wandringstar Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 what is murica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 You're not sure what I'm getting at here ? Not sure I can put it any simpler, Trump/Farrage/other far rights exploit fear and the easiest targets are usually the immigrants, all the easier to steal the billions and hide them away in untaxable havens when yooose all up in arms over ferinners. We are all immigrants! What a simplistic way of looking at it! Trumps from immigrant stock ,as are his wives,Farage is 3rd or 4th gen immigrant,the whole of the UK has a mix of various Skandi and European stock,not to mention Indian and African heritage to the 5 th or 6 th generation. The US is built upon immigrants of nearly every denomination. Stop generalising what is in effect a security issue by making us all seem xenophobic,its pathetic and boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 We are all immigrants! What a simplistic way of looking at it! Trumps from immigrant stock ,as are his wives,Farage is 3rd or 4th gen immigrant,the whole of the UK has a mix of various Skandi and European stock,not to mention Indian and African heritage to the 5 th or 6 th generation. The US is built upon immigrants of nearly every denomination. Stop generalising what is in effect a security issue by making us all seem xenophobic,its pathetic and boring. I'll stop generalising if you will. Trust me I've been bored by yooose argument for decades so cheer up this thread will soon be over and you can get de-bored. Somebody tell wandringstar what yooose means at the same time as murica. Security issue my ................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) The Jewish comparison is simple. Hitler incited hatred against the Jews to unite the country behind him. Trump is inciting hatred against Muslims to unite the country behind him. Forget the causes adn rationale it is the same tactics. As for the ISIS bombing London issue; let's not forget that ISIS are also bombing Muslim cities and killing Muslims. There is a vast difference between Islam and Fundamentalist Islamists. To condemn all Muslims for the actions of a few is short sighted. It is like saying that all Millwall fans are violent or that all Leeds fans hate Man Utd. Only one of those is true. Edited January 31, 2017 by UKPoacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Muslims are individuals, most ME folk aren't Muslim in the context that you seem to believe. I have said this before but the reason they're all lumped together as Muslims is because it makes demonisation and branding easier, they don't refer to you as Christians. The truth - albeit unpalatable to some. UK Poacher - I trust we are talking Millwall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I think we are in fact seeing the polar opposite. Brexit, Trump etc is the last stand of those who have become outdated and irrelevant and can't bear the sight of progress. Not a fan of Democracy then? Trump voted in and Brexiit voted out? These scenarios will have to play out to the angst of some who obviously deny the power of the people at the ballot box? Do I care? Nope! Guess I'm outdated and irrelevant then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'll stop generalising if you will. Trust me I've been bored by yooose argument for decades so cheer up this thread will soon be over and you can get de-bored. Somebody tell wandringstar what yooose means at the same time as murica. Security issue my ................ Whatever the reason for the order,security issues are the official reason,if you want to drift into the realms of conspiracy thats fine,I like conspiracy What I dont like is when people take a stand on an individual or policy just because they dont like that person or what they stand for. Its narrow minded and helps no one understand the issues. The Jewish comparison is simple. Hitler incited hatred against the Jews to unite the country behind him. Trump is inciting hatred against Muslims to unite the country behind him. Forget the causes adn rationale it is the same tactics. As for the ISIS bombing London issue; let's not forget that ISIS are also bombing Muslim cities and killing Muslims. There is a vast difference between Islam and Fundamentalist Islamists. To condemn all Muslims for the actions of a few is short sighted. It is like saying that all Millwall fans are violent or that all Leeds fans hate Man Utd. Only one of those is true. I think the Jewish comparison is distasteful and above all wrong,when Obama did the original list ,nothing was said,but then ,he is a man of colour ,so cannot possibly be racist. Like I said,if London was heavily hit ,with large loss of life,the bleaters would melt into the shadows. Would you relax security on our borders then ? There is after all ,only a few bad men out there .