of any kind. Why not ban them all, that would be easy.......except your rights as a law abiding citizen would be horribly compromised. Who wants to live in that society? And yes the last sentences. The criminals still use them no matter what..........Just not Joesph Sixpack on a Saturday morning. He can't be trusted. Stupid article.

[Stonepark]

Japan may have 'almost' eliminated gun crime, but it has not eliminated murders.

 

last figures, I have seen Uk and Japan homicide rates are equivalent per capita.

 

Arcticle relies on old 2013 figures...... and bait and switch of 'gun murders' 'gun deaths' (including suicide) and homicide rates

Edited January 7, 2017 by Stonepark

[HDAV]

It's quite funny really they compare Japan gun ownership to the US then say how wonderful it is.... oh by the way Iceland has less strict controls but similar levels of gun crime amongst much higher ownership.....

 

The stats of ownership = crime do not hold true ...........

 

"This helps explain why mass shootings in Japan are extremely rare. When mass killings occur, the killer most often wields a knife."

 

 

"According to Iain Overton, the "almost taboo level of rejection" of guns in Japan means that the country is "edging towards a perfect place" - though he points out that Iceland also achieves a very low rate of gun crime, despite a much higher level of gun ownership."

 

No one tell him about the miroku factory for heavens sake!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Wow!

 

When will the Japs ban knives then?

[Paul1440]

Made me laugh too when you consider where Brownkng and Miroku guns are made.

 

There is something really wrong with the BBC they aleays manage to put a predudice in any reportong they do.

I just think they are lazy.

[Gordon R]

TIGHTCHOKE - precisely - the same article mentions the mass killings being perpetrated by knife.

 

Pathetic, biased reporting, unworthy of the BBC.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Gordon R

[CaptainBeaky]

I note that the author skips over the matter of Iceland very briefly - high up on the per capita ownership table, but down near the bottom of the crime stats.

 

The trouble appears to be that the story takes the two extreme ends of the ownership distribution curve, and presents them as a binary choice, rather than two ends of a continuum, and invites the conclusion that ownership levels are the only determinant, which is disingenuous, to say the least.

 

It also presents the long-standing removal of firearms from the Japanese population as being a crime-reduction measure, whereas it was merely a continuation of the previous laws forbidding peasants from owning weapons of any description.

 

A weapon that would allow an illiterate farmer to defeat a highly trained bushi (from a much higher social stratum) was definitely never going to be allowed out into the wild in 17th century Japan.

 

This, then, explains the historically low ownership of firearms in Japan. A similarly analytical glance at the history of the USA gives a parallel explanation for their high ownership.

 

Neither, on their own, explains the disparity in gun crime rates. Looking at the middle distributions of both ownership and crime rate tables, where the statistically significant results are to be found, it is very difficult to draw any relationship between the two, which rather pulls the rug out from under the "fewer guns= less gun crime" argument.

 

I don't pretend to have the answers - I do think that while the UK system is a very long way from being perfect, it is, perhaps closer than either of the above two.

 

What does Iceland do?

(Edit, to forestall facetious comments: apart from better than England at football )

Edited January 7, 2017 by CaptainBeaky

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Made me laugh too when you consider where Brownkng and Miroku guns are made.

 

There is something really wrong with the BBC they aleays manage to put a predudice in any reportong they do.

I just think they are lazy.

 

I disagree, it is not laziness.

 

it is a BBC fault that they all seem to follow in much the same way that they present farming and the country lifestyle as all fluffy in their weekly Countryfile programme.

[Stonepark]

 

What does Iceland do?

(Edit, to forestall facetious comments: apart from better than England at football )

 

 

Suicide rate is over twice as high as UK, Japans is over 3 times as high.

 

Somehow I don't think their societies are quite as healthy or well balanced as presented by the BBC.

[hodge911]

What a load of tosh...that unfortunately some people will read and take as gospel

[CaptainBeaky]

 

 

Suicide rate is over twice as high as UK, Japans is over 3 times as high.