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 We are all immigrants! What a simplistic way of looking at it! Trumps from immigrant stock ,as are his wives,Farage is 3rd or 4th gen immigrant,the whole of the UK has a mix of various Skandi and European stock,not to mention Indian and African heritage to the 5 th or 6 th generation. The US is built upon immigrants of nearly every denomination. Stop generalising what is in effect a security issue by making us all seem xenophobic,its pathetic and boring. +1 I'm no fan of trump or Clinton, but it's getting old the constant efforts of the saw loser brigade to try and tarnish anyone who didn't vote the way they did as racist, xenophobic, thick, naive, uneducated, ect, ect, ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) What about the Mexicans? Why isn't anyone jumping up and down about that? Why, when the Trump administration place a temporary ban on people, regardless of faith (yes, christians from those countries are currently restricted from entry too) from a set number of countries did all the usual suspects start getting so exercised? The same administration wants to build a 6 foot wall across a continent! We didn't get a petition on this did we? I wonder why the same people that feel so incensed by a decision that affects one set of people didn't get so bothered when the same rhetoric was used against another? It's almost like it's, for want of a better word, fashionable to have a favourable bias toward anything that involves muslims. If anyone is being treated 'like a Jew' in 'nazi Germany' and being blamed for the destruction of a once great economic power it's the poor bloody Mexicans! Edited January 31, 2017 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Whatever the reason for the order,security issues are the official reason,if you want to drift into the realms of conspiracy thats fine,I like conspiracy What I dont like is when people take a stand on an individual or policy just because they dont like that person or what they stand for. Its narrow minded and helps no one understand the issues. I think the Jewish comparison is distasteful and above all wrong,when Obama did the original list ,nothing was said,but then ,he is a man of colour ,so cannot possibly be racist. Like I said,if London was heavily hit ,with large loss of life,the bleaters would melt into the shadows. Would you relax security on our borders then ? There is after all ,only a few bad men out there .... The Jewish comparison only becomes distasteful when the situation latterly developed. In the early days of Hitler's ambitions he used the Jews as scapegoats just as Trump is using Muslims. At the present time the comparison is fair. And don't forget that Trump promised that he would create a Muslim Register. That is just the way is happened in the thirties. Second point; London already has been hit. 7/7bombings - remember that? The bombers came from the Islamic state of Leeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Americans were not that concerned about terrorism until it came to their door, lots of money arms and support for Irish terrorists came from America. As for Trump being tough on terror he was happy to attend a fund rising event for shin fein. Gerry Adams pressed to reveal if Donald Trump was Sinn ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The Jewish comparison only becomes distasteful when the situation latterly developed. In the early days of Hitler's ambitions he used the Jews as scapegoats just as Trump is using Muslims. At the present time the comparison is fair. And don't forget that Trump promised that he would create a Muslim Register. That is just the way is happened in the thirties. Second point; London already has been hit. 7/7bombings - remember that? The bombers came from the Islamic state of Leeds. You and I usually on the same sort of page on these sort of things,so Im a little perplexed with this Trump is not using Muslims as the yardstick,he has put a restriction on countries,yes it does seem a little unfair that some of the worst ones escaped the list. But I think hes testing the water if anything. Do you think Muslims are victimised in the states ,or here ? My ex wifes (Pakistani Muslim) family live in the states,in Dallas no less,the hive of everything Trumpish! and live very well and without issue,her cousin is a CEO at Verizon and came to the States from Pakistan with the clothes on his back. He loves Murica ! has a Texan wife and has imported many family members from back home. I would think that if victimisation was rearing its ugly head,the media would be over it like a rash ! But it seems strangely silent on this , as it is on the issue of the 20-30 million Mexicans doing menial labour ,and classed as second class citizens. So I do find the comparison between Jews and Muslims perplexing. When I hear people say 'That Trump ,hes going to start WW3,hes a racist,misogynist ,ladybit grabber,bad person all round '!' I say 'How do YOU know ?' 'Saw it on telly,papers ect' Seems funny to me how he never got bad press when he wasnt a presidential contender,no one mentioned his grabbing technique on the US version of the apprentice? And he certainly didnt have to pay anyone off for sexual assault allegations ,like the spouse of some other candidates. Funny that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) i am convinced that what you saw, is what happened, do i think people knew other than the perpetrators? no, i think it was an example of a trusting America, with very lax security that got targeted, a simple thing like locked and armoured cockpit doors would have stopped it. i have heard every conspiracy ripped apart, and i was satisfied with the explanation. Going back to the conspiracy side of things, I call ball **** on all of the debunked **** and government cover ups. I'm a military pilot, and have been a Navigator for the last 7 years with nearly 1400 hours flying and 5 Op tours, and I could not do what they apparently did with those aircraft that day. It's impossible fact! I am now learning to fly again in a basic PPL equivalent aircraft and there are multiple Saudi Military pilots I train with, and when I say they are incapable of carrying this out I really mean it, you just have to trust me on that one. I train with the cleaver ones not the idiots that want to blow themselves up. I can debunk every debunker out there with hard facts about aviation/aerodynamics/stalling speeds/757 handling. Just to name a few....They were able to navigate 757s accurately with an FMS (flight management system) and fly off radar undetected by ATC, for over 40 mins towards the world's most heavily defended areas.... bull ****. I know how ATC operate and I know the procedures for protecting airspace, this would never have happened. The CVR (cockpit voice recorders) and data recorder information was never released??? Really?? Destroyed in the crash??? Really? They sit in the tail and are designed to withstand crashes and high Temps but the Pentagon one was destroyed.?! OK but they found the hijackers passport on the ground..... what the actual..... I can go on for hours! But I'm telling you that the moment you veer off track in class A controlled airspace by 3 degrees under radar control ATC are on you like a tramp on chips! The pilots would have set an IFF code 7500, this is hijack code and every man and his dog would be in the air within minutes. However the USA only had two F15s available that day for QRA??? The USA has more stealth F22 Raptors in their national guard than we have aircraft total!!! They knew what was going down. The Saudis I train with take 3 times as long to train to fly basic aircraft due to their language barrier and skill set, they would be incapable of navigating using complicated systems on board a 757, they would have had to have used visual techniques or mastered the FMS and reprogram the flight data to utilise this feature, something after 50 hours on a Cessna would be impossible. The guys I train with get lost when they are 40 miles away from the airfield. CCTV Of the pentagon?? 1 camera from the barrier?? My local tesco has more cameras than that! Just think logically about the whole scenario! It's hoop! 300 passengers on a plane and Military trained pilots gave up control to a couple of bell whackers with Stanley knives?!?! Hmm and then flew undetected from US Air Traffic Control and the Military Radar Units 4 Passenger Airliners accurately off course for over 40 minutes navigating to new York and the pentagon with complicated systems and flying an 8000ft decending spiral turn at the correct speed without stalling and causing no damage to the obstructions in the foreground and hitting the pentagon exactly on the forward facing side of the building, when they couldn't even land a Cessna...... it's been tried by airline pilots with 5000 hours and they reject the theory. I could go on but I have a feeling we may not see the air crash investigation tv show on any of these crashes any time soon. Edited January 31, 2017 by Whatmuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) I could do that. Edited January 31, 2017 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 You and I usually on the same sort of page on these sort of things,so Im a little perplexed with this Trump is not using Muslims as the yardstick,he has put a restriction on countries,yes it does seem a little unfair that some of the worst ones escaped the list. But I think hes testing the water if anything. Do you think Muslims are victimised in the states ,or here ? My ex wifes (Pakistani Muslim) family live in the states,in Dallas no less,the hive of everything Trumpish! and live very well and without issue,her cousin is a CEO at Verizon and came to the States from Pakistan with the clothes on his back. He loves Murica ! has a Texan wife and has imported many family members from back home. I would think that if victimisation was rearing its ugly head,the media would be over it like a rash ! But it seems strangely silent on this , as it is on the issue of the 20-30 million Mexicans doing menial labour ,and classed as second class citizens. So I do find the comparison between Jews and Muslims perplexing. When I hear people say 'That Trump ,hes going to start WW3,hes a racist,misogynist ,ladybit grabber,bad person all round '!' I say 'How do YOU know ?' 