 

Somehow I don't think their societies are quite as healthy or well balanced as presented by the BBC.

Compare suicide rates for other Northern nations like Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland - all higher than the UK, IIRC, but closely correlated with with winter day lengths. Japan's high suicide rate is more to do with a highly pressured society, with very high expectation of conformity to societal norms.

[Danger-Mouse]

Recently I watched a program about underground mixed martial arts fights in Japan. A lot of the participants were gang members. They weren't traditional Yakuza, they disliked the hierarchical sytem of the Yakuza and preferred their own system of all being equal.

 

Talking with one of the gang members the interviewer asked about guns. The gang member said they didn't use guns, they were too hard to acquire and in any case would bring too much trouble from the police.

 

"So what do you use?" asked the interviewer.

 

The gang member went over to his car, opened the boot and showed the interviewer a truly impressive collection of knives, swords and hatchets.

 

"Can you show me something you've used against another gang?" said the interviewer.

 

"No" said the ganger "Once it's been used it's thrown away because I don't want any connection to the crime. These are all new."

 

So, gun crime reduced by stricter laws, yes. Violent crime reduced by the same laws, no not really.

 

In the USA of course we see that guns being freely available leads to larger numbers of killings. But many of these killings are gang vs gang. In fact around 80% of shootings (not including statistics for suicides) are gang related. The problem then would appear to be gang culture rather than the guns themselves. Remove gangs from the equation and although numbers would still be unacceptably high compared to the UK the figures drop significantly.

[HDAV]

Remove gang figures from the U.K. and they too drop significantly there is a better correlation between drug consumption and firearms crimes than between firearms ownership and firearms crime.....

Look at the stats for homicide and gun ownership in other developed nations Canada Australia Germany etc

[moondoggy]

I wonder how many deaths there are by samurai sword?

[Danger-Mouse]

I wonder how many deaths there are by samurai sword?

 

Probably not that many . . .

 

"Ordinary citizens in Japan have the right to own Japanese-made blades that are registered with the Nihon Token Kai (Japanese Sword Association). These swords must exhibit historical or cultural significance. A certificate of authenticity and ownership permit are necessary. In Japan, sword smiths are allowed to produce only two swords a month as cultural artifacts. Each sword smith’s work is evaluated and rated by the token kai, and the prices are then adjusted. Unlicensed swords or those made by unlicensed smiths are confiscated, and the owner may be charged with possession of an illegal weapon."

[Savhmr]

We all know that the Beeb is run by a bunch of PC liberal lefty feminist ignoramuses these days so their biased reporting comes as no surprise. The fact remains that in the UK, those reported gun deaths would remain just the same even if we adopted the Japanese system, because a vast majority are from illegal gun crime, not from law abiding citizens.

 

If those stats were run again, this time reporting fairly on deaths caused by legal gun owners, I rather suspect that we'd be similar to Japan which proves that our present gun controls are more than sufficient.

[bluesj]

I saw on field sports Britain that the Japanese government are trying to encourage people to take up shooting to deal with the deer and boar problems they have

[Paul1440]

I think too that their obssesive PC agenda they miss represent facts.

 

In the past I bought the argument that as a non commercial non political( really!!) organisation they had a role to play.

I now think it should be broken up and left to stand on it's own 2 feet financially and if it fails then tough.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Paul1440

[Savhmr]

What the Beeb miss completely (besides the distinction between crimes committed with illegally held weapons as opposed to legally held firearms) is that Japan, post war, had a completely different culture where effectively, the nation was de-armed as part of the political reforms post surrender. They were prohibited from forming an armed service(s) and their citizens prohibited from weapons ownership. As the years passed, with further reforms, legal gun ownership was reintroduced BUT with some of the strictest gun controls on the planet. This is a far cry from the culture here in the West where politically and culturally, we started from a very different position.