'Saw it on telly,papers ect' Seems funny to me how he never got bad press when he wasnt a presidential contender,no one mentioned his grabbing technique on the US version of the apprentice? And he certainly didnt have to pay anyone off for sexual assault allegations ,like the spouse of some other candidates. Funny that.. Yep. The NHS is full of Muslims, as are many cities in the UK. They must be sleeping terrorists. Trump's policy to stop / pause all immigration from predominantly Muslim countries combined with his 'America First' policy and the Mexico border wall demonstrates the direction that he intends taking America. Obama's temporary ban on people travelling from one country was prompted by a small terrorist cell being found in the States. It did not include those already vetted, unlike Trump's much more widespread and indiscriminate ban. And there has been no recent incident to prompt the ban. It was broadcast and planned years ago. Regards the Clintons; if the Democrats had fielded anyone but Clinton Trump would never have been voted in and would still be kicking his teddies around the nursery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Americans were not that concerned about terrorism until it came to their door, lots of money arms and support for Irish terrorists came from America. As for Trump being tough on terror he was happy to attend a fund rising event for shin fein. Gerry Adams pressed to reveal if Donald Trump was Sinn ... A point I think is worth repeating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 And now I find out that Israelis are banned from 16 countries. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844 This one is up to 113,000 so far! It was only started yesterday and is climbing rapidly. I'm not holding my breath but I'll see if the BBC 'advertises' it like they did the ban petition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Going back to the conspiracy side of things, I call ball **** on all of the debunked **** and government cover ups. I'm a military pilot, and have been a Navigator for the last 7 years with nearly 1400 hours flying and 5 Op tours, and I could not do what they apparently did with those aircraft that day. It's impossible fact! I am now learning to fly again in a basic PPL equivalent aircraft and there are multiple Saudi Military pilots I train with, and when I say they are incapable of carrying this out I really mean it, you just have to trust me on that one. I train with the cleaver ones not the idiots that want to blow themselves up. I can debunk every debunker out there with hard facts about aviation/aerodynamics/stalling speeds/757 handling. Just to name a few.... They were able to navigate 757s accurately with an FMS (flight management system) and fly off radar undetected by ATC, for over 40 mins towards the world's most heavily defended areas.... bull ****. I know how ATC operate and I know the procedures for protecting airspace, this would never have happened. The CVR (cockpit voice recorders) and data recorder information was never released??? Really?? Destroyed in the crash??? Really? They sit in the tail and are designed to withstand crashes and high Temps but the Pentagon one was destroyed.?! OK but they found the hijackers passport on the ground..... what the actual..... I can go on for hours! But I'm telling you that the moment you veer off track in class A controlled airspace by 3 degrees under radar control ATC are on you like a tramp on chips! The pilots would have set an IFF code 7500, this is hijack code and every man and his dog would be in the air within minutes. However the USA only had two F15s available that day for QRA??? The USA has more stealth F22 Raptors in their national guard than we have aircraft total!!! They knew what was going down. The Saudis I train with take 3 times as long to train to fly basic aircraft due to their language barrier and skill set, they would be incapable of navigating using complicated systems on board a 757, they would have had to have used visual techniques or mastered the FMS and reprogram the flight data to utilise this feature, something after 50 hours on a Cessna would be impossible. The guys I train with get lost when they are 40 miles away from the airfield. CCTV Of the pentagon?? 1 camera from the barrier?? My local tesco has more cameras than that! Just think logically about the whole scenario! It's hoop! 300 passengers on a plane and Military trained pilots gave up control to a couple of bell whackers with Stanley knives?!?! Hmm and then flew undetected from US Air Traffic Control and the Military Radar Units 4 Passenger Airliners accurately off course for over 40 minutes navigating to new York and the pentagon with complicated systems and flying an 8000ft decending spiral turn at the correct speed without stalling and causing no damage to the obstructions in the foreground and hitting the pentagon exactly on the forward facing side of the building, when they couldn't even land a Cessna...... it's been tried by airline pilots with 5000 hours and they reject the theory. I could go on but I have a feeling we may not see the air crash investigation tv show on any of these crashes any time soon. I think the danger of your post is that someone who really is a pilot and has around 10,000 hrs on the type in question, might casually read your Walter Mitty esque claims and spit his tea all over the keyboard laughing. Right, I'm off to find a cloth... Edited January 31, 2017 by achosenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Going back to the conspiracy side of things, I call