 

The Beeb, as per usual, use whatever statistics they have to suit their own purposes and also continue to either base conclusions on assumption (the lowest form of journalism), or else deliberately and knowingly report out of context to influence public opinion. It really is beyond a joke and about time that they were properly investigated and brought bang to rights by the controlling watchdog. We, as licence payers, are paying for them to broadcast their deceptions to suit their own twisted agendas.

 

For anyone interested, the BBC are trying in their own twisted way to manufacture impetus behind a movement to anti-socialise gun ownership within the UK.

 

The facts about Japan are that gun ownership has largely been illegal since 1971, with small arms ownership more than tightly controlled. Handguns are banned completely and small arms (small and large calibre rifles) have been illegal to trade in (ie you cannot buy or sell them legally) since 1971. The only exception is for pre-existing owners of rifles who must face 3 yearly licensing and testing. Once they die, their heirs are required by law to hand in their firearms or face prosecution, and the penalties are severe. For just holding an illegally held rifle in Japan, you can face up to 10 years in prison, and there are separate penalties for possession of illegally held ammunition and for firing a firearm without legal authority. You can buy and sell an air rifle or shotgun with a licence but the licencing conditions are onerous, as are the testing requirements.

 

The big difference between Japan an Europe is that Japan started with the premise that no-one was permitted to own firearms.

 

Their laws started in 1958, and the 1958 JFA states that "No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or sword, or swords", later expanding the Act to permit certain exclusions.

 

Viewed correctly in this light, the BBC article is actually quite malicious in intent for mis-representing the facts by trying to compare "gun controls" on a level playing field, when one never existed.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Savhmr

[The Mighty Prawn]

For anyone interested, the BBC are trying in their own twisted way to manufacture impetus behind a movement to anti-socialise gun ownership within the UK.

 

What have you based this statement on? Does it need the words 'in my opinion'?

 

I work for BBC so try to stay out of the BBC bashing that goes on here, but rather like the police bashing threads that seem to have become common place it seems many of you have become so rabid in your opinions that you read agenda where there is none. Yes countryfile etc don't show the countryside the way many country folk would like it, but bake off upsets the bakers, strictly upsets the dancers, pretty much any programme cannot cover all views and tries to show balance or remain impartial.

 

If you would all prefer an entirely Murdoch run media then crack on, he is obviously never agenda driven or biased so you will have nothing to moan about there!

[Savhmr]

What have you based this statement on? Does it need the words 'in my opinion'?

 

I work for BBC so try to stay out of the BBC bashing that goes on here, but rather like the police bashing threads that seem to have become common place it seems many of you have become so rabid in your opinions that you read agenda where there is none. Yes countryfile etc don't show the countryside the way many country folk would like it, but bake off upsets the bakers, strictly upsets the dancers, pretty much any programme cannot cover all views and tries to show balance or remain impartial.

 

If you would all prefer an entirely Murdoch run media then crack on, he is obviously never agenda driven or biased so you will have nothing to moan about there!

 

Yes, it is "imho"..I thought that was obvious without having to state it. Sorry, but I couldn't give a monkeys if you work for them or not. I find much of their reporting biased, misleading or poorly researched in the extreme and am fed up to my back teeth with their continued support of people like Packham. This is not a personal attack on you but we're entitled to our opinions. I have a pretty low regard for much of the media in its current state, much as I do for our current crop of politicians.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Savhmr

[TIGHTCHOKE]

What have you based this statement on? Does it need the words 'in my opinion'?

 

I work for BBC so try to stay out of the BBC bashing that goes on here, but rather like the police bashing threads that seem to have become common place it seems many of you have become so rabid in your opinions that you read agenda where there is none. Yes countryfile etc don't show the countryside the way many country folk would like it, but bake off upsets the bakers, strictly upsets the dancers, pretty much any programme cannot cover all views and tries to show balance or remain impartial.

 

If you would all prefer an entirely Murdoch run media then crack on, he is obviously never agenda driven or biased so you will have nothing to moan about there!

 

Okay, so you work for the BBC, it used to be a paragon of good taste, reliable reporting and politically inert. It would be nice if it could return to those ways.

 

It will never happen!