ball **** on all of the debunked **** and government cover ups. I'm a military pilot, and have been a Navigator for the last 7 years with nearly 1400 hours flying and 5 Op tours, and I could not do what they apparently did with those aircraft that day. It's impossible fact! I am now learning to fly again in a basic PPL equivalent aircraft and there are multiple Saudi Military pilots I train with, and when I say they are incapable of carrying this out I really mean it, you just have to trust me on that one. I train with the cleaver ones not the idiots that want to blow themselves up. I can debunk every debunker out there with hard facts about aviation/aerodynamics/stalling speeds/757 handling. Just to name a few.... They were able to navigate 757s accurately with an FMS (flight management system) and fly off radar undetected by ATC, for over 40 mins towards the world's most heavily defended areas.... bull ****. I know how ATC operate and I know the procedures for protecting airspace, this would never have happened. The CVR (cockpit voice recorders) and data recorder information was never released??? Really?? Destroyed in the crash??? Really? They sit in the tail and are designed to withstand crashes and high Temps but the Pentagon one was destroyed.?! OK but they found the hijackers passport on the ground..... what the actual..... I can go on for hours! But I'm telling you that the moment you veer off track in class A controlled airspace by 3 degrees under radar control ATC are on you like a tramp on chips! The pilots would have set an IFF code 7500, this is hijack code and every man and his dog would be in the air within minutes. However the USA only had two F15s available that day for QRA??? The USA has more stealth F22 Raptors in their national guard than we have aircraft total!!! They knew what was going down. The Saudis I train with take 3 times as long to train to fly basic aircraft due to their language barrier and skill set, they would be incapable of navigating using complicated systems on board a 757, they would have had to have used visual techniques or mastered the FMS and reprogram the flight data to utilise this feature, something after 50 hours on a Cessna would be impossible. The guys I train with get lost when they are 40 miles away from the airfield. CCTV Of the pentagon?? 1 camera from the barrier?? My local tesco has more cameras than that! Just think logically about the whole scenario! It's hoop! 300 passengers on a plane and Military trained pilots gave up control to a couple of bell whackers with Stanley knives?!?! Hmm and then flew undetected from US Air Traffic Control and the Military Radar Units 4 Passenger Airliners accurately off course for over 40 minutes navigating to new York and the pentagon with complicated systems and flying an 8000ft decending spiral turn at the correct speed without stalling and causing no damage to the obstructions in the foreground and hitting the pentagon exactly on the forward facing side of the building, when they couldn't even land a Cessna...... it's been tried by airline pilots with 5000 hours and they reject the theory. I could go on but I have a feeling we may not see the air crash investigation tv show on any of these crashes any time soon. Wow. There are indeed terrorists amongst us but they may be much closer than you think. 911 was the basis of what your and my world has come to be defined by, very possibly our children and grand children will be living with the consequences. Wasn't it David Cameron who even hinted that any conspiracy theorists should just be jailed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I think the danger of your post is that someone who really is a pilot and has around 10,000 hrs on the type in question, might casually read your Walter Mitty esque claims and spit his tea all over the keyboard laughing. Right, I'm off to find a cloth... Walter Mitty esque??? Explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The thing I find most worrying about Trump is that he seems totally unaware that he is "off the Page". He believes he can just do what ever he likes, no procedures, no protocols, no boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The thing I find most worrying about Trump is that he seems totally unaware that he is "off the Page". He believes he can just do what ever he likes, no procedures, no protocols, no boundaries. That's exactly what I like about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Walter Mitty esque??? Explain I wouldn't know where to start. Your post is so full of errors and ignorance it's easier to put it firmly in the tin foil hat wearing camp and get on with life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 The thing I find most worrying about Trump is that he seems totally unaware that he is "off the Page". He believes he can just do what ever he likes, no procedures, no protocols, no boundaries. I mentioned this earlier. He's like a spoilt brat who's never had anyone refuse him anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I think I said, several times already, bat **** crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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